SE's billing policy

[Rhianu]

Okay, I apologize in advance for the massive wall of text, but this is something I feel needs to be said.

Now, as you're probably already aware, FINAL FANTASY XI, like many MMORPGs, has a monthly subscription fee that everyone who plays the game must pay if they want to continue playing. This is called a pay-to-play subscription plan, and is a common method of billing for a wide variety of monthly services. However, there is something different about this subscription plan in FINAL FANTASY XI. A rather severe problem, in fact. What is that problem, you ask? Well it's simple. The problem is that, unlike every other monthly service out there, Square-Enix does not pro-rate the monthly fee for FINAL FANTASY XI. They pro-rate for brand new accounts, but not for reactivated accounts.

Let's say you quit the game for a while and then later decide that you want to playing again. What this means for you is that if you happened to reactivate your account in the middle of the month, you will be charged for the entire month, even though your account was only active for part of it. Even if you reactivate on the very last day of the month, you will still get charged for the entire month! The fact that Square-Enix is so horribly sloppy with they way they handle their billing is where the problem lies.

Faulty Argument #1:
You're in the real world now. You actually have to think about money issues.

Um... yeah, that's kind of why I'm complaining about FINAL FANTASY's monthly fee here. Having to worry about money isn't the same thing as throwing your money away. With the way Final Fantasy's billing system is set up, it's possible for Square-Enix to charge you money for game-time that you never received.

Every other month-to-month billing situation that I know of pro-rates. Anything I pay for: cable or satellite TV, internet, cell-phone, rent, etc. are all pro-rated if I activated or reactivated the service in the middle of the month. It's a fair-business practice.

I recently purchased a new cell-phone plan 10 days into a billing cycle for that month. I only payed for 21 days that month.

A few months ago I switched internet service providers. I activated my internet 3 days before a month ended. I only payed for 3 days.

It's not the same as saying things like, "Well, I should only pay for internet when I'm using it. I shouldn't have to pay when I'm not logged on." You pay for the time a service is provided to you. Even when you're not online, the internet company is still providing the service to you, you're just not using it. However, if your account was not active for part of a month, the company was not providing a service to you and therefore (in most cases) they don't charge you for it. In fact, most reputable companies will subtract from your bill if you experience a service outage. Last month my internet went out for a day. I called the cable company and they took off a percentage from my bill for that the month for the time outage disrupted my internet. It's called GOOD SERVICE.

You'd be pretty annoyed if you moved into a new apartment on the 15th of the month, and you had to pay the full month's rent. That's why things are pro-rated.

Faulty Argument #2:
There are 744 hours in a 31 day month. Do you honestly expect Square-Enix to hire people to add up all the hours that each customer spends playing and bill everyone based on that?

Okay, first off, they wouldn't need to hire anyone to do that. Their computer systems could keep track of all that data automatically.

Second, I'm not asking for Square-Enix to bill people based on the exact number of hours that they actually spend playing the game, although that would be nice, but it's not really necessary. What is necessary though, and what I'm asking them to do is to only charge people for time periods during which their accounts were actually active. You know, kinda like every other pay-to-play MMO on the face of the earth?

Faulty Argument #3:
If you don't wait until the start of a new billing cycle to reactivate, then that's your own fault, not Square-Enix's.

What, you're telling me that if it's the middle of the month, and I get the urge to play the game again and I want to reactivate my account, that I should have to wait two weeks for the new billing cycle to start? Come on, don't be retarded.

I mean, yes, I do generally wait anyway, but the point is I shouldn't have to, nor should anyone else. I don't have to wait until the start of the next month if I want reactivate my account with any other MMORPG. Why should I have to wait with FFXI?

I should be able to renew my account whenever I feel like it, without having to worry about being charged for times when my account was inactive. If I'm paying a company to provide me with a monthly service, then I expect them to only charge me for days on which they actually provided me with that service.

Faulty Argument #4
$12.95 isn't a lot of money. You shouldn't be complaining about it.

$12.95 isn't a lot of money, true. But that doesn't mean I'm going to take $12.95 out of my pocket and burn the bills just for the hell of it. It's the principle of the matter that's important here, not the amount of money involved. I already went over this when I refuted the first faulty argument about how being careful with money isn't the same thing as throwing your money away.

I'm perfectly willing to pay $12.95 a month for a quality service. What I am not willing to do is take $12.95 and flush it down the toilet for no good reason. If you don't mind pissing your money away, then hey, that's your own decision. Just don't ask me to do it with you.

