NIN in salvage

[eva00r]

Compare to MNK, SAM and WAR, how does NIN perform in Salvage?

Well, tanking boss, time to take it down, farming NMs, unlocking cells in early floors, etc etc

[Thorny]

noticably inferior, you can do fine with a NIN and it has the bonus of provoke after homing missile or brainjack phase, but it still has enough less damage potential that you'll be unable to do all SSR NMs(at least with 6-7) and most likely also unable to 5f+6f+boss in zhayolm

[zard1977]

Depending on how well-geared the Nin is.
Average geared Nins (with swift, byakko's, dusk etc) will find it hard to pull hate from a mnk.
Having provoke not only for bosses but for the puller is a bonus (unless you bring a war of course).


That being said, if the other 2 DDs are good there would be no problem to do what Thorny said (with 6).

[Halion]

I always thought of my DDNIN as a point of pride but going against LBC comapred to WAR or DRG I just felt weak. I could tank him until the end of time though, so trade-offs.

[Khajit]

Tbh I think it probably depends on just how strong the nin is gearwise.
You really should test it out yourself on a run where your group wont get hurt much if the nin doesnt turn out to be as useful as the other jobs.
The main reason I say this is I always hear people say nin is a weak DD and yet some of those same people are the ones that cant out damage my nin (complete with a year of parsing vs them specifically to prove it).
Vs a sam i'd giveup though. Sam is the new war. as in SE is sucking it's cock every update.
Sam is the only job i have trouble outDDing on my other jobs and quite frankly some samurai's have no business even getting as close to me as sam can by default.

[Furionstormrage]

Sam is the new war. as in SE is sucking it's cock every update.

What update did WAR get that compares to SAM updates over the years?


On the NIN in Salvage debate, I would be hard pressed to ever come NIN having a decently geared WAR, it just seems like working backwards since a good WAR with good support can easily tank everything in there while doing more damage (exceptions for incredibly well geared NINs aside).

[Khajit]

What update did WAR get that compares to SAM updates over the years?


On the NIN in Salvage debate, I would be hard pressed to ever come NIN having a decently geared WAR, it just seems like working backwards since a good WAR with good support can easily tank everything in there while doing more damage (exceptions for incredibly well geared NINs aside).

it's not so much for war getting a specific update as much as if there was anything nice around WAR could equip it. Ebody, misc abj, ridill, b haidate/etc, decent weapons that are still good to this day somewhat while other jobs (drg for example) didnt have jack to wear anywhere near that level for years.
The only job that had close to the gear selection was bst but that got nerfed into oblivion.
That and if something new came out that might be decent war got to have it.(compare askar gear to denali)

[Valyana]

I do Salvage with a Kikoku/V.Belt/etc NIN who consistently outparses our other melees. But I wouldn't bring a typical NIN unless your other melees are incapable of tanking or something.

[Lyramion]

What other people said. NIN is HEAVILY dependant on gear. Every slot has to be maxed with good things.

I have to admit that NIN is inferior without many cells on early levels, especially RING slot is critical. MNK with counterstance will do much additional damage on the early levels. NIN really shines on the upper floors where MNKs have to keep shadows up. After all the MNK has to sub sucky NIN while you have berserk and are able to rack up alot more ATK and also Doubleattacks.


So ya never bring a "normal" NIN to Salvage. Only bring in career NINs that put their heart and soul into it, including combat merits. I only ate meat in Salvage even as NIN and never really had ACC problems.

noticably inferior, you can do fine with a NIN and it has the bonus of provoke after homing missile or brainjack phase, but it still has enough less damage potential that you'll be unable to do all SSR NMs(at least with 6-7) and most likely also unable to 5f+6f+boss in zhayolm

This is just wrong. I remember a clear of Hammer > Dekka > GG1 > GG3 > Turtle > Boss and still had 3 minutes left. Setup was SAM NIN THF RDM WHM BRD.

Did same in Arrapago and Zhay. Full Clear, All NMs and Boss.

[kayn]

Don't listen to Lyra, there are probably 5 nins across all servers who are even closed to geared/merited like him.

[Bishop1]

Don't listen to Lyra, there are probably 5 nins across all servers who are even closed to geared/merited like him.

Because Ninja fails so much nobody merits that shit anymore.

[Suiram]

Is Shinobi Ring 100% active before getting HP cell? (You mention ring is critical, so it got me thinking about that--unless that's exactly what you meant).

