Dancer - 1 year after WotG

[Correction]

I really don't know if the issue lies with DNC but instead the playerbase. We're too set in what we know works and until someone comes along and shows us an alternative we really don't want to try new strategies.

The playerbase figured out that Haste is the strongest way to increase melee efficiency in the game.

DNC provides haste. I don't see this as a problem of perceptions and an unwillingness to consider alternatives.

SE has a way of providing 'support' jobs that really only wind up spamming 1 or 2 of their abilities 90% of the time. So DNC's niche is 'haste bitch.' Much like BRD is 'haste bitch' or 'ballad bitch.' Or BLMs become 'stun bitches' for much of their endgame. The list goes on.

[Akucaen]

DNC is useful anywhere enemy TP gain isn't critical (make/break) and something isn't a massively evasive HNM, simple as. (So basically they do have a legit spot in most of 'endgame' activities.)

[Senji]

Is Urat the OP or something?

[Ultimagi]

I don't see why a Dancer couldn't tank endgame. With Fan Dance and the typical Physical Damage Reduction set, they should be able to keep up.

[Shin Volcano]

Hey SMN is good if you want tpless damage. DNC on the other hand... not useful at all. because i'v never seen a good one nor do i want to level it to understand it better

I fixed it for you, this ones a bonus, thank me later.

In all honesty i thought this same crap...but dnc is not to be underestimated...seriously, if you can find a GOOD DNC watch them, and your whole perspective on it will change for better.

I don't see why a Dancer couldn't tank endgame. With Fan Dance and the typical Physical Damage Reduction set, they should be able to keep up.

The problem with this is fan dance dimishes over time untill it is down to 20% it doesn't stay up full but it does start at 90% even full merited can bring the timer down to 3 minutes, of course you can't use sambas but lol@ that for the price of fan dance.

[Not Kuno]

I duoed with a dnc to 75 and we have two in our LS, one with maats cap and another with amazing gear for all his other jobs too. Dnc never really impressed me all that much, even in stuff like Ein where I think they'd be good.

[Ultimagi]

Even after diminishing, 20% is like having a free Terra's Staff while still being able to equip your daggers. No other job has that capability.

[Shin Volcano]

It could also depend on what you're tanking, cause with DNCs gear 20% may not be enough to save them.

[orinthia]

I've actually taken dnc to things like dynamis beau and proto omega. Granted those aren't very hard to do at all but my main purpose was support since I don't have a mage job. And this will probably keep me from lvling one for a good while heh.

In dynamis, at least while fulltiming relic body, I can see violent flourish (stun flourish) land almost all the time against anything and it'll be stunned for a solid 3-5 seconds. And I can put a stun on almost every mob depending on how quick we're killing. It's the same with proto omega: only time my stun was resisted was when it was already stunned, but then I tried to stack up stutter steps (magic resistance down) so everyone would have an easier time. Though even with sushi I had a hard time just landing hits (no brd/cor)... LS has opened up a little in allowing me a chance to use it so I'll probably see how it does for myself on more things.

It's just an odd job since things like sambas and waltzes only work for the pt the dnc is in. Honestly the biggest thing SE can easily do for dnc is just allow sambas to help anyone that hits the monster and waltzes to be used on others outside of pt. Sure it might not help your zerging drks but everyone else hitting will gain benefit along with instant cast cures of up to 650+hp to anyone. You'd probably pigeon-hole it as another haste bitch as mentioned but you'd only need one then. As is you could get one in each pt of melees that aren't drk and they'd get a big boost with capped haste sambas. Just have to figure out whether the player is better suited coming on dnc or going as another high dmg melee...

[Devek]

I duoed with a dnc to 75 and we have two in our LS, one with maats cap and another with amazing gear for all his other jobs too. Dnc never really impressed me all that much, even in stuff like Ein where I think they'd be good.

A relic great katana swinging at hundred fist speed is pretty impressive to me.

[gamez]

Usage in endgame with tier I & II released for dancer has been slightly expanded, it received the deserving bump it required to bring it up into an opportune level for consideration.

In terms of what they can do for certain events outside of raids like dynamis & limbus, they have a relatively low maintenance holding pets, adds, clean-up, and other useful roles around endgame, I've found dancer to be a good custodian tank in and around the main group.

You're not going to get the same numbers as a paladin, or even a ninja in your ability to hold a higher mob, but having a built in job ability stun, the quality of a third rate evasion with ample amounts of +evasion skill gear available to us, /nin with an easily obtainable 21% haste, self-curing, steps & fan dance gives you everything you need compacted while the rest of your alliance is focusing on something else is the exact attention free kind of support you might want mopping up around things like a wyrm, tier II or III ZNM, or anything in a sticky area full of adds until the damage can assist you in the speed of the kill. Which, is the one thing you're lacking while you're maintaining a self-sufficient soloing on dancer, DPS.

Stepping Dancers aren't required to face the mob during the process of steps if you require or would benefit from the enfeebling but can't handle the extra TP, unless a mob is kited, there isn't any reason to suspect they'll be feeding large amounts of TP during higher straight-tanked events where that may be an issue. If they're generally lazy or don't have access to extended macro during such events, they'll have no need to swap in haste gear between steps as they're not meleeing, and it's all on JA recast(a downside to their waltzes, the recast timer is set in stone and shared, if DNC had one major patch and it was seperation of their waltzes/samba/flourish, it would break them into so much more.)

