Teleporting Information

[alt]

That's assuming that we can create something with a 'soul' of sorts. As stated by Max, we might be able to create a complete replica of a person (Assuming you're destroying and recreating), but would it actually be alive? We haven't really made a human from spare parts and ever made it dance around on it's own as far as we all know.

maybe souls have port forwarding.

i mean god must have known that we would invent teleporting, so maybe our souls have the built in feature of being able to forwarded to our new body!

[Cow_k]

maybe souls have port forwarding.

i mean god must have known that we would invent teleporting, so maybe our souls have the built in feature of being able to forwarded to our new body!

That would be delicious. Make data copies of your younger body and whenever you feel like it, transfer to the new body and live forever~ Or bring back loved ones killed in accidents etc.!

[Maguspk]

I've had long discussions about this with friends.

It's weird to think about but the conclusion that I came to was that even if an exact copy was made you'd still be destroyed. My thoughts would end but an exact copy of me would then exist in my place. For all intents and purposes he is me, but I am dead. That is, that copy is just that, a copy, who is so perfectly a copy that he fools everyone and they believe it is me, but in reality my thoughts have ended and a new beings thoughts have started.

Not sure if I explained that well but basically: You die but a 'clone' exists and fools everybody (unintentionally) into thinking it's original didn't die. So essentially you have people committing mass suicides without every knowing or being able to prove that once you teleport you're thoughts end and you're gone forever.

[Kaylia]

I'm never gonna use any teleport, unless both space are literally connected, and that my brain can function fine when I'm standing halfway in the teleport. That kind of teleport would be a big no from me.

[0ni0n]

I've had long discussions about this with friends.

It's weird to think about but the conclusion that I came to was that even if an exact copy was made you'd still be destroyed. My thoughts would end but an exact copy of me would then exist in my place. For all intents and purposes he is me, but I am dead. That is, that copy is just that, a copy, who is so perfectly a copy that he fools everyone and they believe it is me, but in reality my thoughts have ended and a new beings thoughts have started.

Not sure if I explained that well but basically: You die but a 'clone' exists and fools everybody (unintentionally) into thinking it's original didn't die. So essentially you have people committing mass suicides without every knowing or being able to prove that once you teleport you're thoughts end and you're gone forever.

Reminds me of the movie the Prestige, where he clones/teleports himself every performance while killing the original off. Love that movie.

[Azalee]

Reminds me of the movie the Prestige, where he clones/teleports himself every performance while killing the original off. Love that movie.

I thought of that too after reading that. =P

Seems kind of freaky to me.

[Meian]

Yea I've had this talk with some friends before in the past several times and it always seems to end up with not desiring to be a part of it. It does feel like you are killing yourself for a "chance" of moving elsewhere as a clone (being Christian, feels like my soul left the body and thinks I did die).

Would be nice if it was like making mini-wormholes or something

[0ni0n]

Yea I've had this talk with some friends before in the past several times and it always seems to end up with not desiring to be a part of it. It does feel like you are killing yourself for a "chance" of moving elsewhere as a clone (being Christian, feels like my soul left the body and thinks I did die).

Would be nice if it was like making mini-wormholes or something

How do you know a soul can't be replicated if a person can?

[Meian]

How do you know a soul can't be replicated if a person can?

Souls are tangible?

[Xanthe]

How do you know a soul can't be replicated if a person can?

The way I see it, put into database terms, is this:

A soul is like the unique key for a table entry and cannot have more than one occurrence. The body is like the accompanying data. You can have identical data between two entries, but the key cannot be duplicated. In this respect, teleportation could be thought of as a giant copy-paste operation. You will have two identical bodies, but the unique identifier, the soul, cannot be duplicated.

[Jotaru]

It's weird to think about but the conclusion that I came to was that even if an exact copy was made you'd still be destroyed. My thoughts would end but an exact copy of me would then exist in my place. For all intents and purposes he is me, but I am dead. That is, that copy is just that, a copy, who is so perfectly a copy that he fools everyone and they believe it is me, but in reality my thoughts have ended and a new beings thoughts have started.

This is true, and I've put thought to this as well, but then it comes back to defining consciousness, etc. For example- when you go to sleep, all your thoughts end, your memories fade away, etc, you 'die' in the conscious sense. When you wake up in the morning, you're a new person so to speak- you have all your memories, recollections, feelings, etc... yet we classify that as being the same person (of course)

If you were to design such a perfect clone that all the memories, neurons, neural impulses etc were exactly the same, what's to say they wouldn't be you too, if it killed the 'original' in the process? Its almost impossible to fathom what it would be like, but its an interesting thought.. perhaps your consciousness would transfer, and your 'conscious' being is really only a product of the information stored in your brain. If you're religious you will of course disagree with that, but I'd like to think its a possibility, I don't know. Were it true, that'd mean a perfect clone of you would have the same 'consciousness'- but then again, the actual YOU can only be in one body at a time, of course, since all the processes occur in the brain, so it complicates matters.

Very interesting to me, but, would it even be possible to test? Its like Descartes in a way, you really only know about yourself existing, and nothing else, nothing else can be certain- for all we know, we could be body-less cells sitting somewhere, and the entire world around us is a figment of our imagination. How then would we know, if we 'teleported' someone in this matter, and destroyed their original, if the new person was in fact the same? The teleported person would most likely have the same memories and whatnot were all the brain information transported properly, so they would think they were the person before (were they to survive)... but is it REALLY the same person, or just someone who thinks they are? Hmmm.

[0ni0n]

Souls are tangible?

What's your definition of a soul anyway? How do you feel something that's not tangible? Don't say emotions, because they are essentially a heavy dose of chemical cocktail activated in your brain.

