novio vs sch

[Arthars]

thats not what i meant ._.

[Meat]

Fuck it give it to the cors, watch em be the 1st to get drawn in on timmy.

[Aragon of Odin]

IMO SCH should be entitled to it just as much as BLM's. Out of 10 BLM's I'd say a good chunk of them only leveled it to have a mage job to get in an end game shell. A lot of them don't even bother putting the time in for a good enfeebling build and wonder why their sleepga's get resisted. I've seen countless BLM's nuking Wyrms and stuff in full MAB gear wondering why their Burst 2's are only doing 60 DMG, which shows me they don't even have a proper INT/Skill build or even know what one is.

If a SCH put the time in to get the points they should be rewarded for it as well, a Novio will serve them just as well as a BLM, just learn to let your SCH nuke instead of just Stoneskinga and Phalanxga.

[evilpaul]

Two things...

First, Scholar is a hell of a lot harder to play than Black Mage. It can do a lot more shit and has many more tools at its disposal. People who haven't read Kaeko should really go and do so. The only reason you would want someone to come BLM instead of Scholar (unless their Scholar is geared horribly) would be for Stun or -ga3s.

Second, how many people have Scholar leveled that don't already have Black Mage? I'll go poke around on FFXIAH.com, but literally everyone I can think of on Hades with SCH75 also has BLM75.

So with that said, unless the OP's LS only does HNMs where the Scholars are going to be super heavily resisted (or the SCHs are uniformly unwilling to gear for nuking for some reason) I don't see why it wouldn't go to either BLM or SCH depending on who had the most points or whatever the rest of your system is.

[Magicide]

My thought is that a fair LS in a point-based system should give a SCH a chance at a novio if they're willing to spend the points. A SCH can certainly make use of a Novio, maybe not across the full spectrum of events to the degree that a BLM can, but certainly very well in a great many situations.

If all your LS does is fight Tiamat/Khim/Ouryu, then yeah, I'd give it only to BLM's, as I think BLM will always be > SCH in those fights as a nuker. But in fights that are more about endurance nuking than getting past a mob's magic defense - situations like Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar, farming, lower-tier sea gods, ZNM's, and many low-man kited fights, where resists aren't much of an issue - SCH's crazy MP efficiency is really felt, and thus, a Novio on a SCH is equally felt, and may be even better spent than on a BLM.

If all you're using your SCH for is as a phalanxga/stoneskinga whore, you're not using them to their full potential (or at least, to the full potential of their job). Granted there are some fights where that's all they're good for (say, Ixion), but to shut them out from the elite nuking gear entirely seems both unfair and unwise to me.

[minsk]

I may have read somewhere that magic attack bonus has diminishing returns when you keep stacking it up? If thats the case the SCH will get a larger boost in damage from a novio than a BLM can. If I'm wrong about this though, then just disregard that part. And any shell that would even think about not letting SCH on novio must have never seen a sch in action before.

[Magicide]

I may have read somewhere that magic attack bonus has diminishing returns when you keep stacking it up? If thats the case the SCH will get a larger boost in damage from a novio than a BLM can. If I'm wrong about this though, then just disregard that part. And any shell that would even think about not letting SCH on novio must have never seen a sch in action before.

No, MAB is a straight multiplication to the end of the formula, so if without any MAB your nuke would do 1000 damage, with a MAB of 20 that same nuke would do 1200. Another 20 (if you could somehow achieve it) would give you another 200 damage, for a total of 1400. So long as resists aren't an issue, stacking MAB will always be the most efficient way of increasing your damage on Tier 4 nukes.

There could theoretically be issues if you could somehow start adding in so much MAB gear that you sacrificed INT, skill, and m.acc to the point where resists became a problem, but when you're talking about a piece like a Novio that replaces +2 INT with +7 MAB, that's just crazy talk.

Maybe you're thinking of INT, which has diminishing returns on your resist rate when you get more than 10 INT over your target's.

[Kaeko]

Just dropping in because of the LBR thingy on advanced, but to answer your question, MAB has diminishing returns.

