Absolute Virtue - Other Discussion

**donnie** · 2009-01-30 14:56

well the reason you might think it locks 2hrs or at least nerf it (in a sense he wouldnt do metoer during manafont or wont do combined 2hrs together), IS they didnt show at any video having meteor casted on them. It is still a speculation that they may have encountered metoer but didnt show it in the video but thats nearly impossible since meteor is the most devistating obstacle in the fight.

**ByeByeTasai** · 2009-01-30 14:59

Originally Posted by Hogie

To me though, this is in fact help full and no one is looking at it the right way. SE has told us over and over again, regen kill speed and location are a deciding factors of the fight. We ask about locking the 2h's and they look at us puzzled like wtf are you talking about? When i read what they tell us, im reading it as "If you want to be able to MANAGER AV to be able to kill him, you need to do certain things to get him in to a MANAGERABLE condition. Notice in the video how there is no reference to the amount of damage AV is doing or taking? Who is to say that once you get his Regen under control, that is the only time you can start to mirror 2h's and be able to get him under control?

fixed!

**Mojo** · 2009-01-30 15:21

Originally Posted by Cerealkiller_Hades

Mojo, when you decide you are no longer 6 and stop proclaiming "i know the secret, but i am not going to share" then you may speak again, otherwise, accept that you quit, and stop trolling forums to get your fix.

lol? My previous post was factual information aimed to clarify something that had come up. If you thought what I said before was a serious post, you clearly don't understand satire.

**Virtuous Saint** · 2009-01-30 19:47

Originally Posted by donnie

well the reason you might think it locks 2hrs or at least nerf it (in a sense he wouldnt do metoer during manafont or wont do combined 2hrs together), IS they didnt show at any video having meteor casted on them. It is still a speculation that they may have encountered metoer but didnt show it in the video but thats nearly impossible since meteor is the most devistating obstacle in the fight.

No the only reason you cannot kill AV with it having access to 2hrs is due to benediction. The only reason you could zerg AV down effectively was due to the changing of its AI at different %s, and because it can only use 2hr on a set timer which means it will only get generally 1 off during the zerg, and thus the chance of winning is incredibly high.

**donnie** · 2009-01-30 20:41

well true , its just that i find metoer is " the most" devistating since it wipes alliances out, even if you would say have pld fealty and everyone out of range it will hit you sooner or later.

having said that, ofcourse bendiction comes on top too but in a sense it doesnt wipe out your alliance. and in that case, we can add few more such as soul voice and samurai 2hr.

**fusionx** · 2009-02-02 07:20

Originally Posted by Virtuous Saint

Pet Food Alpha when asking at that stupid summit shit a while back asked sundi about AV he said something about taking 10+hr if you are lucky, and he said it has to do with the abilities he uses in how it can take that long, if it uses 2hrs you don't need to lock it will take much longer ect. you can lock the 2hrs because if you can't you cannot win the fight, that is the prominent factor in knowing whether or not you can.

We weren't at the summit (though i'd argue we deserve to go more than other premier sites). It was Ganiman from FFXIclopedia who was talking to Mochi and Sundi over dinner about AV. Sundi mentioned that "AV is about an 18 hour fight, maybe 9 or 10 if your lucky with its abilities" That was all that was mentioned. absolutely nothing was said about locking 2 hrs.

http://petfoodalpha.com/794/episode-...te-summit-2008

**Cog** · 2009-02-02 12:49

all speculation about 'locking' AV is speculation based on a glitch observed while AV was being killed using the 'wall method' iirc.
what we know for sure is that AV uses SP abilities (JAs players can access only every 2 hours) like TP abilities, but uses his aern TP moves as well. all monsters will auto-attack and follow their target until they have 100% TP, and then use a WS or ability. since AV has normal TP moves, we can guess that he has another scale that controls his SP ability usage. let's call it a Rage meter.
in theory, we want to keep this Rage as low as possible. we have a few tips from SE that we already know such as:
______________
killing 9 sets of pets at least during JoL to stop 50% of regen, possible other effects.
using element of day nukes only, to stop 50% of regen, possible other effects.
using 2-hour abilities somehow at the same time as AV, unknown effect.
______________
if you do these steps and successfully tank AV, chances are he will be rather docile. i theorize that using the correct elemental magic damage will lower his Rage meter, not to mention extra damage. also, it stands to reason that causing AV magic damage of the wrong element will increase his Rage meter.

my guess is that when the Rage is low, he will only use a single SP ability, or one that is easily avoided. when his Rage builds, if we are not careful, he will use combinations of SP abilities and things like Manafont.