Faulty Argument #5
Other MMORPGs don't prorate their monthly fees.

Other MMORPGs generally use a totally different billing system that makes pro-rating completely unnecessary. In fact, FFXI is the only MMORPG I know of that charges based on the calendar month. Every other MMORPG that I've seen uses a system called the 30-day billing cycle. The way it works is this: rather than being charged by the calendar month, subscribers are billed in 30 day intervals, with the exact billing date changing for each individual customer to accommodate for when each specific person signed up or reactivated his or her account.

For example, if I reactivated my WoW account on March 15th, I would pay for 30 days of playtime right then, and would not be billed again until April 13th, which is exactly 30 days after March 15th. That way, if I decide to take a break from the game for a month or two, and then decide to come back in the middle of the month, I never get charged for any of the time that my account was inactive and I was unable to play.

In FFXI, however, if I reactivated my account on March 15th, I wouldn't get charged anything right away, which at first seems kinda nice, but then on April 1st, Square-Enix would charge me for the entire month of March, even though my account was only active for 15 days that month. And then they would also take out an advance payment for the entire month of April, so I'd have to pay for two months at once. Now I wouldn't really mind paying for two months at once, so long as they prorated the monthly fee for the partial month. But they don't prorate at all, which is really bad customer service.

Now I suppose charging by the calendar month isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but if you do things that way, then you need to pro-rate the fee. Every other company I know of that charges for a continual monthly service will prorate the fee. Square-Enix is the only company I know of that doesn't. Their customer service is terrible.

Faulty Argument #6
If you're still playing, you're obviously satisfied with the service.

No, I'm satisfied with the game's story-line and many aspects of the gameplay, and am willing to put up with the piss-poor customer service so that I may enjoy the storyline and gameplay. But that doesn't mean I'm satisfied with the service, nor does it mean I should have to put up with the poor service. Yes, I do put up with it, but I shouldn't have to. I should never have to put up with poor customer service from any company.

Faulty Argument #7
If you don't like it, then quit the game.

Right, I should stop playing the game completely just because I don't like one little thing. I guess only people who think the game is perfect should be allowed to play it.

Hey, do you think that some of the job classes in the game are unbalanced? Well too bad! Go play a different game if you don't like it!

Do you think drop rates on HNMs are too low? Well too bad! Go play a different game if you don't like it!

Is inventory space an issue? Well too bad! Go play a different game if you don't like it!

Are you sometimes annoyed when you can't find a party and end up having to log off without getting anything done? Well too bad! Go play a different game if you don't like it!

Do you think the user-interface is lacking in a lot of ways? Well too bad! Go play a different game if you don't like it!

Seriously, telling someone to quit the game completely just because they don't like a particular aspect is never a valid argument. Ever. Hell, I'm sure every single one of you has SOMETHING you don't like about the game. Maybe you should all just stop playing, hmm?

Seriously though, the problem with the monthly fee is annoying, yes, but not so annoying to the point where it's worth quitting the game over. However, it is annoying enough to make it worth complaining about and asking that SE should change their policy on it, which is what I'm doing.

Faulty Argument #8
It allows them to bill everyone at the same time.

Yeah? So what? Why would they want to bill everyone at the same time? I'm sorry, but I just cannot see how that would provide any sort of financial advantage for the company whatsoever.

Faulty Argument #9
It allows the company to take the servers down every month for maintenance.

The servers should never be taken down for maintenance unless there's a new update for the game or something breaks. There is absolutely no reason why the servers should have to be taken down simply to process all the monthly payments. No other MMORPG does that. Final Fantasy XI shouldn't do it, either.

Faulty Argument #10:
They make more money by charging for the entire month.

No they don't. It's poor customer service. I don't know what kind of crazy fantasy world you live in, but here in the real world, poor customer service NEVER makes more money for ANY company.

Faulty Argument #11:
Pro-rating the monthly fee would require a massive overhaul to the billing system.

No it wouldn't. In fact, Square-Enix already pro-rates the monthly fee for brand new accounts if their free-trial-period ends in the middle of the month, so Square-Enix's system is obviously capable of handling pro-rating no problem. They just need to adjust their system slightly so that the pro-rating affects reactivated accounts as well, instead of just new ones.

Faulty Argument #12:
Square-Enix clearly states in their Terms of Service contract (ToS) that the monthly fee is NOT pro-rated.