The way I see it, put into database terms, is this:

A soul is like the unique key for a table entry and cannot have more than one occurrence. The body is like the accompanying data. You can have identical data between two entries, but the key cannot be duplicated. In this respect, teleportation could be thought of as a giant copy-paste operation. You will have two identical bodies, but the unique identifier, the soul, cannot be duplicated.

Are you saying if I copy the database from one server to another (a change of physical location), the unique identifier can't be copied? Are you serious?

[Max™]

I wouldn't want to be the first to try it...

Maybe take a dog who's personality you know really well, then try teleporting him to see if it still acts like the same dog when he un-disintegrates.

Take a computer, or a game of the Sims or something, any program that builds off prior time based input.

Teleport it, see if the program is running on the other side.

Take a dog you've trained well, tell it to sit and run the destruction part of the teleportation, see if it completes the command on the other side.


My soul is stored in the arrangement of electrons within my brain, I'm fairly certain.

Scientists are getting closer and closer to showing that the old "it's all bio-chemical" view of consciousness is as wrong as it sounds. You can't properly explain awareness and memory as a process without invoking quantum entanglement and superpositions of states.

We know there is a good amount of charge going around the brain, so the question is, right now there is a state that EXACTLY describes every aspect of your awareness.

You know this, because you argue that you are aware.


If that state were reproduced elsewhere, they would argue they are you... I think it's called the identity of indiscernibles or something.

As for souls being unique, as much faith as I have, I know this to be false just because you should be able to create a closed timelike curve and literally meet yourself. A soul is a process, not an entity unto itself.



Perfect example!

How do you know you're you when you fall asleep and wake up?

When you fall into an icy lake, spend 15 minutes brain-dead, then miraculously get revived and reboot, are you still you?

If you died, were frozen, and then thawed and restored to health, after centuries of unawareness... are you still you?


If you duplicated exactly the states of your memory and awareness while destroying copy A (YOU ARE JUST A COPY), then restored them in a different location as copy B, that copy would have memories from a time before it was created.

[Meian]

What's your definition of a soul anyway? How do you feel something that's not tangible? Don't say emotions, because they are essentially a heavy dose of chemical cocktail activated in your brain.

There really isn't an easy answer to this question but I think it is like a life force coding that makes us unique and is used also as a tablet to mark sins for God's judgment. My opinion more than anything really {with a bit of romance} so don't start going into antireligious questions that can't be answered easily (e.g "why does God allow suffering" / etc)

[Xanthe]

Are you saying if I copy the database from one server to another (a change of physical location), the unique identifier can't be copied? Are you serious?

You have the hierarchy confused. A different sever in this case would be another universe entirely. A single entry in a table is a person.

[0ni0n]

There really isn't an easy answer to this question but I think it is like a life force coding that makes us unique and is used also as a tablet to mark sins for God's judgment. My opinion more than anything really so don't start going into antireligious questions that can't be answered easily (e.g "why does God allow suffering" / etc)

Does the life force take the form of energy? If it is then it's tangible since E=MC^2. Assuming anything tangible can be copied, thus the soul can be replicated as well?

You have the hierarchy confused. A different sever in this case would be another universe entirely. A single entry in a table is a person.

Then by copying the entire universe from one server to another, we can duplicate the unique key in another physical location? Just because something is unique, it doesn't mean it can't be copied.

[Max™]

Technically a person is not a single entry, it is a history of entries that constantly updates itself.

You are a cloud of ideas, memes, memories, which believes it is you.

I do not believe you would be able to tell if you were shut off just now...



Then rebooted just now.

The rest of us would say "you were dead for a few seconds".

You'd have memories up to the shut off, and continuing at the reboot, just like you blinked or fell asleep.

[Jotaru]

How do you know you're you when you fall asleep and wake up?

I love you, we think alike

[Max™]

Does the life force take the form of energy? If it is then it's tangible since E=MC^2. Assuming anything tangible can be copied, thus the soul can be replicated as well?



Then by copying the entire universe from one server to another, we can duplicate the unique key in another physical location? Just because something is unique, it doesn't mean it can't be copied.

The Universe IS the server, we are data states within it, as is all the matter in this Universe.



There is no metaphysical soul, it is only ethereal in the sense that it is probably a function of entangled states of electrons (and possibly functions in some holographic sense... while returning 3% of the damage you take as MP), you are nothing more than a bit of dust with a spark in it.

Your cat has a spark behind it's eyes too, God didn't insert sparks only into our heads, if anything it was a general parameter when the server (the Universe) was booted up that stable feedback loops tend to form, become more complex, and produce more of their kind.

Awareness is just a complex self sustaining feedback loop.

10: Are you aware?
20: If yes, go to 10.
30: If no, end.

[0ni0n]

The Universe IS the server, we are data states within it, as is all the matter in this Universe.



There is no metaphysical soul, it is only ethereal in the sense that it is probably a function of entangled states of electrons (and possibly functions in some holographic sense... while returning 3% of the damage you take as MP), you are nothing more than a bit of dust with a spark in it.

Your cat has a spark behind it's eyes too, God didn't insert sparks only into our heads, if anything it was a general parameter when the server (the Universe) was booted up that stable feedback loops tend to form, become more complex, and produce more of their kind.

Awareness is just a complex self sustaining feedback loop.

10: Are you aware?
20: If yes, go to 10.
30: If no, end.

I am not trying to answer the question of what awareness and soul is than to determine whether it is tangible and thus can be copied, otherwise we will be doing ourselves a disservice since our understanding is too narrow to comprehend what it truly is.