Debate on Legitimacy of Astralburning

[tom]

who knows.

[Spider-Dan]

For anyone suggesting its an exploit of any kind:

-Utilization of an added feature within the game by its developer for its intended purpose without altering the feature in any way/shape/form is not an exploit.

So then, how is disbanding an alliance in Salvage an exploit? Did the players somehow alter /acmd leave?

The only people who have the standing to say what the "intended purpose" of ANYTHING is are the developers themselves, period. If you think otherwise, you are fooling only yourself. And that's the rub; using anything in a manner inconsistent with it's intended use is an exploit. What's the "intended use"? Who the f*ck knows?

P.S. Arguments that "this is legit because SMN can't get merit parties" are no different than "duping is OK because Salvage drop rates suck." If it is deemed legitimate, merit invites and drop rates have nothing to do with it.

[The Blackrose]

Moved the entire debate into its own thread. Just a reminder to keep it civil please.

[urat]

So then, how is disbanding an alliance in Salvage an exploit? Did the players somehow alter /acmd leave?

>_>;

Well in that case, pos hacking isn't an exploit ya'll, its SE's fault they didnt make pos server side.

Fuck that, dupe trick on mog house isnt an exploit either! SE's fault they made that our side too (briefly)

And mass spamming the npc in tavnazia to make 2 trillion gil in a day? Naw thats legit too, SEs fault.

Do you understand what an exploit is? Its using a problem in a system for personal gain.

Unless your trying to say the dev team purposfully wrote the script so that disbanding and reforming alliance duped the items... Then you'd just be retarded.

[Tirgen]

40-50k an hour? you are on crack.

actually take that back. expwatch tells me I am getting 3451.21k per hour, then decreases exponentially every second afterwards until it levels out between 10 and 20k

It fluctuates based on how quickly you can reset. and that mobs are 16 minute respawn, so you are limited to no more than 4 flows an hour, assuming you reset and are ready to pull as soon as repops.

All things considered, this exp method only works efficently for groups that have a large pool of support chars (the rule of thumb I use is 5 real people, and 20ish accounts). And, the exp is shit on by an average merit party. Tortise and the hare, and the hare is throttled by repops and a 4/6 chance your 2hour reset will fail, while bird repop constantly and dine in 15 seconds

[Airenn]

40-50k an hour? you are on crack.

actually take that back. expwatch tells me I am getting 3451.21k per hour, then decreases exponentially every second afterwards until it levels out between 10 and 20k

It fluctuates based on how quickly you can reset. and that mobs are 16 minute respawn, so you are limited to no more than 4 flows an hour, assuming you reset and are ready to pull as soon as repops.

All things considered, this exp method only works efficently for groups that have a large pool of support chars (the rule of thumb I use is 5 real people, and 20ish accounts). And, the exp is shit on by an average merit party. Tortise and the hare, and the hare is throttled by repops and a 4/6 chance your 2hour reset will fail, while bird repop constantly and dine in 15 seconds

/sigh. Do the math on this one:

5 runs, took 3 hours, average 35k of exp per run.

I'll do it for you: Over 170k in 3 hours=56k per hour. Hell, even if our pullers were slow/less pullers, it'd take a max of 4 hours to do that and that'd still be umm... Hmmm. 170k in 4 hours=42.5k per hour.

[Spider-Dan]

>_>;

Well in that case, pos hacking isn't an exploit ya'll, its SE's fault they didnt make pos server side.

And how do you POS hack without third-party tool?

Fuck that, dupe trick on mog house isnt an exploit either! SE's fault they made that our side too (briefly)

Don't know what you're referring to here... if it was something accomplished using normal in-game commands, then yes, it is SE's fault.

And mass spamming the npc in tavnazia to make 2 trillion gil in a day? Naw thats legit too, SEs fault.

This one is quite clearly SE's fault for setting an item's resale value for more than its sale value. Is buying/selling items from NPCs not a normal action? Or does it only become an exploit when Squenix sets the gil values such that you can make money doing it?

Do you understand what an exploit is? Its using a problem in a system for personal gain.

If /acmd leave can be considered an exploit, then /pet "Diamond Dust" <t> on a monster that is attacking someone outside of your party/alliance can also be considered an exploit.

Are you seriously going to argue that killing more mobs than the game is capable of displaying almost instantly is an intended feature?

[Sylvrdragon]

Are you seriously going to argue that killing more mobs than the game is capable of displaying almost instantly is an intended feature?

If Besieged mobs can do it, then god damnit, so can I.

[Tomiko]

If Besieged mobs can do it, then god damnit, so can I.

Best answer to that question. lol

[Hapernack]

If Besieged mobs can do it, then god damnit, so can I.

This wins.

[Septimus]

Fixed this for you, I love having a mostly worthless 2hr at 75 right now

Instead, Astral Flow should be useless at all levels!

Everyone can't do this. Only summoners. w.

