Please pray for Dreriont of Asura.

[Kuya]

Ya Im sure the sick and dying dont want to get better.

Also, it wasnt the Mayo clinic, it was Duke university, my mistake.

BBC NEWS | Health | Prayer 'no aid to heart patients'

Oh, i thought you were denying the "placebo" effect of prayers.

[Kohan]

I've been adding to it this entire time, I wouldn't do that.

Cow_k

Cowk

Cawk

Cock?

???

Profit

One of the best posts in the entire thread, without question.

[Kaylia]

I'd hate to add something useful and ontopic here but in all honesty that 2nd point is pretty important. If he was told that BG was praying for him and whatnot, it might up his spirits somewhat, give him a strength boost, a little confidence, which is quite important when fighting something. If he's depressed, and already in a weak state, then he's at higher risk.

I still think this is retarded and belongs elsewhere even though I just contradicted myself.

I quoted this thinking there would be something to argue, but I agree 100%... with both part.

Unless he is dying this week, contributing to research can only help. It is very possible most of the diseases we currently have as a species will be cured in our lifetime, via proper research and funding.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong because I'm in no way an expert in the medical field, but I don't think meningitis treatment last this long.

His friend will be out (or dead) long time before the money reach a research center.

[Cow_k]

You're actually about 5 years late on the Cock thing. Trust me when I say that you've discovered nothing new > Cowk: Sylph.

As far as the study goes, what I was trying to say is that if someone really did believe in God and they thought that prayers could maybe influence God to help them in their favor, I don't see how that could end up giving a negative impact unless after time passed and they didn't get better they thought God had abandoned them etc. I could see a truly religious person being more depressed about not having anyone pray for them than otherwise.

Something like this is definitely an 'eye of the beholder' sort of thing, especially if someone already knows that their condition is critical. All that news story basically says is that things that make people feel good can potentially have an effect on medical recovery.

[Kaylia]

Ya Im sure the sick and dying dont want to get better.

Also, it wasnt the Mayo clinic, it was Duke university, my mistake.

BBC NEWS | Health | Prayer 'no aid to heart patients'

I was looking for this article. Thanks

Also, more importantly, reference the Mayo clinic's double blind study where they prayed for 50% of heart patients and told half of each segment they were praying for them. Obviously there was no difference in recovery/death rates between the 2 segments, however it was noted that people that were told they were getting prayed for had more complications, perhaps because they thought their condition was more serious.

Here is my reply to this
BBC NEWS | Health | Prayer 'no aid to heart patients'


I know this much, and I already said a few time that "positive thinking isn't going to heal you" in this thread. However, dying people still deserve psychological support, and most psychologue would agree it help facing those events.

[Kuya]

Prayers tend to have a sort of placebo effect on people, specifically, for those who actually believe prayers work. It tends to have the effect of raising stamina and the immune system. Conversely, a feeling of hopelessness or depression tends to have the opposite effect.

[Zhais]

This thread is awesome.

[Boyiee]

Prayers tend to have a sort of placebo effect on people, specifically, for those who actually believe prayers work. It tends to have the effect of raising stamina and the immune system. Conversely, a feeling of hopelessness or depression tends to have the opposite effect.

For anyone doubting this, have you ever seen those zomg super crazy religious people that think when the priest touches them, the power of god goes through them, and the people are healed?

People think it's a miracle. I don't know the religion, although I do know of a born again church near me that I've treated patients from that have straight out said "I felt God in me, he took me over" etc etc. It was quite interesting to say the least, the worst part was when asked my name, my coworker blurted out "Timothy", for whatever reason she calls me Timothy instead of Tim which everyone else calls me. Of course this lady after hearing a religious name looked like she was about to stroke out, she did a real life double take. Looked at me, looked away, then Looked back quickly. Like holy shit, this whole experience was a miracle, God sent Timothy to save me.

Oh and Cow_k I had assumed that the joke had been made before, but I didn't see it in the thread yet so it was fair game. There were a few JP players on Kujata back in the day with similar names.

[Chicomagiko]

Maybe Op's buddy should look into getting cyberized. No more diseases!

[Samu]

Read the thread in general, read the response thread in spam, came back to read again in general. This thread owns.

[Artemas]

I saw this thread this morning and thought, 'aw, kinda sweet.. wow, there are some even almost sincere hopes of that guy getting better'.

Eighteen hours later, it has degenerated to muffins, dicks and fingers in asses.
Only here.

Carry on.


P.S.- Hope your friend gets better, but modern medicine has come a long way from the Dark Ages.

[BerenTebogo]

I was watching Tower of Druaga this morning...

Damn Ki is cute

[BerenTebogo]

Also, Gurfurlur would be pleased.

http://www13.atwiki.jp/bartlett/?plugin=ref&serial=1426

[Neosutra]

Good morning.

