Developer Interview (Dengeki Feb. '09)

[Virtuous Saint]

Those interviews make me rage. They seriously need to include gamers in their rank, because they suck at making enjoyables endgame contents. I'm not even sure what kind of audience they are targetting with NM like AV and PW.

They are targeting the best, most skilled players in the game, the players who thrive on challenge instead of 0 risk of fail... unless I read that wrong. I have pandemonium queller title, and it was the funnest fight I have done in this game probably. There are two HNM in this game which are truly hard battles, and everyone complains... if they are too difficult for you then stick with KB, and don't complain? Ya the secret to AV has not been found, but we beat PW, and it in no way should be nerfed.

[Vodou]

Those interviews make me rage. They seriously need to include gamers in their rank, because they suck at making enjoyables endgame contents. I'm not even sure what kind of audience they are targetting with NM like AV and PW.

I'd like to understand your point.

When I started 'endgame' there was only sky, sea, land kings, Timmy, (and if you will) dynamis and limbus.

Now there is in addition, salvage, assault, einherjar, nyzul, ZNMs, (S) BCNMs, Khimmy, Hydra, Cerb, improved drops rates in all dynamis', easier CoD dynamis', etc.

Most of the new things that were added are quite do-able by groups of 5-12 people with many different jobs and with gear that is not the best.

They are targeting the endgamers who want really hard content and (hopefully) really good rewards instead of the endgame content in the last 3 years which was designed for (IMO) all of the remaining community.

[Shassira]

They are targeting the best, most skilled players in the game, the players who thrive on challenge instead of 0 risk of fail... unless I read that wrong. I have pandemonium queller title, and it was the funnest fight I have done in this game probably. There are two HNM in this game which are truly hard battles, and everyone complains... if they are too difficult for you then stick with KB, and don't complain? Ya the secret to AV has not been found, but we beat PW, and it in no way should be nerfed.

How about a monster that is hard and doesn't need an alliance? Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. The problem with their vision of hard is they seem to believe such fights need to be made for alliances. Unless you guys did PW with 6 people, which from what I read you didn't

Personaly that's my gripe. I don't wish to be in a LS like yours or any similar just to fight a hard monster, so we have to artificialy make our events harder by creating low man challenges. Where is the low man content that equates in challenge to those big bosses? PW, AV, the target for those bosses is your type of LS and not a group of (hopefuly skilled) friends that doesn't want to cope with other things that involve the end game "scene".

Short version:
Hard? Yes, please!
Multitudinary? No, thanks.


On the BST thing:

Charm isn't at fault for this.

A JA that can't be used because of the enviroment is as good as a JA that doesn't work. Charm may not be at fault, but it's still removed on most things that "matter". Jug pets are such a poor substitute.

I don't want to play another job. I only do because otherwise I'd still be looking for an LS that would let me do Einherjar with them as BST only.

I take charge of many of the little events we do (including Salvage) and as much as i'd love to go as BST only, thing is I have more useful jobs. I cannot for the life of me find a reason to go bst to most things without feeling I would be doing better on one of my other jobs.
(I guess this is the primary reason we ended up thinking a strategy for LAC with a BST... at least I can use it where it matters xD)

[Keyln]

The problem with BST is that it has very little application outside of EXP parties (and even then, it's not as strong as other jobs), and thus, BST gets shunned, alot.

To help illustrate my point, I present this little hypothetical:

Imagine that you have all 20 jobs fully meritted and fully equipped. Now take an event, any event. Doesn't matter what it is. To what event would you take BST to? If your answer is none, then my point is made.

Really, SE needs to change two things to make BST more viable, in my opinion.

First off, BSTs need pets to bring out to areas where there are no monsters to charm, which is pretty much everywhere except for XP areas. While the jug system is nice and all, jug monsters are generally weaker than charmed monsters found elsewhere. If SE wants BST to be more viable, they need to think of something else. For starters, I would look how Blizzard did the Hunter class, or the Beastmaster job in Final Fantasy V. While I won't go into any great detail here, I think the ability to capture certain monsters, train them as pets, teach them abilities, and generally level up with the BST would go a long way into making BST more viable. Add in the ability to call that pet anywhere and we have ourselves a winner.

The other thing I would change with BST is the killer system as a whole. The problem with the killer system as it is now is that it's only useful if the person with the killer trait is being targetted, and then it only kicks in once in a while as an intimidation move. Obviously, if the BST is never the target of the enemy's attacks, then the killer effect is effectively useless. This is a shame really, as BST has the largest number of killer traits of any job. So, the easiest way to fix this is to give BST a series of traits that would allow him to better use these killer traits. I would make it so that the new trait would give BSTs an attack bonus, an accuracy bonus, and a haste bonus if they have a matching killer trait for the enemy that they're fighting.

