Dancer - 1 year after WotG

[eva00r]

Back to when WotG has just released, dancers were relatively not so useful in any endgame activities and especially useless in big fights, so most people leveled DNC for sub only. But after several updates, SE bumped up a lot of DNC's aspects. Merit G1/Merit G2/AF+1/AFv2/ZNM/Mythic WS/Gears/etc ... that beefed up the job to almost on par with others.

Bottom Line: What can current dancer accomplish endgame ?

edit: endgame = dyna/limbus/sky/sea/nyzul/salvage/znm/ein/wotg nm/bahamut/ouryu/wtf/etc ... not just your papadragon in a tree's crackhole.

This is not a question for a nub dancer to answer/flame/shit ass, but for someone who like this job, get full merits, aim for best possible gears and had tried several activities with it.

[Jakson]

It's on par, not on pair.

[The Stig]

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INSERT URAT'S ENDGAME KNOWLEDGE + AV THERIES POST WITH HIS WHAT, LEVEL 65 DNC/31 NIN post YES DNC CAN TANK ETC ONE BILLION GIL FOR DNC MYTHIC

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EDIT: FOR EMPHASIS

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...

I had done it in my head, and it came out a lot higher than that.

Well in that case terpischore isn't that bad. only like 3x the cost of a relic, not 10x...

And because mythics are double attack, with from what we've seen from the testing, a high proc rate, screw joytoy >3

Brutal earing isn't a question, I'm definitly getting it asap. I seriously neeed to get around to working on rajas ring though D:

[Silenka]

DNC, much like SMN and PUP, really has no niche, nor can it fill another job's niche at the moment like SCH can. The argument can't even be made that DNC is on par with WHM, because WHM doesn't have to feed the mob TP in order to use cures. While steps can be useful debuffs, I really don't see DNC having a big role to play in endgame - and this is coming from someone who wishes to see DNC be a viable endgame support/dd job. Honestly, I would liken DNC to COR the most - it can put out decent damage and really good support, just not of a type that is always reliable, or in DNC's case, useful.

[Not Kuno]

Hey SMN is good if you want tpless damage. DNC on the other hand... not useful at all.

[Silenka]

That's true. :D

[Lordwafik]

Welcome to the problem with FFXI, 20 jobs and only half of them are solid/useful.

DNC is good with low man endgame - I cound Dynamis / Limbus as part of endgame as they are extra curricular activities that take place after the levelling up part of the game stops.

Dynamis - Stick them in the party that had a RDM doing the healing, so 4x DD/NIN DNC BRD and you guys will be rocking. Screw drain samba, you don't need that, you use haste samba on mobs where it's going to be worth a damn (longer lasting mobs like NMs / Glacier / Xarca). Contrary to popular belief, yes, a dancer can actually heal people (many people forget this).

Limbus, same as Dynamis.

Zerg fights with MNK pts (KV, Kirin, etc) - stick a capped merit DNC in there, haste samba cuts down weapon delay for 1 handers where they can't do it via JA anywhere else (they can't sub sam since hasso only works on 2handers). Haste samba + Haste + March x2(nq, not even SV) brings your attack speed pretty damn high. I had this when I was thiefing and it was like hundred dagger speed even though my offhand was a longer delay weapon (X's).

JoL is another fight where theoretically a DNC should be ok. We had BRD+COR+RDM for each of our melee PTs, but considering feeding TP to JoL doesn't really matter all that much, a DNC could replace a RDM in that slot too, true they won't be recieving the haste cycle, but it's overkill on a fight like that.


Basically all you have to do is think when a person says "Omg dnc sucks, it can't even __________ ", and instead of accepting it, think of Why it can't do such and such, and you may find an answer to counter.

Please note, much like my first sentence, this game has too many jobs and not enough diversity, not every job in the game was designed to fight everything. This does not mean it's useless, it just means that while it's not that great on HNM, it can excell in other places.

[Septimus]

Welcome to the problem with FFXI, 20 jobs and only half of them are solid/useful.

DNC is good with low man endgame - I cound Dynamis / Limbus as part of endgame as they are extra curricular activities that take place after the levelling up part of the game stops.

Dynamis - Stick them in the party that had a RDM doing the healing, so 4x DD/NIN DNC BRD and you guys will be rocking. Screw drain samba, you don't need that, you use haste samba on mobs where it's going to be worth a damn (longer lasting mobs like NMs / Glacier / Xarca). Contrary to popular belief, yes, a dancer can actually heal people (many people forget this).

Limbus, same as Dynamis.

Zerg fights with MNK pts (KV, Kirin, etc) - stick a capped merit DNC in there, haste samba cuts down weapon delay for 1 handers where they can't do it via JA anywhere else (they can't sub sam since hasso only works on 2handers). Haste samba + Haste + March x2(nq, not even SV) brings your attack speed pretty damn high. I had this when I was thiefing and it was like hundred dagger speed even though my offhand was a longer delay weapon (X's).

JoL is another fight where theoretically a DNC should be ok. We had BRD+COR+RDM for each of our melee PTs, but considering feeding TP to JoL doesn't really matter all that much, a DNC could replace a RDM in that slot too, true they won't be recieving the haste cycle, but it's overkill on a fight like that.


Basically all you have to do is think when a person says "Omg dnc sucks, it can't even __________ ", and instead of accepting it, think of Why it can't do such and such, and you may find an answer to counter.