For instance, if you have currently +32 MAB and add 7 MAB, you have a 39/32 increase or ~22% increase in damage. If you currently have +20 MAB and add 7 MAB, you have a 27/20 or ~35% increase in damage. This is why if you take a SCH w/o novio and give them one, they will see a larger increase in damage %wise than if you take a BLM w/o a novio and give them one.

This is why SCH mythic technically grants the same damage bonus as BLM mythic, but SCH mythic will give you a larger damage boost by %.

Cheers to all your SCHs (and BLMs) out there

[Suiram]

Just dropping in because of the LBR thingy on advanced, but to answer your question, MAB has diminishing returns.

For instance, if you have currently +32 MAB and add 7 MAB, you have a 39/32 increase or ~22% increase in damage. If you currently have +20 MAB and add 7 MAB, you have a 27/20 or ~35% increase in damage. This is why if you take a SCH w/o novio and give them one, they will see a larger increase in damage %wise than if you take a BLM w/o a novio and give them one.

This is why SCH mythic technically grants the same damage bonus as BLM mythic, but SCH mythic will give you a larger damage boost by %.

Cheers to all your SCHs (and BLMs) out there

Why doesn't my Novio give me a 22% increase in damage!?! (But yeah, what Kaeko is saying about Novio technically being more beneficial to SCH is completely correct, he just meant to do 1.39/1.32 and 1.27/1.20 )

[Kaeko]

Why doesn't my Novio give me a 22% increase in damage!?! (But yeah, what Kaeko is saying about Novio technically being more beneficial to SCH is completely correct, he just meant to do 1.39/1.32 and 1.27/1.20 )

Whoa that's a big mistake on my part. Already rusty =P

[Vigilia]

I don't see the logic in any of this. Unless you blatantly refuse to let Scholars do a thing but cast Stoneskin on your tanks, there's no reason your Scholars and Corsairs shouldn't be perfectly capable of keeping up with your Black Mages.

Well it works for us, out of the SCHs in the LS who are fussed about nuking and playing the job that way every single one also has BLM leveled and hence has Novio to use on SCH if they so wish. The rest of us who have SCH and don't have BLM are more into the support capabilities of the job. If we had a new member join who'd be hardcore SCH w/o BLM, the job priority would probably get reviewed (unlike the popular belief that's been coming across in this thread, some LS rules do get changed when new jobs are introduced and new playstyles are found) but that's simply not been necessary so far. I think every LS should assess their own member base and go from there rather than try follow others, shit's situational.

[Eldelphia]

If it were me I would only give it to a SCH over a BLM if the SCH had done more work but if you were looking to add some points to SCH for this item I would.

I would give a SCH 50-75% of the additional points you add to BLM. So if BLM got a +100 point bonus on Novio for being a BLM, then SCH should get +50 or +75. SCH should be rated higher than RDM and COR because they will use it one hell of a lot more. I have both BLM and SCH and whilst my BLM is going to see the biggest numbers, using Dark Arts, my SCH would never take this off. It also will allow a SCH to move their gear around somewhat.

Also remember if your SCH goes out with BLMs for low man stuff in sea like the Ix'Aerns etc they may be using it constantly in smaller ways.

Obviously they have to put the work in but I'd say that pointing Novio for SCH should be done.

[orson]

Too me it doesn't seem fair to limit the item to Blm. Sch is a good nuker but bottom line I think it should be if the person puts in the work and the leaders think they can make use of that item they should be able to lot.

[dejet]

Two things...

First, Scholar is a hell of a lot harder to play than Black Mage. It can do a lot more shit and has many more tools at its disposal. People who haven't read Kaeko should really go and do so. The only reason you would want someone to come BLM instead of Scholar (unless their Scholar is geared horribly) would be for Stun or -ga3s.

Second, how many people have Scholar leveled that don't already have Black Mage? I'll go poke around on FFXIAH.com, but literally everyone I can think of on Hades with SCH75 also has BLM75.

So with that said, unless the OP's LS only does HNMs where the Scholars are going to be super heavily resisted (or the SCHs are uniformly unwilling to gear for nuking for some reason) I don't see why it wouldn't go to either BLM or SCH depending on who had the most points or whatever the rest of your system is.

lol funny thing our sch >.> does not have blm lvled thats why this fight is going on!
taking a ls vote on it now, thanks for all the info guys^^


atm its BLM only no points added at all, reason being it can be sold and we want to keep it in the linkshell. so there are no added points, i was thinking 50-75 added for blm If we let sch lot it.