Thank goodness that not everyone can be a Summoner. I mean, that would require some of ability to change your jobs, and we all know that FFXI doesn't have anything like that.

[Day]

Well that requires unlocking the job first.

(Notice the "w" that was intended as sarcasm, but whatever.)

[Airenn]

I'd like to say something that most may not know.

1-- The pull is about 150 monsters on a tank/character.

2-- FFXI can only support a screen of 50 mobs. I.E. You only see 50 at a time. Yes, a lot, but only that.

3-- That being said, when one of the SMN runs in to AF, AF only hits whatever mobs the screen is showing at that time. NOT ALL OF THEM.

The way it works is that 3 SMNs AF and on the third AF usually, THOSE 50 mobs are dying/close to dying. It takes all 3 BPS from all 3 SMNs to kill most of the entire train because of this fact.

Someone mentioned earlier AF killing a bunch of mobs that you can't even see. Thish is, technically, untrue.

[Cloudius]

^ I can target and attack mobs I can't see all the time, it's called /assist!

[Max™]

Ya know, it isn't just summoners.

Person with a job that can pull a zone + an unburned 2hr.
Person with a job that can pull a zone + an unburned 2hr.
Smn x 4.

First person pulls the zone while second person leeches.
They try to reset, if they fail, leech tries to reset, 2 shots at in group reset with no shouting/finding help beats nothing, then they swap places, etc.

It isn't as nice as having an LS at your beck and call to PL you to 75 in a couple days, but at least you could contribute.


It just occurs to me that I could pretty easily pull a zone on War, but would probably prefer to re-lock Smn (which I only unlocked on a lark one day years ago) than ever level it.

Course, you could also just level Smn to 13 with Campaign ops.

[Okan]

The only thing I can see coming about this is if you become a complete dick and don't really "share" with other players. Besides, most parties in that area are after worms, if not after the worms, they are after the jellies. Leave those alone and you're golden.

Also, next patch they'll find a bug that allowed someone to level up SMN and promptly ban anyone with a SMN above level 1. The biggest reason I brought this up is because SMN is probably the worst job to ever attempt to level. It can't DD as good as a BLM or heal as good as a WHM so no one ever invites them (or at least that was the case 3 years ago). You were stuck trying to solo bombs or some crap to try and get up in levels.

I'm not going to go spouting awesome Neosutra like quotes with "UR STUPID FOR THINK U'LL EVER GET BANNED" and while I doubt they'll ban anyone for doing this, the only thing I will clearing state right now is that you* are actually stupid for thinking that they DON'T know about this. [*= For those who seem to think the SE is clueless. If the Salvage incident showed us anything is that they do know about these things, even if they are slow to react]. However, you are not duping items. The only thing you are doing is killing things in a fast-ish way. The really big things that they worried about was overall economy impact. This really doesn't impact that. In fact, this is about as fast at leveling as merits at 75 if done properly. The difference is you'll be level 13 in skill and spending hours standing outside Jueno summoning and dismissing your avatars. Hell, I leveled up to 47 legitimately and I am STILL not capped even though I used my avatars as much as possible.

[Nirokun!]

i read all the bitching about the exp accumulation, and i recall smns asking SE for an improved 2hr because blm has strong -ga spells that they can use back to back (assuming no death) while smn has to wait 2hrs between each AF (not BP.) SE always reasons that the smn 2hr BP is not weakened by the number of monsters it hits. SE totally supports AF'ing the shit out of the biggest waves of mobs :D

[Arthars]

i have GMed this 10 times, asking if this method is legit, just to make sure i dont get "Hitler-ed"

all GMs, including 2 SGM said that this method is Legit BUT YOU CANT COMPLAIN THE FOLLOWING:
1. you do not disrupt other's game play. If someone is lvling and u do this, hold their mob, you can have a chance to get GM-ed
2. you do not hold the monster there forever and dont kill, this can be considered as grief tactic if another player complain you, and if GM thinks "yea u held too long"
3. people is still able to claim mobs from you if they felt like doing so, ruining your XP

yes, if someone wanna steal your mobs, thats too bad.

and btw, when i did the 11th call, they told me something like "Sir, this is the 11th time you have called regarding this issue and i think we have addressed your query"

just 1 of those chat with a SGM from my SMN mule when i just started flowing, enjoy
http://mectradegroup.com/FFXI/EpicFlow.JPG

and btw, yagudo drink is sirious business
http://mectradegroup.com/FFXI/EpicFlow1.JPG

[Arthars]

40-50k an hour? you are on crack.

actually take that back. expwatch tells me I am getting 3451.21k per hour, then decreases exponentially every second afterwards until it levels out between 10 and 20k

I get 40k per hour w/o bands with 4 IDs

can go for 60k during besiged.

Broken? i will leave it to SE to decide

[Max™]

75 > 1 is fine huh... except you don't lose Exp below lvl 4... WHOOPS, ANOTHER GM WHO DOESN'T KNOW SOMETHING OBVIOUS TO MOST PLAYERS.