Emergency Maintenance Zhayolm Remnants

[arshesney]

So tell me the difference between someone that logs out in that zone and someone who DCs in the zone. It's not like the duplication trick where it's clearly intentional.

None, they have prolly changed from checking for pathos on people to a simple "NO POP" flag to be set the instant any cell is used.

[Devek]

So tell me the difference between someone that logs out in that zone and someone who DCs in the zone. It's not like the duplication trick where it's clearly intentional.

Don't hate me, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here :D

The answer is.. what is the difference between splitting up an alliance and splitting up an alliance to obtain an item?

It wouldn't be hard to determine, from the logs, who accidentally DCs now and then and a group that purposely logs out every run in order to pop the 1st floor frog. All they would have to see is many people using cells and the NM being killed later to automatically determine who was involved.

[Uzor]

I think my group only did the log out thing for 1F, like... three times total before we decided its useless and do the old route we used to do before. Don't see how not being able to do 1F the easy way really changes anything.

[Celebrindor]

some JSE is crap like the chausible set while some like the igquira set are top of the line gear in everyone's arsenal on that job.

btw, bst, brd, sam, nin, and a host of other jobs have never gotten a chunk of homam or nashira in the past, so there's plenty of precedent for sch/dnc to be left in the rain on that one.

The jobs left off of the homam and nashira sets are those who can equip the sky gods set (osode,haidate,kote,kabuto,sune-ate). These two sets were designed specifically for this reason. As for the more specific question of leaving SCH and DNC off all three of these sets...dunno. I guess you can make an argument for homam-DNC and nashira-SCH of course- but who knows.

I think a MUCH better argument is adding SCH to Morrigan's or Marduk sets, and adding DNC to Skadi set. Exactly for the reason that those jobs have Nyzul relics, ergo why not also get some body gear in the same zone as the currency for the relic? I always thought this was a legitimate argument to leave COR/PUP/BLU out of Dynamis (as they are not on the Zilart relics), but then again, the contradictions of SE shine even more. ><

[Funkworkz]

If they thought of it as an exploit, wouldn't we have all been banned at the same time as everyone else then? I don't think anyone reported it, rather, I think they figured out the trick after they noticed the glitch in the logs they investigated for the duping. After they found out how it could be popped, it took them about a week to write up some new code and test it to prepare it to be implemented, hence the emergency maintenance instead of a ninja fix in a version update.

of course this is probably just biased because my group did the logout, but i dont see why they wouldnt have banned the rest of us at the same time if they can see all that data so easily in the logs anyway.

[Conrad]

btw, bst, brd, sam, nin, and a host of other jobs have never gotten a chunk of homam or nashira in the past, so there's plenty of precedent for sch/dnc to be left in the rain on that one.

Weren't BST/BRD/SAM/NIN excluded from Homam and Nashira because they're on sky god gear? I'd take Byakko's Haidate over Homam Cosciales any day >_>

Still, that doesn't rationalize the WotG jobs, since they're on neither of those, including the abjuration sets.

[Talint]

The jobs left off of the homam and nashira sets are those who can equip the sky gods set (osode,haidate,kote,kabuto,sune-ate). These two sets were designed specifically for this reason. As for the more specific question of leaving SCH and DNC off all three of these sets...dunno. I guess you can make an argument for homam-DNC and nashira-SCH of course- but who knows.

I think a MUCH better argument is adding SCH to Morrigan's or Marduk sets, and adding DNC to Skadi set. Exactly for the reason that those jobs have Nyzul relics, ergo why not also get some body gear in the same zone as the currency for the relic? I always thought this was a legitimate argument to leave COR/PUP/BLU out of Dynamis (as they are not on the Zilart relics), but then again, the contradictions of SE shine even more. ><

COR and PUP are also not on homam/nashira/shijin sets. It's all just inconsistent. :/

(And DNC would benefit much more from Usukane than Skadi, but that might just be me being selfish )

[Yabby]

We went from what they fixed in Zhayolm, to why the new jobs can't wear limbus gear... wow. Only on BG.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Silly thought, but I suppose it could make sense I guess. for 1F frog, would it maybe be possible the logout trick still works but you need to have 3 people with no cells used? Kinda like the opposite of the "3 people with all cells used."

[FailureMidgard]

The God Damn Kuno, can you post your exact route and all frogs killed?
Seems insufficient to say you killed Jakko and it spawned. Needs more information to prove it as a prerequisite.

You're kidding right? I think it's pretty obvious he did the same path that used to pop 6f that has been reported 3 times to not pop 6f anymore, except he killed Jakko.

That is, 2f-Jakko-3fs-5fn-6f. Also, since the only addition is needing to kill Jakko, can still get 5f+6f+chariot in a run.


As for the off-topic discussion, while Byakko's Haidate is amazing, when you compare it to Homam, perhaps you should compare other slots such as feet/hand. Feet are trumped by Usukane only (and only a few jobs get that, unlike Byakko), Hand by uhh, yea...

[Ultimagi]

I don't like to assume things that can be easily clarified.

[pugnax179]

We went from what they fixed in Zhayolm, to why the new jobs can't wear limbus gear... wow. Only on BG.

can we really expect a thread to stay on topic for long because it is always inevitable unless it gets nuked by a mod

[Uzor]

I don't like to assume things that can be easily clarified.

There's no need to outline the entire run it if you've done Zhayolm. There's only so much to do in the zone itself. As it is practically impossible to do 1F > 2F+Jakko > 3F > 4F > 5F > 6F, that option can be ignored.

Saying "Killing Jakko popped 6F" really IS enough to draw a conclusion, if it worked for them. No evidence is needed as the previous requirement was still met, which shows the only thing they changed was making it so that Jakko need to be killed instead of just popped.

[Ultimagi]

So its impossible to assume he may have killed floors 1, 2, 3, and 5, and that killing Jakko didn't have anything to do with it spawning? Let the man answer the question.

[quannum]

In terms of other odd things, the 2F and 3F frog seemed to have less HP than normal but that's purely based on observation and no real evidence.

Can anyone confirm/deny this?

[Shassira]

So to recapitulate, so far the only known changes are 1F log out glitch fixed and Jakko needs to be killed instead of just poped. Can be assumed that the glitch for 5F has been fixed too. No big deal so far and apart from Jakko being removed from the NM count (which hasn't), i can't think of anything game changing.

Btw, please stop the stupid argument about getting banned over this, I would rather read real information about this change.

[Xanthe]

Can anyone confirm/deny this?

Pretty sure they happened to enter on Darkday which gives the frogs reduced HP.

[Ultimagi]

That might explain the 2500+ average Weapon Skill damage we had on our last Zhayolm Remnants. Is there a certain day that reduces their Defense? Our biggest Weapon Skill was 3452 damage, if I recall correctly. It was a very odd run, but very welcome.

[Shassira]

Pretty sure they happened to enter on Darkday which gives the frogs reduced HP.

Frogs seem to change according to some variables (likely day, as they obviously inherit elemental resistances), this includes being melee or magic weak, possibly low HP, etc. There has probably been no change in this from this patch. Also, as a note, we have seen melee weak frogs in a variety of days. At first we though it was in lightsday, but promptly dumped that theory as we started encountering them in other days. Right now, we just don't care anyway, we are just happy to find melee weak frogs when they pop.

[Uzor]

Can anyone confirm/deny this?

The frogs HP vary with each run. Never considered day etc, but it is possible that they have set HP/DEF depending on the day you entered as someone mentioned earlier.