**Ultimagi** · 2009-02-02 12:53

Originally Posted by Cog

AV uses SP abilities (JAs players can access only every 2 hours) like TP abilities

You're just making yourself looks stupid. He uses them on a timer, regardless of TP.

**Taint** · 2009-02-02 13:02

Originally Posted by Cog

all speculation about 'locking' AV is speculation based on a glitch observed while AV was being killed using the 'wall method' iirc.
what we know for sure is that AV uses SP abilities (JAs players can access only every 2 hours) like TP abilities, but uses his aern TP moves as well. all monsters will auto-attack and follow their target until they have 100% TP, and then use a WS or ability. since AV has normal TP moves, we can guess that he has another scale that controls his SP ability usage. let's call it a Rage meter.
in theory, we want to keep this Rage as low as possible. we have a few tips from SE that we already know such as:
______________
killing 9 sets of pets at least during JoL to stop 50% of regen, possible other effects.
using element of day nukes only, to stop 50% of regen, possible other effects.
using 2-hour abilities somehow at the same time as AV, unknown effect.
______________
if you do these steps and successfully tank AV, chances are he will be rather docile. i theorize that using the correct elemental magic damage will lower his Rage meter, not to mention extra damage. also, it stands to reason that causing AV magic damage of the wrong element will increase his Rage meter.

my guess is that when the Rage is low, he will only use a single SP ability, or one that is easily avoided. when his Rage builds, if we are not careful, he will use combinations of SP abilities and things like Manafont.

Maybe Players using their 2hrs reduces his "rage meter" which is why when AV usines a 2h in the video all the players spam their 2hrs to calm him down.

**Cog** · 2009-02-02 13:04

he still has the timer, lets just say he chooses what to use based on his Rage. i proposed that timer theory and i still think its true, but i have seen AV use back to back SPs and i think its possible they are programmed to be a combo.

**Hogie** · 2009-02-02 14:03

Originally Posted by Cog

he still has the timer, lets just say he chooses what to use based on his Rage. i proposed that timer theory and i still think its true, but i have seen AV use back to back SPs and i think its possible they are programmed to be a combo.

I totally agree i think his 2h's are linked together to be used in a chain like pattern. In the other thread i have proposed that i think if you use X action when AV uses X action, it will prevent other 2h's from activating.

Something else i was just thinking is that maybe the aern's around his area are the key to his 2h abilities? Killing sets of JoL pets trigger 50% loss on regen, nuking the element of the day trigger the other 50% lose, maybe killing the Aern's in the area trigger us being able to manage his 2h abilities?

**Virtuous Saint** · 2009-02-02 16:25

Originally Posted by Hogie

I totally agree i think his 2h's are linked together to be used in a chain like pattern. In the other thread i have proposed that i think if you use X action when AV uses X action, it will prevent other 2h's from activating.

Something else i was just thinking is that maybe the aern's around his area are the key to his 2h abilities? Killing sets of JoL pets trigger 50% loss on regen, nuking the element of the day trigger the other 50% lose, maybe killing the Aern's in the area trigger us being able to manage his 2h abilities?

Well I guess I can personally tell you this will not work, and has had absolutely no effect.

**Virtuous Saint** · 2009-02-02 16:34

Originally Posted by Cog

he still has the timer, lets just say he chooses what to use based on his Rage. i proposed that timer theory and i still think its true, but i have seen AV use back to back SPs and i think its possible they are programmed to be a combo.

Absolutely not, he uses random 2hrs after 45~70sec after his previous 2hr was used; if it is a duration 2hr, the timer starts directly after the 2hr effect wears off. We have tried nuking element of the day, and we have successfully tanked it through multiple manafonts, and others have done the exact same thing. We have ample amounts of information you could have read to make you rethink that idea. AV uses back-to-back 2hrs once it reaches bracelets mode (59%), not because its "rage meter" is off the charts.

My guess would be you have never fought AV, which is fine, but at least read the previous ten million threads to ensure your theory has not been tried, and proven not to work (please?).

**donnie** · 2009-02-02 17:07

I think i will give up on AV until later since the devolopers in the last interview said that there will be adjustment made to AV and PW to comply with the 2hr Limit. Meaning they know something is out of the line and its barely possible to kill in 2hrs as of now.

