Emergency Maintenance Zhayolm Remnants

[Shinta]

Do you not keep Stoneskin up with Sublimation or something? Seeing as you still can't rest without Stoneskin up, uhh, seems like just trying to counteract Sublimation without stoneskin up is rather pointless.

You may call it pointless, but I've used Sublimation alot with the regen, and alot without and I would never go back to without. Preference I guess.

As for Fast Cast...outside of Cures, what do you actually prefer Fast Cast to haste on? I'd prefer lower recast on Haste to faster-casting haste. I'd prefer a lower recast on Regen to a faster casting Regen. The only spells that Fast Cast is better on are cures, which you should easily be hitting the tier with any various # of methods (cure cast time merits, cure clogs, /sch).

Fast Cast is always a huge help. Most of the time, if anyone dies under my watch it's because they took a huge hit right when I started casting another spell. Speed helps keep people alive. Yes, Cure Clogs are 5% faster, or you could have -10% on every spell, and not just cures.

I'm not saying everyone should run out and be all over Marduk, but saying you are a lolWHM if you wear it isn't very accurate in my opinion. It has it's strengths, and it has only one weakness. Not as much Cure Potency.

Do remember also that if you're running some sort of haste rotation, dropping 2-3 sec off each haste = 1 extra mp tick when you rest at the end of it.

I don't have a full set yet, but I'd like to see how large the difference actually is. Marduk reduces recast by 5%, you can still equip a Swift Belt, Capricorn Staff and Loq. Earring also.

[Eanae]

You mean you have to do salvage the right and intended way now!? Oh the humanity! Better all quit now. SE is killing their game! Q.Q

[Evildemon]

Jakko not counting towards the total (frog)NM killcounter thus forcing you to either do 5FN/boss or 2F/3FS/4FS/5FS/6F(/boss) really would be in lieu with SE's whole idea of making you waste the most possible time on events.

I think it's the banned people their turn to laugh at our expenses again.

I know for sure some people in my LS are gonna be pissed off as hell by this. Especially since we (unlike a lot of other groups) have never been that fortunate with frog drops.

muahaha i'm gonna laugh HARDCORE cus i got banned for one time salvage dupe try and got no drops with other violations against my account

EDIT: Meant to say with "NO" other violations against my account.

[Aihree]

You mean you have to do salvage the right and intended way now!? Oh the humanity! Better all quit now. SE is killing their game! Q.Q

At this point I don't think even SE knows what 'the right and intended way' is. Maybe some developer who no longer works there did, but right now I see a bunch of 'left hand not knowing that the right hand is banning the left hand's customers'.

[Rocl]

SQUARE ENIX IS KILLING SALVAGE OMG

[Eanae]

At this point I don't think even SE knows what 'the right and intended way' is. Maybe some developer who no longer works there did, but right now I see a bunch of 'left hand not knowing that the right hand is banning the left hand's customers'.

Can you pop this said NM without killing any NM's in the zone, by just "popping" them? If no, then use common sense.

[Gaea]

Has anyone confirmed killing Jakko doesn't work? We just did this run, today, and only popped Jakko instead of killing him. 6F frog was of not up, of course. We went in with MNK and RNG as DD and only expected to do frogs because we had the card. (We had THF, too of course). We just didn't have another monk for chariot boss and I prefer to use two. (Our other monk can't make friday runs) So, the whole run was just the frogs.

I figured if this were changed wiki would have been updated. I checked wiki and it still said Jakko + 3 frogs and that's what I did.

Anyways, does Jakko count at all even if he's killed? Because I still prefer this over killing 4 of those fucking things.

Does logout trick still work on 1F? Because honestly, there's no way our group can farm cells on 1F, 2F, and clear the entire 3rd floor in 30 minutes. That's just bloody impossible. Honestly, it's hard to do for us without even skipping 2F and 3F. With 6 people we usualy finish inner rooms in about 10-14 minutes (We don't use name change or widescan). But it takes about 18 minutes for us to completely do 2F so that's out of the question.

If we have to kill 4 frogs, fuck it, I'll kill 2 of them on 1F and fuck 3rd floor and 4th floor.

[Hiryo]

Killing Jakko popped 6f.

gonna assume this is the answer Gaea

[Narse]

Has anyone confirmed killing Jakko doesn't work? We just did this run, today, and only popped Jakko instead of killing him. 6F frog was of not up, of course. We went in with MNK and RNG as DD and only expected to do frogs because we had the card. (We had THF, too of course). We just didn't have another monk for chariot boss and I prefer to use two. (Our other monk can't make friday runs) So, the whole run was just the frogs.

I figured if this were changed wiki would have been updated. I checked wiki and it still said Jakko + 3 frogs and that's what I did.

Anyways, does Jakko count at all even if he's killed? Because I still prefer this over killing 4 of those fucking things.

