Ghorn, Aegis? Help me decide.

[kayn]

People are calling the shield just an inv space saver due to the Magic Dmg- on it, what about all that jazz about blocking like a size 1 and eating dmg like a size 4? that's got to be worth something.

And what Xanthe said, Gjaller is just a space saver and MP+ tool. It may push you up a tier on march, but all I can say is "sweet! another 0.02% haste!"

I believe Aegis blocks with the rate of a size 3 not a size 1.

[MarkM.]

If you aren't doing a Guttler GTFO.

[Kimkytaru]

I have my opinion too beeing a blm I would love to have a relic brd in my pt (did some exp pt with one and it's amazing really). However I think you should listen to people like tekki or wafik because they know what they talking about since they had it in ls. Opinions from people that dont own them/dont have them in ls is worthless.

[Mafai]

Horn is game breaking. Hopefully your bard likes playing it if hes upgrading it.

[Xanthe]

Horn isn't that game breaking. I've solo WHM'd Tiamat with and without Gjallarballad with little to no resting in either case. Does it make things easier? Sure. Honestly /SCH is more "game breaking" than Gjallarballad.

[Neosutra]

I believe Aegis blocks with the rate of a size 3 not a size 1.

Correct, and wiki needs to be changed, because im tired of correcting people when they mis-represent Aegis Q.Q.

However, Aegis isnt just a "easily replaced gear swap". It WILL save your tank's life and help boost what you are capable of handling (gives you a larger margin of error). However Horn will net you more utility.

Do horn, then decide between Aegis and some weapons to speed up your kills.

[Wulfgang]

I would say choose the person who has the greatest cash flow (since you stated attendance is a non-issue).

I've been through (as an LS member) 2 Excaliburs, 1 Aegis, 1 Kikoku and the only reason I found the process tolerable is that, outside of sponsoring dynamis, the relics were almost entirely self-funded with some minor loans towards the end.

[Gatsby]

Given the 2 choices above, my LS would prefer the GHorn. We are at 10 active relics with a good mix of Aegis/Ghorns/Melee. If our 2 GHorns were not as active as they are, we would have done another but its all dependent on what events you do as Wafik stated.

For survivability, a GHorn is fantastic. It allows for a wider margin of error and goofs before shit hits the fan. For a tanking party it replaces the "need" of doing RDM COR BRD and you can substitute RDM SCH BRD (AOE Stoneskin). A BLM party with GHorn is where it really shines. You will pull hate as a BLM long before you run out of MP. A melee party Ghorn is good but as great as the above 2 situations.

I'm trying to limit my debates to the OP's original statement so many of my comments may seem out of whack to hardcore endgamers.

Our LS has stated that we consider GHorn to be the most broken relic in the game for our purposes. If you do decide to step up into HNMing, the GHorn will serve you much better in the long run.

[Aquilo86]

Going to have to agree that horn is the best choice here, though a weapon would be sooooooooooooo much cooler. Horn is more beneficial for everyone and you don't NEED an Aegis to tank anything like a pro, its all gravy.

[Thorny]

people saying horn is overrated probably aren't thinking about all options it opens up, turning 3 mp/click into 7 is kind of a big deal.. if you are okay on mp, take a cor out of the tank party and put them with the blms or melee ... melee relics add 5-15% to a single melee's damage over time, brd relic more than doubles what a brd does for mages.

[Xanthe]

Never had a COR in the tank party, personally. We usually give those to the BLMs for MAB/MAcc/Refresh combos. WHM RDM BRD and an optional second BRD for tanks depending on availability.

[Darkmoon]

Imo:

Do Horn first, its going to effect more events and situations then Aegis. We have both in the LS and by far the Horn has helped the level of play a lot more then the shield. We dont do 3hr HNMs, we do do the occasinal Wyrm, and your typical Einherjar/Dynamis/Limbus/ZNM/Sky/Sea etc.