Getting ready for work, so I dont have time to type a book here, but I wanted to address one point:

A few people here have stated that they realize that prayer wont actually physically help this guys friend, but have taken the lines that a person knowing they are being prayed for can take psycological fortitude in that concept and increase their wellbeing/happiness and perhaps feel/get more healthy through it.

I have a couple comments on this for you to think about. One: If you reference that duke university study, people that were told they were getting prayed for actually had no positive improvements (actually a larger number of negative degradations oddly enough). Perhaps the people in the study just didnt "believe" enough, but that seems to be the easy out answer when prayers dont work - "oh you just didnt have enough faith".

One of the big points ive made in the last few religious threads is one of the most prominent error in religion is the replacement of physical real world foundations with metaphysical ones. People who replace friends/family/support groups for the concept of a big brother that watches over them and has the power to heal. No doubt that people can find comfort in these perceptions, however everyone here will admit that real people and real support provide more solid foundations, not to mention the actual ability to influence events in our world. An achoholic can state that he isnt in control and give his life to a higher power, but what really keeps him off the juice is his will to not go back to that, combined with his real life family/friends/AA support group.

The same goes for prayer. What if we spent this time physically making his friend feel better? Making videos wishing our support, writing letters, going to see him. I know many people here have stated that funding research wont help someone dying this week, but there are still many other real world solutions we can do to make this person feel better. It all goes back down to actions over intent. Prayer is the easy way out, the placebo effect for us, not the patient, to allow us to feel we are contributing w/o actually having to do anything.

I tried to make sure I didnt have any insults in this response, as believe it or not, I didnt post here to start an argument. I would just like a few of you to try and look at it from another perspective and think about some physical things you could do to help this person, if you care enough to do it.

[Maxxthepenguin]

When you talk about the placebo effect, surely you aren't talking about the one where real effects happen from fake causes. Prayer helps people with greiving and helps them deal with the tough emotions that come with deadly disease and sickness. It is a placebo yes, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[kuronosan]

Yea, I don't believe prayer is particularly a bad thing.

It's when you substitute it for action that it's a bad thing.

Kind of like those parents who refused to give their daughter medical attention because the "lord was going to save her and we prayed".

Sometimes, if you do believe in God, and he is going to save someone, he gives other sorts of signs, you know?

Maybe for you, OP, God is telling you that instead of coming to a message board hoping mass prayer will save your friend, that our answers to you and the ignorant bickering taking place will motivate you to get off of your ass and do more than just let someone else do the work for you.

I'm sure your friend will feel better from prayer. A lot of people take comfort in it. Prayer, however, is not going to save him.

[Maxxthepenguin]

It's kind of like the parable of the man who survived a flood on the top of his roof. He spent his days praying that God would save him from being stuck up there. One day, rickety canoe came by offering to pick him up. He said no, God would save him. The canoe left. He spent all night praying for a miracle to be saved. The next day, a helicopter came overhead that would have seen him if he tried to signal it down, but he decided to pray instead, for a miracle. When he died of hunger, he asked god why he wasn't saved. God said, "You were sent a canoe and a helicopter. What the hell were you waiting for?!?"

Moral: Even if you have faith, be pragmatic and take the real answer to your problems.

[yotevol]

Well, I have news about Dreriont.
He is doing a lot better, but he's not out of the woods yet.
Right now, he's pretty pumped on antibiotics.

Kaykins printed out the thread by copying it and deleting all of the negative responses.

Someone once stated that Laughter, is the best medicine.
When someone is facing a potentionally life threatening problem, statistics show that those that have people that care, friends and family, around them often give them a better fighting chance at survival.

My friend, Kaykins, has decided to choose a route that includes positive responses from threads such as this, since she can't physically touch him through his treatment.

So, when visiting hours allow, she sits there and talks with him while giving him things like this. Also, when she visits, he responds positively when they talk about FFXI.

I know, if I were in his situation, and a loved one came to visit, the last thing I would want to talk about would be what's wrong with me and how much pain I am in. So, FFXI talks are good. I'm glad it's a topic they share and brings him a smile during her visit.

Thank you again, to everyone that actually cares.

Respectfully,
~Yotevol

[Chicomagiko]

Guys, I cut my finger making a sandvich. It might get infected and I might possibly, die from the infection. Please, pray for me. Meanwhile, I'll ask my gf to play on my WoW account in hopes of alleviating her stress. Lord knows that this is traumatizing for us all.

~Chicomagiko

[Mizango]

It's kind of like the parable of the man who survived a flood on the top of his roof. He spent his days praying that God would save him from being stuck up there. One day, rickety canoe came by offering to pick him up. He said no, God would save him. The canoe left. He spent all night praying for a miracle to be saved. The next day, a helicopter came overhead that would have seen him if he tried to signal it down, but he decided to pray instead, for a miracle. When he died of hunger, he asked god why he wasn't saved. God said, "You were sent a canoe and a helicopter. What the hell were you waiting for?!?"

Moral: Even if you have faith, be pragmatic and take the real answer to your problems.

Teach me the ways.