novio vs sch

[astura]

It could be me but in your case why not just consider something like: cor+125 rdm+25 sch+50 blm+75 to keep your priority. All said its relly not hard to make a resist build on sch so you can nuke on anything that blm's can without getting resisted. (e.x. khim. cerebus etc) The only mobs that gave me trouble when i nuked on sch was the same ones that blms in our ls had problems consistently nuking as well. That said consider who benifiets more on mab this way sch/rdm moldative+mab1 is 25 mab adding 7 more is 32/25 or 128% dmg increase. A blm with moldavite,weskit,yigit feet, yigit feet is 46 base mab adding 7 more mab is 53/46 or 115% increase in dmg. This means that a sch will always see a better % increase over a blm. (or in other words to get at least the same increase as blm the blm had to have only 33 mab prior to novia and it gets 32 just alone in traits) To also keep in mind blm is the only other job with T4 nukes and is the 2nd highest elemental skill job out there. It's not like it wont get used anyways with which ever job you give it to.

edit as far as resist build to keep moldy/novia without AV item its not to hard :
256 base
16 merits
7 relic hat
7 torque
8 hands
15 af+1 body
5 sea cape
feet 2
grip 2
relic waist 2
exactly 320 skill/macc (alternatively if your mainly ice nukes you can swap back/grip for 10 skill on ice staff and also has klimaform not included)

as for int: 7 food 7 weather (ice) 10 ring 3 body 4 feet 5 waist 8 legs= +52 int (57 merits and 62 using hq ice staff gain 6 int swaping back/grip for +68 int total there with 320 skill) incidentally +68 int on ice nukes means that even a 52 int user can hit 320/120 so race is a non issue then.

[Cakes]

As many people have shown, there are different ways you can think about this.

In my view, there is very little reason why you would limit the Novio to BLM only, even if the usage of SCH does differ between linkshells, and between players. SCH can nuke extremely efficiently, and Novio would aid in the casting of elemental magic and helices, providing bonuses largely otherwise inaccessible in its other gear options.
When you look at it this way, Scholar, as a new job, doesn't have quite the range of equipment that Black Mage does, this being pretty clear in HNM/Sky/Sea(/Salvage) and the like, so barring it from this option limits its possibly attainable rewards even further.

For many, Novio, albeit providing substantive improvement over other items, is also often seen as a trophy item. That being said, this shouldn't take away from the fact that it does have utility! Its primary function is to increase Magic Damage - If a job is able to use it, and can justify that use, there's no real reason to not let them have it. BLM and SCH get the most out of it, but COR and RDM can also put it to good use.

At the end of the day, you should look at the people who want it. If they've worked for it, really want it, and can use it well, they should be able to have a chance at getting it. I'd give a Novio to a RDM or COR before a 'i-levelled-it-to-stop-them-complaining' BLM with little deliberation, and a SCH with even less.

I'd give it to BLM/SCH (On a player-by-player case) > COR/RDM (On a player-by-player case) > X.
As a BLM/SCH/COR, you might see my opinion as slightly biased, though.

Really, people saying it is Black Mage only are being incredibly closed minded. Really, give it to someone who nukes at your events (We also bring scholar to salvage, who switches between both arts, based on situation...we never bring a blm to salvage, though I know some group do). If a scholar does that, then there is absolutely ZERO basis in math to give it to a BLM before a SCH.

edit: TLDR version: Nuking scholar gets more out of Novio than a black mage. The only thing is the scholar has to be 1 that is nuking, to get any benefit.

Quoted for the saturation of truth injected into this post

Edit: regarding COR vs RDM priority, I'd be slightly weighted more to favour Corsairs, due to the fact that they use cards in LS events far more than most Red mages will ever use their T3 spells, and can cause considerable QD damage over time. /bias

[Neb]

If your LS has job priorities as many do then LVL BLM you will have blm to 75 faster then letting all other blm get novio before SCH can lot. It's like ridill if you have a thf and want one LVL WAR its the faster way to get what you want.