But yeah, BST needs work and love. And lots of it.

[Okan]

They are targeting the best, most skilled players in the game, the players who thrive on challenge instead of 0 risk of fail... unless I read that wrong. I have pandemonium queller title, and it was the funnest fight I have done in this game probably. There are two HNM in this game which are truly hard battles, and everyone complains... if they are too difficult for you then stick with KB, and don't complain? Ya the secret to AV has not been found, but we beat PW, and it in no way should be nerfed.

I have no problem with these (as some call it) Super HNM (SHNM). My problem is that these interviews usually degrade in to a point where half of the interview is asking about AV or PW. I don't care about AV or PW so please stop asking so many damn questions about them. And before it's a "LOL ur the only 1," the fact is actually part of the majority of the game that really could care less about them.

I cannot for the life of me find a reason to go bst to most things without feeling I would be doing better on one of my other jobs.

This is the problem. We shouldn't feel guilty for wanting to play BST in even Nyzul/Salvage/Anything just as much as that WAR or DRK should feel guilty that they aren't on a "better" job.

The other thing I would change with BST is the killer system as a whole. The problem with the killer system as it is now is that it's only useful if the person with the killer trait is being targetted, and then it only kicks in once in a while as an intimidation move. Obviously, if the BST is never the target of the enemy's attacks, then the killer effect is effectively useless. This is a shame really, as BST has the largest number of killer traits of any job. So, the easiest way to fix this is to give BST a series of traits that would allow him to better use these killer traits. I would make it so that the new trait would give BSTs an attack bonus, an accuracy bonus, and a haste bonus if they have a matching killer trait for the enemy that they're fighting.

They did in a sense answer this issue with the "Killer Instinct" merit. The problem is the 5 merits to get it down to a 5 minute recast for a 1 minute duration.

To what event would you take BST to? If your answer is none, then my point is made.

Again, this is the problem. I personally don't think that there should really be ANY reason to deny a certain class a chance at events -- excluding very particular reasons. Melee should be melee. Magic should be magic. Not Melee is WAR, DRK, or SAM -- ignore all others.

[Virtuous Saint]

How about a monster that is hard and doesn't need an alliance? Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. The problem with their vision of hard is they seem to believe such fights need to be made for alliances. Unless you guys did PW with 6 people, which from what I read you didn't

Personaly that's my gripe. I don't wish to be in a LS like yours or any similar just to fight a hard monster, so we have to artificialy make our events harder by creating low man challenges. Where is the low man content that equates in challenge to those big bosses? PW, AV, the target for those bosses is your type of LS and not a group of (hopefuly skilled) friends that doesn't want to cope with other things that involve the end game "scene".

Byakko 6man or less, Khim 6man or less, Jorm 6man or less, KB 6man or less, ect... You want challenge for low man groups there you have it. There is no such thing as 'low man created difficult fights' unless it is in a member capped BC fight. SE doesn't have the thought process of 'lets create a fight that would be really tough for 6 people to kill' unless it is a BC of 6 members because that would be a joke for an alliance which could fight it.

[Nekio]

SE doesn't have the thought process of 'lets create a fight that would be really tough for 6 people to kill' unless it is a BC of 6 members because that would be a joke for an alliance which could fight it.

Unless they gave the mob a TP move that did damage that increased exponentially based on how many people have hate on it. There are millions of ways to make it impossible to defeat a mob with more than a certain number of people.

[Corrderio]

Yay for Northlands! Boo for me recently getting Valor Surcoat and now I gotta replace it D:

[Wolfknight]

I support these general ideas as far as bst:
1) Fix 1H weapons. Even better, make 2H weapons give mobs more TP per hit to match 1H tp-feeding rate AND fix the damage on 1H to compete with 2H.

this is retarded idea[regard to tp, I think 1 Handers could use some damage buff], two handers give 14~17.6 tp vs dual wields normal 8 per hand all pre-subtle blow, the only reason one handers feed tp is multi hit weapons, but same can be said of soboro, seriously you want 2 handers giving some bullshit 20 tp a hit to mobs?

[Kerberoz]

There's nothing wrong with having extremely hard HNMs. The problem is that AV and PW are popped and not free-roaming. Having to waste a pop to test things is not skill. It's an artificial barrier and an annoyance. What about when you only have 12-18 people and can easily kill ZNM t1-4 but can't dent PW? It's either used for lolmythic or wasted.

Sure, keep adding insane NMs, but make them roam like CoP wyrms...

And really everything should give the mobs more TP.