Okay, I saved this argument for last, simply because it's the dumbest one of them all. First off, no Square-Enix does NOT say anything about pro-rating in their Terms of Service. I read the ToS, there is nothing in it that says anything about pro-rating. Second, even if it did say that they don't pro-rate, putting a disclaimer in a contract does not excuse a company from engaging in shoddy business practices, especially when such practices come at the expense of the customer. If you charge a monthly fee for a service, then you need to prorate for that service. Period. Failure to do so is incredibly bad customer service.

In Article 5.2, Subsection A of the PlayOnline Member Agreement it says:

Before reactivation of your account, all delinquent Subscription Fees will be charged to the valid payment method newly registered. You may incur fees (in addition to the Subscription Fee) for any such reactivation of your account, and you acknowledge and understand that such fees will be charged without further notice to you.

In Article 5.2, Subsection B of the PlayOnline Member Agreement it says:

You understand and agree that all payments to Square Enix, Inc. hereunder will be nonrefundable, even if you decide to terminate your access to and use of the Fee-Based Services in the middle of any month or other period for which you have already paid for such access and use.

In Article 5.2, Subsection C of the PlayOnline Member Agreement it says:

In the event that you are late in paying any Subscription Fee due hereunder, or refuse to pay any credit card or other applicable bill containing a Subscription Fee charge (such that Square Enix, Inc. incurs fees, penalties, or other expenses as a result thereof), Square Enix, Inc. shall be entitled to charge you a late fee at the annual rate maximum allowed by applicable laws, of all amounts due and owing, charged on a monthly basis for so long as you remain delinquent in your payment obligations.

The ToS says:
-That Square-Enix bills once a month at the beginning of each month.
-That if you have any unpaid or overdue fees, then you will be required to pay those fees before you can reactivate your account.
-That if you cancel your account in the middle of the month, you will not be refunded for the time remaining in that month.
-That if you are delinquent in paying off overdue fees, Square-Enix is allowed to charge you a late fee at the full monthly rate.
-That if you continually fail to make payments, Square-Enix is allowed to take you to a Collection Agency where they can force you to pay any money you owe, along with a 10% administration fee.

The ToS does not say:
-Anything about pro-rating.
-Anything about reactivating in the middle of a month.
-That if you reactivate your account on the last day of the month, you will still be charged for the entire month.

I think the part that people are getting confused over is the part that say "if you are delinquent in paying off overdue fees, Square-Enix is allowed to charge you a late fee at the full monthly rate." I think what people fail to realize here though is that failing to make an overdue payment is NOT the same thing as reactivating your account in the middle of the month!

Failing to make an overdue payment is one thing. Reactivating your account half-way through the month is something else entirely. They are not the same thing, yet Square-Enix treats them as though they are. Every other monthly service recognizes the difference in this sort of thing. Square-Enix is the only one that doesn't. That's the problem here, and that's why FINAL FANTASY XI's subscription plan is so horrible.

So if any Square-Enix employee is reading this right now, I ask you to please pass this information along to whoever is in charge of this sort of thing, and tell them to fix the monthly fee for FINAL FANTASY XI. Please.

Thank you for reading, and I hope this has been an educational experience for you.

[Arthars]

holy fuck

why are you doing this again?

just dont play man lol

at the same time, if you think your overcharged, call up SE and they will revert the billing

yes its SE's billing problem but if you let them know, its not like they are not going to do anything

and also at the same time, if your unhappy with SE, i recommend you to un-install the game and join minidragon irl

[Mesiah]

Wow, you got your first thread locked fast enough to make your head spin, so you went and made a second one.... If I was a mod I would be brandishing my ban stick about now. As for not pro-rating when people come back. You said it yourself, SE pro-rates when you first join the game. Maybe no doing so when people return is just SEs way of saying "HA! We told you bitches you would be back, now eat it!"

[Firehawk]

you sure you are ok?

[SubzeroDiabolos]

I think it's actually funny. I called tech support once to know if I registered for 5 days left of the month I would have 1 month or 5 days, they said 1 month. The surprise when after 5 days I had to pay again >_>.

EDIT: Didn't see his other thread for this, nice hahaha.

[Okan]

Blizzard does it very simply... You get billed, are you ready for this, every 30 days! It's amazing. If you are going to play a game on their billing cycle, I recommend this one!