Does logout trick still work on 1F? Because honestly, there's no way our group can farm cells on 1F, 2F, and clear the entire 3rd floor in 30 minutes. That's just bloody impossible. Honestly, it's hard to do for us without even skipping 2F and 3F. With 6 people we usualy finish inner rooms in about 10-14 minutes (We don't use name change or widescan). But it takes about 18 minutes for us to completely do 2F so that's out of the question.

If we have to kill 4 frogs, fuck it, I'll kill 2 of them on 1F and fuck 3rd floor and 4th floor.

Holy geez learn to read, this was answered several times.

[Gaea]

My bad I only tracked backwards until I found a post regarding this and they didn't seem to know either so I figured it wasn't answered yet.

Thanks then. Looks like wiki was updated, too. Figures someone didn't update it til after my run ;/

[Keyln]

wait what? you are a dumbass.

tiara is +7. evokers horn, evoker's horn hq, and elite beret hq are only +5. you literally need tiara if you want to cap skill.

Oh yes, because we all know how important that +2 Summoning Magic skill can be. You know what I say about that?

...whatever...

the rest of your post is just repeating what i said, and saying they suck because of it, which is a stupid reason. effort or not, they are still arguably the best pieces for those slots skillwise compaired to other, easier to get pieces.

Best how? Marduk doesn't offer more +SMN skill than any other piece of equipment in the same slot, only provides a modest MP boost, and offers no -perpetuation, no -bp timer, and no avatar enhancement.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

Marduk is trash for Summoners.

[frodnonnag]

Oh yes, because we all know how important that +2 Summoning Magic skill can be. You know what I say about that?

...whatever...

and sniper's ring+1 is only +2 accuracy more than NQ. why aim to get the best when i can settle for the "norm"?

Best how? Marduk doesn't offer more +SMN skill than any other piece of equipment in the same slot, only provides a modest MP boost, and offers no -perpetuation, no -bp timer, and no avatar enhancement.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

Marduk is trash for Summoners.

just because it offers the same essential stat as lesser pieces, doesn't make it worthless, the extraneous stats mean alot as well, neither nashira feet or oracle's pants have as much mp or enmity.

just because gleeman's cape has the same int and is easier to get than Ixion's cape, doesn't make it better, ixion's is just better because of the other stats.

edit- oh, and with the way you worded the second statement, you obviously don't have a fucking clue how to macro in gear.

[DAKPluto]

For SMN, Head and Feet should be hands down something every SMN wants.

Head offers the best SMN skill, and Feet offer the skill of Nashira, but actually contains useful stuff with it that we will actually use. A very important thing a GOOD SMN learns down the line is keeping all your different sets with near identical MP so switching between sets doesn't cause massive MP drops. This is why Marduk pieces trump other shit. Nashira don't have shit on the feet but skill, nothing more.

What's the good of having a 300+ MP siphon if you need to be 500 MP below your cap because your skill gear drops your max MP down so low.

Legs are basically same as Oracle's for SMN, so basically which one you want will depend on your other jobs.

[Uzor]

I'm not saying everyone should run out and be all over Marduk, but saying you are a lolWHM if you wear it isn't very accurate in my opinion.

I said you're a lolWHM if you wear Marduk over Aristocrat's for cures. Not that you're a lolWHM if you wear Marduk. I even said myself that Marduk has its uses, but those uses are rather limited.

For one, while I love Sublimation in low-man fights where I don't have access to a RDM to refresh me (in which case I use Marduk Hands like you), Refresh is still superior to it. The Marduk set is good if you have to raise people for the cast time and recast time reduction. However, even in those cases you can cast it at half-time every 2 minutes, unless you chose to do Penury instead, or both at the same time. All of those options are situational. It is good if you want to Haste people or throw up a Stoneskin. Even then I'd think Haste gear is superior to the Marduk set for the extra recast time reduction on Haste. It it, however, the superior choice for Stoneskin, and in some cases Regen, as recast time generally don't matter all that much on Regen.

[brisk]

For SMN, Head and Feet should be hands down something every SMN wants.

Head offers the best SMN skill, and Feet offer the skill of Nashira, but actually contains useful stuff with it that we will actually use. A very important thing a GOOD SMN learns down the line is keeping all your different sets with near identical MP so switching between sets doesn't cause massive MP drops. This is why Marduk pieces trump other shit. Nashira don't have shit on the feet but skill, nothing more.

What's the good of having a 300+ MP siphon if you need to be 500 MP below your cap because your skill gear drops your max MP down so low.

Legs are basically same as Oracle's for SMN, so basically which one you want will depend on your other jobs.

Body is pretty good because I want fast cast and refresh because YY is bloody ugly.

[Shinta]

I said you're a lolWHM if you wear Marduk over Aristocrat's for cures. Not that you're a lolWHM if you wear Marduk. I even said myself that Marduk has its uses, but those uses are rather limited.