[Corrderio]

There's nothing wrong with having extremely hard HNMs. The problem is that AV and PW are popped and not free-roaming. Having to waste a pop to test things is not skill. It's an artificial barrier and an annoyance. What about when you only have 12-18 people and can easily kill ZNM t1-4 but can't dent PW? It's either used for lolmythic or wasted.

Sure, keep adding insane NMs, but make them roam like CoP wyrms...

And really everything should give the mobs more TP.

Maybe roam like Ixion would be better, where if someone attacks it and they wipe, it'll run to another zone to spawn.

[Kaylia]

They are targeting the best, most skilled players in the game, the players who thrive on challenge instead of 0 risk of fail... unless I read that wrong. I have pandemonium queller title, and it was the funnest fight I have done in this game probably. There are two HNM in this game which are truly hard battles, and everyone complains... if they are too difficult for you then stick with KB, and don't complain? Ya the secret to AV has not been found, but we beat PW, and it in no way should be nerfed.

Gathering 30 peoples for a fight and finding a fair way to split reward is fucking challenging indeed. I'm all for a challenging fight, but the endgame dynamics between players make it a freaking pain to do.

Skilled players...don't make me laugh. The gameplay mechanics haven't changed in years. It's just a matter of perseverance, because after 1 freaking PW set, it's hard to convince people to keep farming them.

I'd like to understand your point.

When I started 'endgame' there was only sky, sea, land kings, Timmy, (and if you will) dynamis and limbus.

Now there is in addition, salvage, assault, einherjar, nyzul, ZNMs, (S) BCNMs, Khimmy, Hydra, Cerb, improved drops rates in all dynamis', easier CoD dynamis', etc.

Most of the new things that were added are quite do-able by groups of 5-12 people with many different jobs and with gear that is not the best.

They are targeting the endgamers who want really hard content and (hopefully) really good rewards instead of the endgame content in the last 3 years which was designed for (IMO) all of the remaining community.

That content isn't "hard", it's just a pain. Make something "hard" that require 6 people or 12 people and give a reward instead. It would easier to drag people, and would be a lot more enjoyable for everyone this way.

Or at the very least, make it so you don't lose hours of effort if you wipe. Roaming HNM, or a triggered pop similar to Ouryu.

[Okan]

I was saying it 3 years ago, I'll still say it again. More of this game needs to be moved to pop items or BCNMs. I love the idea behind ZNMs, it's just building zeni that seems like a huge time sink. Making the 3 "kings" in a BCNM was a good idea to begin, but they didn't put the items that we wanted in there. Some did, like KClub and Speed Belt, but I want abjurations and weapons. Sure, we all love the challenge of said bosses for the first time or two, but after killing the boss 5 times or more, you just get bored doing it. Tiamat and Jorm were exhilarating the very first time we killed it. The second time was a bit less heart thumping. Eventually it became the yawning event we all consider it today. That is the point that no matter who you are, the fight is boring and all you want is that last damn piece of gear that will never drop. Say "Hi" to Fafnir and your Ridills. It's pretty much the only reason people actually kill him anymore.

Far roaming bosses like Sandworm and Dark Ixion wouldn't be bad since it would be a game of who can gather at it the fastest, but I will never camp an HNM like Fafnir, King Behemoth, or Aspido again. This is why I am doing Einherjar. It's easily scheduled, far more fair to all people involved since I am not sitting in a tiny room waiting for a boss to randomly pop, be a chance at the version we want, and hope to get claim over at least 2-3 other linkshells with 10-18 people ALSO spamming a macro to get the claim.

[drwaffles]

I wish they'd implement more mobs like the CoP Wyrms, but with worthwhile drops. Watching Jormungand roam its territory atop the summit of an icy mountain in the midst of a blizzard is still one of the most dramatic scenes in FFXI, but due to piss-poor implementation it's essentially nothing more than an aesthetic facet of the game. It shouldn't be like that. The world should be littered with formidable and unique-looking HNMs spawning in a variety of different locations, all of which are too difficult to warrant competitive camping á la Tiamat/Khim/Cerb.

[Vodou]

Gathering 30 peoples for a fight and finding a fair way to split reward is fucking challenging indeed. I'm all for a challenging fight, but the endgame dynamics between players make it a freaking pain to do.

Skilled players...don't make me laugh. The gameplay mechanics haven't changed in years. It's just a matter of perseverance, because after 1 freaking PW set, it's hard to convince people to keep farming them.

That content isn't "hard", it's just a pain. Make something "hard" that require 6 peoples or 12 peoples and reward people instead. It would easier to drag people, and would be a lot more enjoyable for everyone this way.

I guess I will chalk this up to me not understanding. Salvage, Assault, Nyzul, (S) BCNMs, Hydra, Khimmy, land kings, in fact most NMs in this game and about 95% of the content added in the last 3 years does not require 30 people or even close to it.