Wafik already covered haste and other things, but I've been dancer to many events since its release and I've always hunted for the niche that it could fill. If there's one thing I'll comment on though, it's the fact if you ask 90% of DNC to show you their CHR build, it's likely in their locker, muled, or non-existant for their curing, even if it's mediocre as a corsette+1 and some rings/earrings/AF body there's potential for higher curing at an instant then what is typically seen.

edit: just want to point out, a good lot of these things they can participate in are very directly related to the dancer, things like Experimental Lamia, Charbydis, etc, really show your holding and soloing albeit slow, potential.

[miokomioko]

5/5 Saber Dance + 5/5 Haste Samba + 5/5 Reverse Flourish + 5/5 No Foot Rise + Pyrric Kleos is some pretty good damage output when spammed constantly. One of the most annoying things in this game is being "shoo"d away from events because your job "feeds the mob tp." It's definitely a card people pull regardless of whether it's true or not.

-13% defense or evasion with whatever the -evasion % is for Pyrric Kleos is nothing to scoff at on higher NMs as long as they can be hit dependably. Violent Flourish (especially with relic body) is another thing that's often overlooked. A semi-dependable JA stun without a 1000 minute recast can save lives, and I definitely have.

One last comment is that drain samba during the beginnings of a salvage run is rather hax. Waltzes are semi gimped due to the CHR/VIT calculations, but drain samba isn't affected by the pathos. Quite useful if you have a ally slot that's not pivotal to the success of the run and it's a cell-happy zone.

[eva00r]

You're saying that DNC can solo Charbydis ?

[Sho]

The thing I see is that DNC tends to fill a few niches that haven't really been filled before. I mean, no one even knew mobs had a "Magic Evasion" (it would seem like common sense because of "Magic Accuracy", but no one really contemplated it) stat up until DNC was introduced, and now along with Death Blossom, they fill that role of destroying the stat for a huge mage benefit. It's really something good and oft overlooked now.

From there, there's the JA Haste for 1 handers in zergs like Wafik mentioned, and then it can single target cure for up to 600~700 HP and further more a semi potent Stun on a lower recast timer than the spell, much like Head Butt.

I don't believe so much into Fan Dance tanking, but it can definitely hold its own vs some NMs where evasion and self healing comes in handy (think like Charybidis). Also very sexy in Dynamis/Limbus/Enherjar, like some others have mentioned.

[gamez]

I didn't say that, but I did say you can get hit in the face pretty legitimately by charbydis just like any other high evader, though I'm not discouraging somebody to give it a try, it'd be one long as hell fight.

[Bingbong]

You're saying that DNC can solo Charbydis ?

I'd take a guess that eventually, yes, you will see a DNC solo Charby.

Subtle Blow
Evasion bonus
the ability to heal.

A good dancer with some serious equipment might have a shot. It would take damn near 2 hours, but yes, I think someone could solo Charby on DNC.

Honestly, that shouldn't be the measuring stick of job worthiness though, as there aren't many jobs that can solo the elite NM's.

[Trigun]

Does meriting count as end-game activity?

A few late nights/early morning I got an invite from a DNC and we were pwning "bird camp". Setup was DD, DD, DD, DD, DD, DNC. T'was awesome. One of the times he invited there was a WAR in the PT and was bitching, he left when I got to camp.

[Genosync]

Really wanted to see DNC COR COR BRD(/nin, full melee build, Mordant Rime/Blau Dolch) BRD(pulling, /nin) RDM at bird camp; might have the highest XP possible if no one's on bottom so you can have enough mobs (including the Wivres, it's very very easy with COR COR BRD BRD RDM and some gimp melee to clear middle level mobs completely).

Hardly any CORs though that can play it right (Joy/Kris/Martial+/nin+Fold4/5+SnakeEye5+playing it old school ranger style), and then it's hard to find a Bard with the full complete melee set/WS set and Rime unlocked, AND have a blau, and then it's even harder to find the Dancer that's worth taking there (Haste Samba 5/5, Kelos, etc).

Oh well.

[Seibar]

i tried solo'n charby on dnc when i first hit 75 .... it didn't go too well as i imagined.

bugbear for the rutter boots ive solo'd, and just about everything in outdoor sea besides UFOs can be meleed down. the flowers inside sea are good too, and decent xp while farming for JoF pops. alky/pallas etc easily, though i usually just go thf for the th4.

basically, dnc can be a solo god. just like nin/dnc is good, dnc/nin is great also. fan dance and saber dance made dnc even more fun, having perm-stoneskin for when shadows fall is awesome.

i tried charby on my new 75 before i really knew wtf i was doing, don't remember if i tried stunning or anything, it was mainly to see my evasion build + dnc healing potential.


like i've suggested before; imagine how useless and unwanted whms and schs would be if they could -only- cure, haste, erase, -na spell, etc their own party. SE screwed over dnc's letting us only cure our own party, at least give us alliance cures gdi!

[Gaea]

Fully merited dancers who took the time to equip their job well do just fine in Nyzul Isle and Salvage. Dancers can co-tank chariot bosses (not tested with LBC) with a monk using the cures to get hate. This can add about 2-5 minutes to the fight. Having a ranger with you keeps it closer to the 2 minute mark. Have your thief spam Collaborator on the Ranger every 60 seconds.

Salvage 8 person setup with DNC: MNK DNC WHM RDM BRD | RNG THF RDM
With the exception of LBC there shoudn't be anything you can't do. Use Haste Samba when dealing with undead. Use it on everything too when you have adequate healing. LBC should be possible with a really good DNC and MNK and if its fully NERFed.

Nyzul Isle: MNK SAM DNC WAR BLU RDM
This would more than suffice. I do a similar setup that omits the Dancer for another Monk. The extra DoT isn't really needed and only means extra floors. With a dancer, you should clear 5 just fine and you get the luxury of having the blue mage not have to double exclusively as a healer/stunner.