For one, while I love Sublimation in low-man fights where I don't have access to a RDM to refresh me (in which case I use Marduk Hands like you), Refresh is still superior to it. The Marduk set is good if you have to raise people for the cast time and recast time reduction. However, even in those cases you can cast it at half-time every 2 minutes, unless you chose to do Penury instead, or both at the same time. All of those options are situational. It is good if you want to Haste people or throw up a Stoneskin. Even then I'd think Haste gear is superior to the Marduk set for the extra recast time reduction on Haste. It it, however, the superior choice for Stoneskin, and in some cases Regen, as recast time generally don't matter all that much on Regen.

Actually, I'd wear Briault for Regen. Damn you SE, damn you to hell.

[Tsuki]

Nvm... i read that wrong lol... But in anycase, marduks isnt complete trash for whm or smn they both get applications from it; its just not a choice many would make if they didnt have BRD already.

[tymora]

With 5 slots used you get relatively decent (not top of the line) gear for several jobs...
What more can you ask for? Inventory economy rules.

[Tomiko]

For SMN, Head and Feet should be hands down something every SMN wants.

Head offers the best SMN skill, and Feet offer the skill of Nashira, but actually contains useful stuff with it that we will actually use. A very important thing a GOOD SMN learns down the line is keeping all your different sets with near identical MP so switching between sets doesn't cause massive MP drops. This is why Marduk pieces trump other shit. Nashira don't have shit on the feet but skill, nothing more.

What's the good of having a 300+ MP siphon if you need to be 500 MP below your cap because your skill gear drops your max MP down so low.

Legs are basically same as Oracle's for SMN, so basically which one you want will depend on your other jobs.

I don't really see much use for Marduk outside of Elemental Siphon. If I'm using a Blood Pact, then I'm going to use -Timer gear for it. If I'm keeping an avatar out I'll be using -Perpetuation gear.

So yes it has its uses, but it's nowhere near as good as you're trying to make it out to be. Feet and Legs I would get since they're cheap, but I wouldn't lose sleep over not getting them. Tiara just isn't worth it (for me) to upgrade due to the cost.

As for the Sniper+1 comparison, at least you can use the Sniper+1 full time. Tiara is an "every 3 minutes" piece from my perspective. SE failed on the Marduk set for Smn by not including either a -Perp piece nor a -BP piece.

[Aymee]

Ok. So in short (looking past armor rambling)--
1F no longer can be tricked into popping.
Jakko needs to be killed in order to count toward the 4.
At least we can simplify the guides for the zone and generically say "4 NMs or more on floors 1 through 5 need to be killed in order to pop the 6th floor NM".

...

...Ok, so the run actually has continuity now and won't feel quite as weird. STILL, since this has been known for ages and ages, I find it hard to believe we'd get an emergency fixing. So... let me propose a random conspiracy theory--

It's possible (testimonial here and experience) to pop 5F frog if your 3rd pathos person forgot to use a cell and then does. Let us pretend that you have a run of 7 people, and persons A B and C are unlocked. Pretend no one else got a full unlock. Members D E and F are holding the cells necessary to fully unlock but have not yet used. Person H has done whatever.
(Again, total hypothetical here)

Normally, the server goes "oh ok, I have 3 or more people fully unlocked and I shall give you a frog. I see that members A B and C do. *pop*". Frog is killed normally and life goes on. Now, for the hell of it, have members D E and F leave 1 cell left to unlock and have them log out on 4F. A B C and H kill the 5F frog. Now have A B and C log out, and D E and F come in and use their last cells to unlock. There are now, again, 3 people present with all pathos unlocked, and the server has not recognized them in the zone before as being people in a group that has killed the 5F frog. For more possible plausibility, let's say the server "takes attendance" for NM kills when the first dies... so D E and F could log before 2F socket and H is used to hold stat cells from 3F.

Ok, so person H then logs, so the server is staring at 3 people on 5F that it has never seen there before and no one that was present at the frog kill is there. MAYBE (epic stretch) this makes another frog pop? The server would (theoretically) act as though 2 entirely separate groups had come through the zone and popped them each a frog. If person H stayed online after A B and C logged and before D E and F logged in there would be a zone continuity... but then logged after to clear 'the list' of people recognized as in zone on 5F for kill. Huge stretch, but a bug like this were the server could be tricked like this IS the sort of thing they'd fix ASAP. The other changes to the zone might have been meant for the next patch and were ready to go (and were put in anyway).

Complete server goof and along the lines of the same server oddity on 1F, but this would have to be extremely premeditated strategy and is obviously a more important thing to deal with. The code used to fix 5F probably fixed 1F as a bonus, but wasn't the priority. As for Jakko, it would have taken about 5 seconds for someone to adjust the server code to change "Slot Activated" to "NMblah killed" as a condition for the total of 4 for 6F pop.

...
In short, people could have applied something along the lines of the 1F logout trick on 5F. More complicated because of the pathos check upon arriving on 5F, but still basically the same thing.