Ghorn, Aegis? Help me decide.

[Gatsby]

In response to Spekkio, my LS did 2 GHorns as our first LS relics. We have always been a BLM heavy LS so this relic helps the LS more than the norm. Our first relic brd goes to the tank party no matter what. This allows our tanks to spam their hate tools at a much faster rate and even cure other ally members when AOEs hit them.

In terms of Aegis over GHorn, we have 2 Aegii (??) in our LS. Half the time one of them comes BLM the other half the other one goes SAM/MNK. Are Aegii useful? yes but not as useful as the GHorn in our LS.

[Thorny]

Let me fill you with how our party are usually build:

tank
tank
rdm
whm
dd
dd

cor
brd
blm
blm
blm

dd
dd

The COR in BLM party is if we're lucky with attendance, it's usually just a rdm. I never said attendance wasn't an issue, but me and shell leader have both never missed an event. And the 2 tank is also if we're lucky, we do have more PLDs but honnestly my co-tank is team gallant and rarely pulls hate off me and he can go DD.

You only have one brd in your alliance and no BRD or COR in tank party?

[SubzeroDiabolos]

I go PLD to 99,99999999% of the time. We are not BLM heavy. Tank party never run out of mp really either, only when I don't have TP for chivalry or no devotion up and that happens, but very rarely. If we had a SAM or 2 with shikikoyo tanks running out of mp would never happen.

[Gatsby]

To SubzeroDiabolos,

If that's how your parties are built, the GHorn will be the better relic. Bard swapping between the tanks and the BLMs would allow you to really fly through the mobs. My Ls does a similar setup (depending on the mob).

(Caveats: I've always been a mage so I'm more sentimental toward magery than DD)

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Well looks like horn wins Fuck you guys lol where's the ?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Do neither. Shield is little more than epeen for elite players an horn is a neat item that dooms the player with it for all eternity. As cool as both items sound, I'd find a dedicated mele and do a weapon.

edit: if you really want to do something for the pld, get him/her the burtgang. As crappy as the mythics are, can't really complain about the stats listed on the weapon.

It takes a hefty degree of ignorance to speak of Aegis as if it were a novelty, while advocating Burtgang as if it were god's gift to tanking.

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Not to mention mythics are completely out of the question lol.

[Burginator]

Now a personal opinion of someone who had over 10 relics in his LS before we got BAMMED, the "utility" relics were both pretty meh in comparison to the weapons. We too were a non HNMLS , endgame events yes, but the only real HNM we killed was Ixion, and even then we didn't do it many times. If you're like my LS where a lot of your events revolve around Dynamis/Limbus/Nyzul/Salvage/ZNM/Sea & Sky farms and the sort, a weapon did a great deal more due to faster killspeeds and bigger skillchains - all that time adds up. On the other hand if you manaburn everything (we didn't) then different story.

Remember I am from a perspective of not touching HNMs - the highest we did were T4 ZNM, JoL, Ixion, KS99 mobs. I am not sure how super duper either of these relics are on HNMs, but from my experience with them I doubt they're anything special unless you are setting yourself up for artificial challenges such as low manning.

Just speaking about Dynamis here, but -- A few well geared DDs skillchaining with relic holders will seriously increase your killspeed in Dynamis -- Doing 20 person SanD runs with Wafik, but having the same killspeed as my previous Dyna LS (40+ people every run) was something that really blew me away. Some nice lights/darknesses with Mandau/Amanomurakumo reaaaaally jacked up the killspeed. But I think this only really applies if you have smaller numbers, or people will just fuck it up constantly.

I think with all the refresh that's in the game now, Gjallarhorn has lost much of its luster. With evoker's/ballad/refresh/refresh gear, etc. there's not as potent a need as there once was. Go for a weapon, imo.