Thirty people? That is so extremely rare as a requirement for almost anything in this game, I can't fathom where you get it. I am thinking you find all of these a "pain" as you said it.

You'll get no where with SE saying change the game because its a "pain". If you are saying you want ebodys and mars' rings to fall in 3 person bcnms by people with average gear with 50% drop rates, then good luck on that.

I agree with you that SE will not do that. FFXI is about teamwork and strategy not individuals and tiny groups getting the best gear easily. If you call that a "pain", then we can agree its difficult. The recent additions of salvage and nyzul which in fact does have some grade A gear is SE's response.

I can only guess that you consider salvage and Nyzul just not easy enough.

[Corrderio]

I was saying it 3 years ago, I'll still say it again. More of this game needs to be moved to pop items or BCNMs. I love the idea behind ZNMs, it's just building zeni that seems like a huge time sink. Making the 3 "kings" in a BCNM was a good idea to begin, but they didn't put the items that we wanted in there. Some did, like KClub and Speed Belt, but I want abjurations and weapons. Sure, we all love the challenge of said bosses for the first time or two, but after killing the boss 5 times or more, you just get bored doing it. Tiamat and Jorm were exhilarating the very first time we killed it. The second time was a bit less heart thumping. Eventually it became the yawning event we all consider it today. That is the point that no matter who you are, the fight is boring and all you want is that last damn piece of gear that will never drop. Say "Hi" to Fafnir and your Ridills. It's pretty much the only reason people actually kill him anymore.

Far roaming bosses like Sandworm and Dark Ixion wouldn't be bad since it would be a game of who can gather at it the fastest, but I will never camp an HNM like Fafnir, King Behemoth, or Aspido again. This is why I am doing Einherjar. It's easily scheduled, far more fair to all people involved since I am not sitting in a tiny room waiting for a boss to randomly pop, be a chance at the version we want, and hope to get claim over at least 2-3 other linkshells with 10-18 people ALSO spamming a macro to get the claim.

^ THIS!

[Vodou]

I wish they'd implement more mobs like the CoP Wyrms, but with worthwhile drops. Watching Jormungand roam its territory atop the summit of an icy mountain in the midst of a blizzard is still one of the most dramatic scenes in FFXI, but due to piss-poor implementation it's essentially nothing more than an aesthetic facet of the game. It shouldn't be like that. The world should be littered with formidable and unique-looking HNMs spawning in a variety of different locations, all of which are too difficult to warrant competitive camping á la Tiamat/Khim/Cerb.

LOL. I was just saying to someone the other day, I wished they would move fafhogs, turtles and KB's loot pools.

Why not to Vrtra, Jimmy, Hydra and Timmy? I think Jorm and Hydra have to be beefed up some to make it harder. But, as you can imagine, some people would be pissed off. Still, you are so right: those areas are pretty cool and wasted on mobs that people rarely care to fight.

[drwaffles]

It's not like Jorm's a total walk in the park to begin with. A lot easier to tank on the ground than Tiamat, but its aerial TP moves and adds can be a real bitch. Even if they just bumped up the pathetic damage on the Pole it might actually be worth going to kill it for reasons other than sheer boredom. Why give such an epic-looking HNM a fucking useless gimmick drop, seriously?

[Kaylia]

I guess I will chalk this up to me not understanding. Salvage, Assault, Nyzul, (S) BCNMs, Hydra, Khimmy, land kings, in fact most NMs in this game and about 95% of the content added in the last 3 years does not require 30 people or even close to it.

Thirty people? That is so extremely rare as a requirement for almost anything in this game, I can't fathom where you get it. I am thinking you find all of these a "pain" as you said it.

You'll get no where with SE saying change the game because its a "pain". If you are saying you want ebodys and mars' rings to fall in 3 person bcnms by people with average gear with 50% drop rates, then good luck on that.

Do you seriously think I never spammed those events? I'm usually one of the few players who starts doing them as soon they are released, before others jump in the bandwagon months later. Being the first to accomplish something is my only drive. That aside, why are you defending FFXI's endgame? Do you think it's so awesome that nothing could be improved drastically? I hope not.

The whole game is built around the community, yet, most events just create tension between linkshells, or even within the same linkshell (because the poor ass drop rate). It's hard to motivate people in the context, to make them persevere after multiples faillures (ie: no drop, wipe..etc), when they perfectly know there won't be any reward in the end for them.

Not everything is bad about the game, but those interviews make me realize the game will not improves, because the developers forget the human factor when they implement their content. Everything look good in theory, but it's too often poorly executed.

[Aro]

I guess they didn't notice PW's been beat :S