The only use for horn is +2 Ballads, "space saver" or "Melee songs" are not reasons to get it. Just Ballads. +4/tick on Tanks, Healers, BLMs all make things very very nice.

As far as Weapons we have found that Yochi is very very powerful in our shell. The damage it can produce on mobs that Melee damage sucks on is insane, add the basically hate free Namas, and its a beast.

In the end, Relics arent needed to do anything in FFXI, they just make things easier and let you do things diffrent then your typical setups.

[Zosi]

Upgrade relics for people, not jobs. It's more valuable to your LS to have a dedicated, worthy person with a relic regardless of job* than to just give horns and shields to your bards and tanks "because they benefit the whole LS". A properly-used melee relic benefits the whole LS too, it's just easier to be a BRD ballad+2bot than a smart melee.

That said, ignore all of it and get a horn, it's like crack for your mages. I'd throw both of our Bravuras under a train for another horn. Sorry Slight and Muffins, you can't give me my Ballad fix.

* - Almost regardless of job, Claustrums, Mjollnirs and Guttlers can fuck off and pay for their own relics.

[Kurt Cobain]

from someone with both excalibur and aegis, go with the horn

[Spekkio]

this is actually something i'd been pondering a while now as i'd been working towards a horn but i'm getting some strong pressure from my ls to abort that and switch to shield. shellra V capped at 5/5 is 70/256 so you'd need only another 58/256 to cap mdt, or about another 22-23% (i forget the figure) which shouldn't be THAT hard to hit (and if you miss it by 1-2%, big woop.) yes. it does open up other slots for MDB, but at that point you're questionably getting into the "win more" category which while nice is unnecessary. the block rate/reduction bonus is nice, but since it's equal to a size 3 shield, you won't block more (you should already be capped on block rate, no?) just for more damage and only when shadows are down or bloodtanking, both of which you generally shoot to minimize.

meanwhile, the relic brd enables your mages to have more survivability without having to hit the deck to get some MP back leaving your tanks totally unsupported. if the tank gets decked for an extra 100 or 150 damage b/c they had to use gearslots for MDT instead of MDB, you cure them a little more. if your tank is breakgaed and getting eaten but you can't get up in time to stona, well you screwed. this doesn't even begin to touch on the advantage of converting enmity to the limiting factor on blm damage instead of MP due to the more than doubling of the MP output.

my situation is a bit different though. we already have 1 relic brd in the LS, but we have no aegis. logically this would dictate that i should make the aegis instead of the horn, but i think i've decided against that course for 2 reasons. first, my pld isn't 75 yet. no, i'm not gonna wop and ding into an aegis. that's not the plan. i'm at 62 and rising quickly, but the downside of being so recently pld 75 would be that the rest of my gear would be underwhelming. i have an ares body waiting in the wings to complete when my pld hits 75, but nothing for af2, no assjammer, none of the other usual kit that makes a pedestrian pld into a solid pld. second, i'm a taru. ^^

if anyone has any comments on my decision however, i'm curious to hear what you have to say. my coin is uncommitted at this point (if nothing else, it makes it easier to loan out to others to help them complete) so changing is still an option, though i'd have to figure out what to do with about 1500 extra shells.

[S N K]

[B]To me I found the Mandau and Amanomurakumos in our LS to give us more DD power thus more killspeed in our regular events.

People let a THF do DDing at events instead of sitting on the sidelines? /2004

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Let me fill you with how our party are usually build:

tank
tank
rdm
whm
dd
dd

cor
brd
blm
blm
blm

dd
dd

The COR in BLM party is if we're lucky with attendance, it's usually just a rdm. I never said attendance wasn't an issue, but me and shell leader have both never missed an event. And the 2 tank is also if we're lucky, we do have more PLDs but honnestly my co-tank is team gallant and rarely pulls hate off me and he can go DD.

[vagus]

Whoever you think won't quit the game sooner and let him decide.

[Damane]

just /random period

[SubzeroDiabolos]

just /random period

I actually proposed that, got rejected lol.