[Baha]

If you don't do HNM I don't really see a need for Horn. It shines mostly in a tank pt, for a BLM pt, going to give a huge meh there. A lot of the content isn't really BLM friendly so tossing them more mp in events they don't hold up to melee seems a bit meh. If most of your events are BLM friendly, it's - of course - a valid reason.

Like said previously, upgrade the person, not the job. Horn and shield over weapons is arguable, and even more so when you don't do HNM. If those two are the people most deserving, be thankful that you avoided that whole discussion in your LS. ;p

[SubzeroDiabolos]

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a weapon to anyone mainly due to the fact that: Some are loyal there's no doubt to that, but it happens that there are days they're not on because of whatever reason or just have to go afk long time during events, or sometimes having to skip weeks of event. Atm we have I don't know how many members that are gonna be out for a while.

I'm not going to deny horn's usefullness, but i'm not willing to agree that aegis is only a personnal gain. We have little number of DDs to buff, small to medium (never over a full pt really) amount of BLMs to refresh. I don't think horn would save us any downtime what so ever except for situation like Jailer of justice, where honnestly it's the only place I could see it shine over an aegis.

[astura]

It eventually comes down to how much dmg and hate can you produce with either. A horn allows blms to nuke longer, your tanks to spam a lot more hate tools and keep the back line and front line putting out more dmg as a whole. A shield on the other hand is one person's increase in hate and doesn't allow as much dmg potential over time as a horn does.
Horn will always increase hate tool usage and dmg potential for everyone. A shield doesn't increase hate tools usage for a tank nor guarantee more dmg from anyone else.

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Right now the main argument we're having is

Ghorn = overall kill speed
Aegis = survivability as a whole

The way I see it is maybe shield is just for one person but if shit hits the fan (and it does alot to us) we have a better chance at going through it with a shield. Am I just plain wrong with that idea?

[Kurt Cobain]

pretty sure BG decided to upgrade bikkwins sword based on a random, that worked out for them, go with that

[astura]

If shits hitting the fan neither will save you. This its self is more a of a problem with the strategy or its execution of players. Shield just means you don't have to actively swap to a MDT set with shell 5 if its oh shit magic dmg. If its melee dmg shield just gives you a slightly higher dmg reduction then a normal shield would. Horn wont make a difference on tank or healers to help get cures off or prevent this anyways (if elegy was needed you would be /blm anyways to es troub it) unless it would prevent them from resting to focus more on stuns/heals etc. Again a problem that horn won't overcome as well that cant be solved with job swapping.
Either way if its about pulling through oh shit neither one helps obviously more then other. The only advantage here is that if you can kill it quicker to minimize the chances these oh shit situations happen. Pulling through these is a group effort and no relic will change what people chose to do in that situation.
If tanks alive but no DD then your not killing it and allowing more oh shit to happen. If tanks dead DD wont be able to step up and tank as effectively as that dedicated tank but could still possibly kill it if needed (and solving the problem of it being alive).

[Shinryuu]

The only true utility relic besides the horn, the shield, and the mythic sword is apocalypse, IMO. Do horn or apocalypse if your tanks never, ever die in whatever event you currently do.

[Valisk]

Sell currency to cash in for your members.

^

[kayn]

It takes a hefty degree of ignorance to speak of Aegis as if it were a novelty, while advocating Burtgang as if it were god's gift to tanking.

Shit's situational?
Unless you're going to argue that the Aegis will do more for a pld than the burtgang in dynamis, limbus, einherjar, and salvage (lolpldwut?)

Also, I have no idea how you construed what I said into that "sword is god's gift to plds".

[Valisk]

"atonement is god's gift to plds".

Fixed

[chapstick]

I'm gonna go with the "upgrade a solid weapon for a dedicated DD".

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Are you guys even reading my posts? >_<

Quote from myself: I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a weapon to anyone mainly due to the fact that... [blah blah]

There's no point giving first relic to a DRK that would not show up/be late all the time, even if it's not his fault.

Leave mythics out of this please.