[Ahrana]

Wrong thread

[Fridell]

Ya, NIN is good for Salvage if you have good gear for it, but NIN isnt like MNK BRD RDM etc where those jobs can perform well with less gear.
I've done MNK NIN THF RDM WHM BRD etc only a few times in Salvage and it worked well and the NIN kept up well. (Sadly I wasnt the NIN for it and mine is much better geared etc)
And, as I've said before, a well geared NIN can keep up with great MNKs. . .(atleast the Usukane-less ones).

But meh, if you can avoid bringing Ninja for Salvage, you should, get another MNK instead, Counterstance owns.

[Lyramion]

Is Shinobi Ring 100% active before getting HP cell? (You mention ring is critical, so it got me thinking about that--unless that's exactly what you meant).

It´s mainly for the Suppanomimi. If you go Arp for example and only get Rings on the 5th floor chariot - that´s lot of time you missing out 5% more DoT as a dual wielder. Also a lot of Salvage enemies have such low evasion AF+1 body can shine.


But the 50% latent thing is strange in Salvage without HP cells. It DOES and does not work at times. Being WHM/SCH often in Salvage, I noticed my sublimation sometimes working and sometimes not and instantly canceling. I think it has to do with equipping +HP and -HP items. kinda strange but I never tested it in depth.



On Bosses I remember Full Usukane NIN spamming Metsu was almost TOO much subtle blow. How can you have too much subtle blow? Well usually when you cast NI your shadows get destroyed at like 3-4. But with so much subtle blow I was forced to cast ITCHY... which would get destroyed by a TP move then after 1 shadow taken.



Another option NIN has over MNK is equipping daggers. Archaic Machinery and IMPs are weak to piercing. Sadly I never really got to test it out myself. But I know some NINs that swear by Blaudolch to kill gears and IMPs in there.

[cdgreg]

If you simply don't have a mnk or war then nin can work out quite well tanking bosses. Back in the day when we were low man spamming AC for Bodb's pigaches we'd low man with nin, thf, rdm, brd. It was a long ass slow fight don't get me wrong, but as someone said they can tank forever. So in summary, in the olden days we used nin for almost everything because we didn't have a mnk or war, but it was incredibly slow.

[Lordwafik]

Wayyyyyyy back when my group was one of the only people who did salvage because everyone RAGE QUIT after it being too hard (pre chest), we took a nin to replace one of our monks who couldn't make it that day, he was geared as typical DD nin from when salvage was fresh.

Pre chest bhaflau
DD nin
no nerfed missiles
final dest


err yeah he did fine co-tanking. If your monk uses Hfists then he'll rip hate, and of course monk will rip hate natively over time, but this is where the nin can then focus entirely on DD till he pulls hate back.

Nothing doesn't work in this game.

[Shin Volcano]

There is simply no reason for NIN over MNKs in salvage, a good MNK can out tank and outdamage even well geared NINs unless they have a relic, salvage mobs are genarly weak and most can even be counterstance tanked, only reason a nin would be considerd is if you had no MNKs what so ever MNK+SAM+ THF your best combo, even for the fact MNK and SAM SC with each other well, you'll get way more damage potential overall. sure you can proably pull it off with nina, but it'll always be much slower then with a MNk and SAM.

[Nameless]

On the side note. Drk can pretty much do whatever a War/sam does on all 4 bosses, I see that no one mentioned drk as one of the good salvage jobs. A bit less on the defensive side, but it can generally be covered by dreak spikes. Not to mention you can stun and weapon bash most of the bad moves while fighting.

I personally go drk/sam to my salvage group and sometimes we don't even bring mnk, just me and a fellow war/sam bounce hate, a thf, a brd, a cor, a whm and a rdm for support. Usually kill any boss (take out the charm one) in 7-10 mins without much problem.

We do zerg the bosses a bit with brd SV and war, me, and sometimes mnk two hour at around 50-75%. And if the cor reset our two hour, we do that again at around 25%. Works great.

Drg/sam isn't too bad for Salvage as well, but it is almost impossible to keep wyvern alive through boss. Angon tho, is great.

[Bakthi]

Angon tho, is great.

Angon, piercing damage, Drakesbane...I'll take a DRG to Salvage whenever I can. SAM and WAR, too. MNKs are still good, but certainly not as vital as they were before SE added the start chest.

We haven't done a lot with DD NINs in Salvage. The only time we have a NIN these days is when that one guy who only has NIN wants to go (and he doesn't have relic/speed belt/HQ dusk/etc.). Back when everyone was still struggling with LBC, we experimented with the "bounce him between 2 NINs 20' apart" thing, and we used to bring a NIN or PLD to LAC to grab hate after Brainjack, but we're ok without the latter now, and obviously don't do the former anymore.