I do understand the idea that people should get items not jobs but you can't just change LS rules when they have been in place for a long time it's not fair to other members who have abided by these rules.

If you have the points and not the job lvl the job and you will get the next one that drops^^

[Cakes]

If your LS has job priorities as many do then LVL BLM you will have blm to 75 faster then letting all other blm get novio before SCH can lot. It's like ridill if you have a thf and want one LVL WAR its the faster way to get what you want.

Hmm... Novio BLM vs SCH is closer in comparison with E-body WAR vs DRK rather than Ridill WAR vs THF.

I do understand the idea that people should get items not jobs but you can't just change LS rules when they have been in place for a long time it's not fair to other members who have abided by these rules.

This wouldn't take the fact that 'new jobs are constantly added to the game' into account.

[Neb]

Hmm... Novio BLM vs SCH is closer in comparison with E-body WAR vs DRK rather than Ridill WAR vs THF..

This Correct I was just trying to make a point that if your LS is unwilling to change the rules LvLing BLM would be your best option in this situation.

This wouldn't take the fact that 'new jobs are constantly added to the game' into account.

Constantly we can all only dream my friend.

I personally Agree that Scholar should be able to lot Novio but we all know that people are stuck in their ways when it comes to endgame content and gear.

[BlakLanner]

I see no real reason why a SCH should not be allowed to lot on a Novio. Hell, in our shell, even the RDMs/CORs get a good shot at them. If they are going to make use of it, let them have a shot at it.

[Kerberoz]

People need to quit being idiots and thinking SCH is an inferior nuker. SE is just going to keep buffing SCH and gimping BLM even more but "ZOMG IT HAS TEH LOWER SKILLZ" so morons will think it's balanced.

A good SCH can perform at the same level or higher than a good BLM. The best BLM possible can barely beat the best SCH possible per nuke, and will lose to damage over time...

[Zosi]

Give it to the person who'll use it the best, which depends as much on gear and intelligence as job. Don't give it to fucking morons simply because they're BLMs rather than SCHs. A lot of people would say that that's impossible with points, but it's simply a question of having standards. Only let people who actually have a clue how to play the job lot as it, and if someone doesn't have a clue how to play ANY of their jobs, get rid of them. If you're not willing to do that, you'll end up with a bunch of shitty BLMs feeling entitled to Novios simply because they can accumulate points and have a "75" next to the job name.

I do understand the idea that people should get items not jobs but you can't just change LS rules when they have been in place for a long time it's not fair to other members who have abided by these rules.

What a horrible argument against fixing bad rules. If you know that a rule is bad, it's even more unfair to do nothing and continue using it than to change it to a more fair rule. If your LS members can't see that, then they need to look at the bigger picture rather than only thinking about their own loot line positions.

[Unlikelyhero]

Give valuable items like gaiters, novios, etc. to PEOPLE, not to JOBS.

I agree with this 100%. I never understood the whole "you must have XXX job at XX level before you are even considered to be able to lot XXX item". Who are you to deny your members of what they want if they put in the work for it? I let my Whms lot E. Body/ridill/blahblah if they have the points to outbid others for it. <3 Point system.

What do I tell my Wars if they whine about it? Shut up, show up more then it wouldn't be a problem. I believe firmly in the notion that if you want something, work for it and perseverance will pay off. But I only got 4 posts, what do I know right?

[Meian]

People still do this priority crap on items like these? If the damn job can use the item, they have the level for it, and have the points then let them get the damn item.

And agreed from above about SCH vs. BLM is much closer than arguements with Ridill

[Kaelia]

My LS has always been based on points. There are some restrictions on lotting, like we don't want people lotting gear over others for a pre-75 job if there is anyone else who is 75 who can wear it. Restricting based on job is something thats pretty minimal for us aside from the obvious: we wouldn't let a WAR-only lot on a Novio, because they would have no use for it in any reasonable situation. (It's never really come to denying anyone though; I can't remember a single time anyone has ever been so stupid and/or greedy as to want an item that has 0 use to them.)