[amentis]

Honestly, if the blm doesn't suck, the SCH is going to get more from the earring than the blm anyway, so why not.

I see nothing wrong with giving it to the SCH, if he deserves it.
Also: The correct answer to this thread is "give it to the cor".

[Kilhart]

The correct answer to this thread is "give it to the cor".

Only if your LS does wyrms on a regular basis :3

[Valkrish]

a good scholar can (in varying situations)

heal over 30,000 HP in the duration of thier two hours =)

tabula rasa
Macro accession/celerity/penury/rapture to 1-2 keys'

target outside PT: Cure4 for ~600-800 each x 6 (with lightstorm on)

repeat x 4 books

target outside PT: Cure4 for ~600-800 each x 6 (with lightstorm on)

repeat x 4 books

target outside PT: Cure4 for ~600-800 each x 6 (with lightstorm on)

That's about 220 MP so far, 14-20 seconds into sch 2 hours (depending how quick you are with targeting members outside alliance)



that's my definition of a OHSHIT moment in scholar's lifetime.

of course there's stuff like graviga, stoneskin-ga and phalanxga, but those are bonus~

Nowwww, if only scholar actually had the same amount of cure potency a WHM had with Cure5 (onto cure4) then that would be really fun =)

i'm sure there's more to it like aspirga etc etc, but aside from what has been stated, scholar doesn't exactly "just" nuke.

Fuck it give it to the cors, watch em be the 1st to get drawn in on timmy.

Yes!



TL;DR version: Novio should go to Blm, scholar is too busy with doing too many other things to slap back and forth between support/heal to focus on DD, if you wanna be a DD mage by all means, use black mage.

Novio to Blm prz, and thx :3

[Acturus]

TL;DR version: Novio should go to Blm, scholar is too busy with doing too many other things to slap back and forth between support/heal to focus on DD, if you wanna be a DD mage by all means, use black mage.

Novio to Blm prz, and thx :3

If my linkshell wants me to come SCH in order to nuke in events my linkshell coordinates, then my linkshell should afford me the same opportunities as any other nuking class to acquire gear for that purpose.

If my linkshell wants me to come SCH in order to utilize my versatility in both party support and nuking, then my linkshell should still afford me the same opportunities as any other nuking class to acquire gear for that purpose as well as afford me the same opportunities as any other party support class to acquire gear for that purpose.

Which is why it needs to be up to that specific linkshell to decide priority. A nuking SCH gets as much benefit froma Novio as a BLM, but if a linkshell insists that no SCH in their ranks ever will ever attend an event in order to nuke, then I can justify why that linkshell would deny a SCH the opportunity to lot on an item like a Novio in the way that a BLM can lot.

[The Blackrose]

You just attempted to strictly relegate SCH to Light Arts in Tabula Rasa when LA/DA are on 0 recast with infinite strategems. Not to mention in your situation where you just broke out approximately 30,000 HP, you probably got your ass nearly, if not completely leveled by whatever you were fighting. No amount of -Enmity is going to save you when you're playing around with one of the heavy hitters in terms of enmity generated in the game.

Furthermore, there are some points where no, we are not doing everything. In fact, I have to now go out of my way to not step on other support jobs' toes. And if we are in a party for a specific role, we're there to fulfill that role. If I'm there to nuke Timmy like the red-headed stepchild he is, I'm already slapping on my 320/120 gear after Thunderstorm/Klimaform hits and going to town. Within that time, I'm going to be maximizing that with everything I have at my disposal. This includes Novio.

EDIT: And on a minor note, I have broken out Tabula Rasa for Light Arts-related stuff only once. Every other time it has been for Dark Arts-related usage.

[Zosi]

Saying "Come BLM if you want to nuke" is great if you have set duties during events that never ever change. Personally, I think it's pretty damn useful to have someone who CAN drop into a BLM's role without warping and changing jobs should we not need their support or cures at the moment. The opposite is also true, it's very nice having a "fake BLM" who can swap parties and main heal temporarily should the situation require it.