[Raineer]

The amount of poor people in this game astounds me. Time and time again I hear from people in the game who spend enough time on the game to have endgame gear (not a trivial amount, mind you) who barely scrape by to afford the monthly fee.

The game with a couple mules is like $15 a month, whether they bill you for 1 day or 30. If this $15 has a serious effect on your life, you need to stop playing and go get a job. Your life is not going to get any better.

[Shinryuu]

Rhianu, are you TS on GFAQs?

[Thiefami]

Even if you reactivate on the very last day of the month, you will still get charged for the entire month! The fact that Square-Enix is so horribly sloppy with they way they handle their billing is where the problem lies.

Thank you for reading, and I hope this has been an educational experience for you.

Well the billing system makes perfect sense to me. You should not activate on the last day of a month, when you can wait an extra day to play and start at the beginning of the month. I WOULD think i would be charged the full 12.95 if I activated at the end of jan. so i can play in feb. What makes it more convenient is that they do not charge you right away they have a registration/billing day just for this. If you cannot wait one more day to play that is totally your fault, and no one elses.

[Rhianu]

To Arthars: I'm doing this because I believe it needs to be said. I don't believe in silent suffering. I think if you've got a problem with something, then you should speak out about it and let your voice be heard. After all, how can we ever expect anything to change if we never speak out?

And telling me to stop playing the game if I don't like something is Faulty Argument #7 from my original post. I'm sure there's plenty of things that you don't like about the game as well, but I don't see you quitting, either.

But despite what you may think, I really do enjoy playing this game. I just think it has a lot of really, really horrible problems that need to be fixed, and I'm sure there are ton of other FFXI players out there who would agree with me on that. However, unlike the average FFXI player who silently tolerates the game's problems, I prefer to bring those problems to SE's attention so they can fix them. Running an MMO is a big job, and I'm sure the dev team has a lot on their minds. They can't be expected to remember every little thing that needs to be done. It's just not humanly possible. That's why it's up to us, the player-base, to speak out about what we do and don't like so that the dev team can know what to fix and what to improve.

To Mesiah: I think first thread was locked because it was sort of a cross-forum invasion into GameFAQs. That topic was made in the heat of anger, and I regret doing it now. This thread, however, is different. Unlike the first, it stands on its own and doesn't try to invade other forums. I think the fact that the mods have allowed this topic to remain open even after they closed the first is evidence enough that this one doesn't violate the rules as the first did. Again, I apologize for the first topic; I was just angry at the fanboys, and I let that anger get the better of me. It's a bit of a problem I've been trying to overcome for a while now, but I still slip up every once in a while.

As for your comment about how not prorating on reactivated accounts “is just SE's way of saying 'HA! We told you bitches you would be back, now eat it!'” well, you're absolutely right. It's like a slap in the face to returning players. It's incredibly poor customer service, which is never a good thing, and can cause disloyalty among customers. Companies should strive to avoid that whenever possible.

To Okan: Yes, exactly. WoW has a much better billing system. I actually discussed that in my original post. And, as far as I'm aware, WoW's billing system is the exact same billing system used by every other major MMORPG out there. For example, City of Heroes, EverQuest, Warhammer, Lord of the Rings Online... hell, I can't think of any other MMO that doesn't work like that. FFXI is the only one (at least from all the games I've seen).

To Raineer: That's Faulty Argument #4. It isn't the amount of money involved that's important. It's the principle of the matter. Please go back up and read my response to Faulty Argument #4 in the original post.

To Shinryuu: Yes.

To Thiefami: I'm guessing you've never played any other MMORPG besides FFXI. Saying that people should have to wait to before they reactivate is Faulty Argument #3 (please scroll up and read it). People should be able to reactivate their accounts at absolutely any time they feel like it without ever having to worry about being over-charged. They shouldn't have to wait two weeks, or even one day. A good billing system caters to the schedule of the customer. A bad billing system makes the customer cater to the schedule of the company, which is completely backwards.

Also, if you think that it makes perfect sense to charge people for an entire month of service when in fact they only received one day of service, then you obviously have no sense, because no other monthly service on the face of the planet works that way. Yes, I agree that it can be kind of nice at times to be able to differ payment for a few weeks, but what's not nice is having to pay for a full month of service when you only received a partial month of service. Every other monthly service that I know of pro-rates their fees. I already addressed that exact argument near the beginning of my original post:

Every other month-to-month billing situation that I know of pro-rates. Anything I pay for: cable or satellite TV, internet, cell-phone, rent, etc. are all pro-rated if I activated or reactivated the service in the middle of the month. It's a fair-business practice.