What we DON'T do is job lot restrict based on what job(s) the person brings to our events. The whole reason for running a points-based system, in my opinion at least, is to objectively reward attendance and loyalty based on the individual, not the job the individual brings to events. If somebody comes to all of our events on PLD because we ask him to and he loyally does that every single time without complaint... If that guy also has SCH that he uses to solo/merit/Salvage/whatever on the side outside of event time, even if he never brings SCH itself to events he can get a Novio, and he can get it over a BLM if he beats that BLM in terms of points/attendance. He may not get to bring the Novio to events on his SCH, but the PLD he DOES bring benefits the LS just as much as any Novio BLM. If that makes sense.

[Zosi]

I agree with this 100%. I never understood the whole "you must have XXX job at XX level before you are even considered to be able to lot XXX item". Who are you to deny your members of what they want if they put in the work for it? I let my Whms lot E. Body/ridill/blahblah if they have the points to outbid others for it. <3 Point system.

What do I tell my Wars if they whine about it? Shut up, show up more then it wouldn't be a problem. I believe firmly in the notion that if you want something, work for it and perseverance will pay off. But I only got 4 posts, what do I know right?

Man, you totally pwned those people who were saying LSs should give Ridills to WHMs. Wait, nobody actually said that? You just made yourself look like a complete idiot? Say it ain't so!

"Give gear to people, not jobs" refers to silly arguments like this about BLMs and SCHs and RDMs fighting over Novios, not giving Ridills to WHMs over WARs. It means to give loot to the person who will use it the best (whether for LS stuff or not), regardless of what job they use it on. In other words, it's a very pragmatic idea, very much the opposite of your straw-man Ridill/E.body WHM.

[Thorny]

Man, you totally pwned those people who were saying LSs should give Ridills to WHMs. Wait, nobody actually said that? You just made yourself look like a complete idiot? Say it ain't so!

"Give gear to people, not jobs" refers to silly arguments like this about BLMs and SCHs and RDMs fighting over Novios, not giving Ridills to WHMs over WARs. It means to give loot to the person who will use it the best (whether for LS stuff or not), regardless of what job they use it on. In other words, it's a very pragmatic idea, very much the opposite of your straw-man Ridill/E.body WHM.

It takes longer to get a ridill and ebody than level war to 75 for someone who has the free time to camp kings, you can hardly call it unfair if the war could do the same for novio for their low level blm. It might be poor use of drops in some cases, but it's a fair system and most people who lot a ridill and ebody would level war to use them properly anyway..

[Arthars]

i would say give it to a BLM that nuke well and a sch (that nukes well, switch arts efficiently and still doing party jobs)

theres easily an above average BLM(out of 10 BLM, i would say its easy to find 6-7 good BLM out there), but theres hardly an average SCH in the community(ask yourself, out of 10 SCH, how many are actually good ._. i personally will say 1-2)

if your thinking in general that SCH should roll a novio, your chance of putting the novio to shame is alot more higher than giving to a random BLM

but of course, if the SCH is a really good player and everyone acknowledged that, why not?

[Yugl]

i would say give it to a BLM that nuke well and a sch (that nukes well, switch arts efficiently and still doing party jobs)

theres easily an above average BLM(out of 10 BLM, i would say its easy to find 6-7 good BLM out there), but theres hardly an average SCH in the community(ask yourself, out of 10 SCH, how many are actually good ._. i personally will say 1-2)

I think that's due to seniority of BLM over SCH and because SCH's range of abilities is far beyond that of BLM. Due to the fact that BLM came out before SCH, there is a greater base of players that use BLMs; there is more information regarding BLM; and BLM more integrated than SCH. These factors could and probably do lead to an increase in "good" BLMs. In addition, consider the fact that SCH is a much more diverse role than BLM, and because of this, SCH needs to obtain a greater variety of gear. As many players know from experience with Maat's cap players, this can lead to less than optimal gear for each set. Furthermore, and although this mostly applies to non-PC players, in order to take full advantage of SCH's capabilities, more macros and macro lines are required. The limitations caused by macros also make it difficult for SCHs to play at their best. So while I understand your point, I do want to emphasize that it is more difficult to play SCH at full capacity compared to BLM.