Please note, much like my first sentence, this game has too many jobs and not enough diversity, not every job in the game was designed to fight everything. This does not mean it's useless, it just means that while it's not that great on HNM, it can excell in other places.

DNC is pretty sexy to put in the melee party on tier 1 or 2 Einherjar as well. Not sure if I would want to risk in on a tier 3 since you can get badly fucked on mobs.

[Toth]

I love my DNC and everything it can do. People vastly underestimate the damage a good, meritted DNC can do. SD is just awesome. TP issues have been partially solved by the introduction of No Foot Rise and Reverse Flourish merits. Plus, haste samba and their steps really aid in killing any mob faster. Yet, it does need improvements. I'd say it's enfeebling skills need a bit of a boost and a drastic cut in step timers (especially during Trance)

[kayn]

I think the problem is two fold. As wafik said, there's 20 jobs in the game and you only need like 4 to accomplish most anything. The second issue is that when people see the word "end game" they only think of sitting in the Aery for 3 hours a day.

Such events like Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar, Assault, Salvage, ZNM, SNM, ENM, etc are all activities for players at 75. I am not that knowedgable about DNC but I've had a xp pt w/ a rdm who basically afk'd the whole time because the dnc had absoultely no problems keeping the party healed.

I really don't know if the issue lies with DNC but instead the playerbase. We're too set in what we know works and until someone comes along and shows us an alternative we really don't want to try new strategies.

[eva00r]

Is Fan Dance useful in anyway ? Can a fully merited DNC tanking things ?

[Shin Volcano]

The problem comes mainly from old school players, who if you bring a job that they aren't used to they are scared and tell you to "shoo" i had this problem with SCH, it's the same for DNC to, if you really look at DNCs abilites, you will see they are FAR more useful then one thinks, granted there best use IS low manning, but abilites like fan dance and saber dance, can have big turning points when used properly, and well let's not forget they use TP to heal, and to get tp all you have to do is...hit a mob they are quite handy with dagger WS in the hands of a good player to, so they aren't some lolddjob either, if people can learn to accept a job it would get alot more attention, i personaly think DNC is a great job, not ALL jobs are good for everything, even BLM is useless on some big fights.

[Massimo]

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INSERT URAT'S ENDGAME KNOWLEDGE + AV THERIES POST WITH HIS WHAT, LEVEL 65 DNC/31 NIN post YES DNC CAN TANK ETC ONE BILLION GIL FOR DNC MYTHIC

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EDIT: FOR EMPHASIS

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Don't mess with this guy, he'll fuck you up.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...mo/lolUrat.png

[Devek]

I like having a dancer around.

Can never get too much haste...

[SephYuyX]

It's a good sub for skilling!

[Talint]

Yay! Dancer talk! :D

A good DNC will surprise you. A bad DNC will make you cry. Unlike jobs like BRD or even COR who can do their job naked, a DNC needs to be top of the line to show any effect. Merits and new, good gear choices make dancer much more useful than it has been in the past. It won't (rather: shouldn't) win parses in parties, but feeding the mob TP has become much more of an acceptable trade-off.

I've had no problems being a main heal in a merit party. 2DRG, 2SAM, SCH (with Stormsurge), DNC - got 24ishk/hr. Not your cup of tea if you're one of those 30k+/hr only party types who loves his virtual penis and will only ever Hasso, but this was pretty good for a pickup (and we didn't really attempt Wivres anyway, though we did clear the entire bottom level). Everyone siegan-ed/third eye-ed, and between the SCH's and my buffs, they didn't need to hasso - 10% haste from a merited Haste Samba, +7STR from Firestorm, and an opening Quickstep to help increase their accuracy.

Not that DNC is perfect. I think there's three things a DNC really needs.

First and foremost is another tier of Divine Waltz (Curaga). It's really annoying to be main healing a party, some AoE goes off (Mijin Gakure, in dynamis, let's say), and you have to waste about 160TP over the course of 2 minutes getting your party back up to full HP.

The second is timer adjustments. Having all your cures+erase locked to one job ability is mighty annoying, and kind of crippling.

The third is a raise/reraise jig. Seriously. DNC is more or less locked with /NIN (or possibly /SAM for the more adventurous types, not for me though), and can't sub a mage job like other support jobs to get access to these.

There's other things I'd like to see DNC get, but those aren't necessity as much as they are utility. I've thought about DNC a lot, and it has become one of my favorite jobs. But, yes, people seriously underestimate what a good DNC can do.

(Fun fact: DNC erase can't erase enemy BRD songs. Wtf is that about?)

[Diamicles]

Don't mess with this guy, he'll fuck you up.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...mo/lolUrat.png

At least he doesn't TP in 4/5 or 5/5 dnc af like 75% of the dnc on asura do. (and NO I'm not in that 75%, thank you very much)

edit: I've found that dnc really shines in low man situations, and instanced events. They balance out a pt that needs support for rdm, and give a bit more dd to a pt that is lacking firepower. I really leveled mine for the purpose of using it in low man events, and soloing, where it's an absolute beast.

[Starr]

DNC... not useful at all.

Nuff said

[Diamicles]

DNC on the other hand...I can't pigeonhole this job so it's not useful at all.

I think that's what you were trying to say.

[SephYuyX]

.

Unedited pictures make me sad, atleast use this http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1686/gmrpqx3.png
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1686/gmrpqx3.png