I recently purchased a new cell-phone plan 10 days into a billing cycle for that month. I only payed for 21 days that month.

A few months ago I switched internet service providers. I activated my internet 3 days before a month ended. I only payed for 3 days.

It's not the same as saying things like, "Well, I should only pay for internet when I'm using it. I shouldn't have to pay when I'm not logged on." You pay for the time a service is provided to you. Even when you're not online, the internet company is still providing the service to you, you're just not using it. However, if your account was not active for part of a month, the company was not providing a service to you and therefore (in most cases) they don't charge you for it. In fact, most reputable companies will subtract from your bill if you experience a service outage. Last month my internet went out for a day. I called the cable company and they took off a percentage from my bill for that the month for the time outage disrupted my internet. It's called GOOD SERVICE.

You'd be pretty annoyed if you moved into a new apartment on the 15th of the month, and you had to pay the full month's rent. That's why things are pro-rated.

[SephYuyX]

Get over it, it'll never change.

[Rhianu]

I don't believe that.

Square-Enix has already changed an innumerable number of things about the game because players kept on pestering them. Granted, they do take their damn sweet time at getting around to actually making those changes, but they do eventually make them. We just need to keep on them until they do it. SE doesn't seem to listen any other way.

[Kohan]

Since you're bitching about Square-Enix taking forever to do things and generally hating on their business practices, I highly doubt they give two shits about whatever you have to say. You don't know how to start an argument properly. On top of that, you're posting it on BG. Sorry, nobody cares.

If you're really determined, stop doing the easy thing -- posting on a message board -- and go make up some signs, then petition SE's offices in El Segundo. At the very least, you'll realize more so how alone you are when the awkwardness of standing beside a busy street by yourself sets in.

[Syntex]

SE does everything fucking half ass backwards, this is what makes this game awesome and fucking stupid at the same time.

[Yugl]

I don't believe that.

Square-Enix has already changed an innumerable number of things about the game because players kept on pestering them. Granted, they do take their damn sweet time at getting around to actually making those changes, but they do eventually make them. We just need to keep on them until they do it. SE doesn't seem to listen any other way.

So what you're saying is you don't want SE to charge you for the entire month when you reactivate your account in 2020.

[Destinye]

It never amazes me on how much stuff people bitch about in regards to FFXI and SE and continue to play.

SE already said they won't change the billing system as it was one of the FIRST systems introduced with Playonline and going back to change it at this point and time would be pointless.

Don't like their billing....don't reactivate at the end of the month!

Such a simple concept. I don't know about other's thoughts on this but the fact that unlike WoW/Blizzard--SE uses a different system for billing and account management, you can't expect that to work flawlessly especially in regards that it's a JAPANESE company that has to bill MULTIPLE nations, shit won't always work right. This is why FFXI should have just stayed regional Japan, because people seem to fail to grasp the concept that many international services will have problems like this.

[Thiefami]

To Thiefami: I'm guessing you've never played any other MMORPG besides FFXI. Saying that people should have to wait to before they reactivate is Faulty Argument #3 (please scroll up and read it). People should be able to reactivate their accounts at absolutely any time they feel like it without ever having to worry about being over-charged. They shouldn't have to wait two weeks, or even one day. A good billing system caters to the schedule of the customer. A bad billing system makes the customer cater to the schedule of the company, which is completely backwards.

You are more than free to reactivate your account at any time what so ever, the fact is you did more than that you reactivated your content ID. Content IDs clearly state they will be charged monthly. You should have waited. I feel SE is very lenient with their billing system, because in reality for just a day you played before you payed. You were not overcharged, you absolutely could not wait until the next day to activate your content ID and you were charged, as they promised, for that month.

Oh, and really... come on , because I do not play several mmos i'm an idiot who cannot comprehend a simple billing agreement? I think you may play too many. lol

and I get the urge to play the game again and I want to reactivate my account, that I should have to wait two weeks for the new billing cycle to start? Come on, don't be retarded.

What if I get the urge to go drinking, and I want to get into a club, that I should have to wait until I get paid the next day when that I have no money ? Come on, don't be retarded. Your logic fails.

[isladar]

If you're mad at GameFAQs posters, go fucking yell at them on GameFAQs. If you're upset about SE's billing policy, go write a strongly-worded letter to your congressman, because it'll do about as much as posting on BG about it.