[Unlikelyhero]

Man, you totally pwned those people who were saying LSs should give Ridills to WHMs. Wait, nobody actually said that? You just made yourself look like a complete idiot? Say it ain't so!

"Give gear to people, not jobs" refers to silly arguments like this about BLMs and SCHs and RDMs fighting over Novios, not giving Ridills to WHMs over WARs. It means to give loot to the person who will use it the best (whether for LS stuff or not), regardless of what job they use it on. In other words, it's a very pragmatic idea, very much the opposite of your straw-man Ridill/E.body WHM.

ZOMGZ I jus gotz dee pwned super hardcore!!!

Look buddy, what I did is called an abstract illustration; by using an example of extreme conditions it simplify ideas when comparing drastic situations. (I don't really have a situation where a war bitched to me because a whm got a ridill(!)). The principle is still there, it isn't hidden. Not everything is literal. I think someone needs some cognitive development excercises.

[Arthars]

I think that's due to seniority of BLM over SCH and because SCH's range of abilities is far beyond that of BLM. Due to the fact that BLM came out before SCH, there is a greater base of players that use BLMs; there is more information regarding BLM; and BLM more integrated than SCH. These factors could and probably do lead to an increase in "good" BLMs. In addition, consider the fact that SCH is a much more diverse role than BLM, and because of this, SCH needs to obtain a greater variety of gear. As many players know from experience with Maat's cap players, this can lead to less than optimal gear for each set. Furthermore, and although this mostly applies to non-PC players, in order to take full advantage of SCH's capabilities, more macros and macro lines are required. The limitations caused by macros also make it difficult for SCHs to play at their best. So while I understand your point, I do want to emphasize that it is more difficult to play SCH at full capacity compared to BLM.

thats exactly why it is easier to give a novio to a good blm than a sch(that your unsure if he/she can perform the versatile job of sch)

the sch may end up tying his/her own fingers pressing 092183210983 macros and the novio may not even be put to use hahaha, while a BLM is garanteed a use for it.

i wouldnt say BLM > SCH but what i am trying to say is, if your unsure if "the" sch is up for the novio, giving a BLM first wouldnt hurt(a good BLM that attends events obviously)

[FailureMidgard]

i would say give it to a BLM that nuke well and a sch (that nukes well, switch arts efficiently and still doing party jobs)

theres easily an above average BLM(out of 10 BLM, i would say its easy to find 6-7 good BLM out there), but theres hardly an average SCH in the community(ask yourself, out of 10 SCH, how many are actually good ._. i personally will say 1-2)

if your thinking in general that SCH should roll a novio, your chance of putting the novio to shame is alot more higher than giving to a random BLM

but of course, if the SCH is a really good player and everyone acknowledged that, why not?

Really? Most black mages I seem to have the pleasure of seeing are awful.

I'd never give 1 to a BLM that didn't have a sorcerer's + enough -hp gear to equip it, as a random example.

[Eightyone]

.

[Eightyone]

thats exactly why it is easier to give a novio to a good blm than a sch(that your unsure if he/she can perform the versatile job of sch)

the sch may end up tying his/her own fingers pressing 092183210983 macros and the novio may not even be put to use hahaha, while a BLM is garanteed a use for it.

i wouldnt say BLM > SCH but what i am trying to say is, if your unsure if "the" sch is up for the novio, giving a BLM first wouldnt hurt(a good BLM that attends events obviously)

Novio would be put into Dark Arts JA macro so not putting it on would just not happen.