**Gtype954** · 2009-02-05 08:35

People say his 2 hrs are conpletely random and cannot be prevented but this is actually wrong.

-Manafont: Can not use Manfont when AVs health goes below 85%, He cannot use meteor without manafont up, he also cannot use chainspell under manafont. Meteor is light based not fire based. Use fealty, have you rdm tank macro all of his MDB gear. He might want to chainspell and cure bomb himself.
-Familiar: Cannot be used unless call wyvern has been used AND AVs pets are alive.
-Mijin Gakure: Cannot be used unless AVs pets are alive, and call wyvern needs to be used for them to be out.
-Astral Flow: cannot be used unless AVs wyverns are out.
-Call Wyvern: Nuke these down with BLM Party, but use it with the element that matches the day.
-Chainspell: Use Baraera as shown in the SE video to help lessen the damage. He cannot use chainspell with manafont up. Whm main needs to cast the baraera because he has the Barspell merits, the RSE body and the relic legs which ehhance the barspell further.
Tornado II can be absorbed by 1 shadow. A maximum of 10 ppl can absorb Ga spells. 1 shadow is equal to 1 person. 4 Tanks 3 shadows each = 12. The main tank might have 1 shadow up so they use 2 extra shadows just in case. Everyone is subbing ninja in the video, including the drg,sam,drk,rdm,pld and possibly the whm. AV can be shadowbound, he also uses draw-in however. Use rampart, use the relic gear to enhance ramparts duration by 45 seconds.
-Meiko Shi: Think he only uses this 2 hr when you feed him too much TP in a short amount of time, which goes with my theory that they aren't as random as we think. Either way, sentinal and reprisal with invincible if needed can survive this.
-Perfect Dodge: this is the perfect time, pun intended, to land you Tier I spells to lower AVs regen. Pay attention to the game change and change nukes. If you spam Tier I nukes, you won't pull hate and you can maximize your MP. AV doesn't take much Magic damage anyway, work your way up to tier IV.
- Invincible: Keep lowering that regen during this phase as well.
- Hundred Fists: Shadowbind if you can, Have sentinel ready and Reprisal. Sentinel should always be up if you have at least 3 pld tanks. Rdm tanks have very high def as well, they can take this abuse if they do it right. Invincible is you have to. Your reprisal spikes wont do much here, the spell is used so you can shield block a hell of alot more.
-Soul Voice: Have your C-legs ready, also when you see that he readies soulvoice, your tanks should macro in signet staffs instead, so when they get charmed you won't have to do anything to them. act like you are going to kite him to kill a few seconds before getting charmed, cause you will get charmed lol.
-Benediction: Believe he triggers this 2 hour when he has low health maybe 60% and lower from what I seen post-update. This is his killer 2 hour, this is the reason why he is unkillable, this is the 2 hour that will make you run out of time.... this 2 hour restores him over 85% which makes him able to use manafont Meteor again when you thought that phase was over... try mirroring this move with lots of Whms... try to lock this move somehow, try to prevent this move somehow. It is an instant, it cannot be stunned, it cannot be interuppted, it cannot be countered, none of your 2 hours or job abilities can counter it. Try to mirror this move, this is his trick. The gimmick of AV has to lie in this 2 hour. You will eventually lower his regen to a managable level... then you will get smacked with this move. It also seems to restore his 2 Regen potency to maximum. Mirror this move, wear torques when you mirror it, put on virtue stones when you mirror it, do whatever the hell you think you can to prevent this move. Is this 2 hour completely random from AV, or does it get triggered somehow similar to mijin,manafont,astralflow,and famlilar?

Our speed is wrong..... Why does the PLD use a 2 handed weapon.. instead of a shield, was this before shield mastery, before reprisal.. was it worth using a terra staff instead of a shield back in the day perhaps.. Or is this a clue, to the speed in which we have to fight it.

They defeated AV with 18 ppl. Seems like 6 were on AV at all times which is 1 party, while the rest supported. You see 22 ppl in the video 4 of which were camera men for the 4 different languages.

Like I said many times... Many Linkshells know how to deal with manafont and chainspell nowadays. Benediction is the ultimate killer, it also makes manafont return, and although linkshells can take 1 manafont and maybe 1 chainspell... they cannot take a barrage of them or a second wave of them under any circumstance.

**Ultimagi** · 2009-02-05 10:11

Oh my, where to begin.