novio vs sch

[Fng]

Save the argument and give it to a Primal Rend BST!

[The Blackrose]

Save the argument and give it to a Primal Rend BST!

Superior answer. Give this man a Novio.

[Magicide]

Heh. It's really amusing to see people try to point out that because SCH can excel in one area of the game - in this case, emergency 2hr healing - they should be excluded from gear that augments their ability to excel in other areas as well. The whole "if you want to nuke, level BLM" argument is just so stale. Yes, when it comes to breaking m.def on mobs like Tiamat and Khimiara, or unleashing huge spike damage on Faffy, BLM > SCH. If that's all your LS is doing, fine, except we're talking about Novio earring to begin with here, which is a sea item, and there are many aspects of sea where SCH > BLM as a nuker. What option does a BLM have to do 1600 damage/minute on JoF even with the helpers still alive where the mimicked version back on you does ~60 damage tops? What job can practically duo one of the JoT copies with a decent tank by keeping up low-cost practically-hateless DoT's and healing at the same time? What job can better sustain the endurance fight that is keeping up with JoJ's endless squid spawns?

For that matter, what job can unleash more total damage in the draining its mp pool on low-resist mobs through half-cost nukes? What job can unleash a ridiculous amount of damage in a short amount of time via its 2hr, which in turn can wind up being particularly critical in timed zones like Limbus and Einherjar (just last night as SCH, even though I was in the tank party, I helped my LS greatly by swapping to dark arts, unleashing my 2hr, and proceeding to unload ~12 nukes before my mp pool was dead in just under a couple of minutes).

I'm not saying BLM isn't much better in the right fight, just saying that as someone that also has BLM leveled, there is an enormous number of events where I choose to come as SCH instead, for the purpose of nuking, simply because my SCH will outperform my BLM in that specific event. As a Novio would help my performance in that role, it would help the LS, and to exclude SCH's from novios because of preconceived notions that BLM is the only true nuking job and that SCH's expertise lies elsewhere strikes me as very misguided.

[EternalSnow]

As a 75 sch and a 75 BLM. I can honestly say that I not only outnuke my blm as sch, but I outnuke it over time. My ls leader has let me come to many events on sch and I am able to keep nuking constantly and get my mp back while blms are resting. I don't care what any blm honestly says. But Sch out nukes BLM point blank period over time especially. I feel that the sch has the right to lot the earring as well.

[Eightyone]

atm its BLM only no points added at all, reason being it can be sold and we want to keep it in the linkshell.

Because we all know if a BLM lots it, it becomes Rare/EX (/sarcasm off). Being able to be sold is a BS reason to make it BLM only. Stop lieing to you LS members.

[Day]

I don't think that's what he meant.

[Magicide]

Because we all know if a BLM lots it, it becomes Rare/EX (/sarcasm off). Being able to be sold is a BS reason to make it BLM only. Stop lieing to you LS members.

Um wat? The whole point of LS's restricting jobs able to lot high end sellables is and has never been to mandate keeping them in the linkshell, but rather just to encourage it. Obviously LS leaders know that there's no way to prevent it altogether, but a BLM or SCH that lots a novio is FAR more likely actually to use it (and thus, keep it within the LS) than is a melee job that's, say, working on a relic. From experience, BLMs that lot a novio tend to keep it. SAMs don't.

[five]

My shell used to have blm only on novio for job priority, however about 6 months after scholar was implemented and people saw it's uses they changed it and allowed scholar to lot on same tiers as blms. Personally, I think scholar should be given a chance to lot one, considering scholar nukes are half decent and alot of the time you are given that chance to nuke.

[Marokko]

I think the sch should be able to lot it, especially if they are a dedicated member.

Saying that "only blm should get it because it is more useful for the shell" is too utilitarian for my taste.

Bottom Line- If a blm and a sch have an even amount of points blm wins, but if the sch is dedicated they deserve one.

[Day]

Give it to the person, not the job, within common sense boundaries. Don't treat your shell members like they ARE the job they play. Obviously don't give the Novio to SAM or something, but between something like SCH and BLM, let them both lot if they have the points. This is pretty common sense, been an entertaining thread either way. lolblm =(

[Indalecia]

system is all point based. some items give a +point to some jobs. such as E body

E body gives war and drk+50 points when they bid on it.

rid i think is +50 as well for drk and war.

why i am so mixed to let it or not is, even if the blm is there 75% as much as the sch, that sch nukes but 1 in every 6 events we do. this i why it is so hard for me to give it to him... thanks for the input if ya got anymore info keep posting, i like to see what everyone thinks.

Note:i do understand a sch can nuke fairly well. do not get me wrong that is why we are thinking of lifting the blm only call on novio.

Going off that statement, give sch same priorty as blm. It really is that good.

[Thorgridson]

I always look at it that way; you got the points for it? means you worked for them = you can lot it as long as you can use it. (BLM+Ridill=NO)

[Suiram]

I guess it depends on how you set up your lotting structure. I wouldn't dispute that SCH is an effective magical damage dealer, but the fact remains they are so multifaceted whereas for BLM it is their primary responsibility. It's like, if there is a good tanking piece that both PLD and RDM can equip and which would be equally beneficial to both in that capacity, then even if your LS uses RDM tanks just as often as PLD tanks, you would still probably put PLD ahead of RDM, because RDM as a job performs such a variety of functions, whereas tanking is all a PLD does.

Now, if you would put both PLD and RDM equal in that situation, though, then you would probably put BLM and SCH equal on Novio. It's about being consistent with your lot system's overall structure. I do think you should definitely have SCH able to lot it in some capacity, though.

[ringthree]

Enjoy:

Kanican - Scholar Guide (Part IV)

Kanican - Scholar - Post Patch

Edit: Just scroll to the bottom and read the conclusion if your too lazy to read the whole thing.

Although very good information provided in those posts, it should be noted that it requires a huge amount of gear to get to the situations he describes.

I can't think of a reason why SCH shouldn't be able to get a Novio, though.

[Duvelamilla]

I tend to agree that it should be based on points/performance in LS just as well as job prio.

If you have a BLM that shows up to 5% of LS events and a SCH that shows up to 95% and they have equal points )cause SCH has spent more on other things), why reward the BLM and cause a detriment to your shell when the BLM does not show up to help?

[Grenfang]

There's always been a fine line between giving gear to players and giving it to jobs. I would never give a Homam body to a PLD, for instance, even if they have all the points in the world, over a THF or DRG who needed it. I wouldn't give w.legs to a DRK over a PLD or RDM, and I wouldn't give ridill to a THF over a WAR or DRK. Some pieces are just far more useful on some jobs than others. However in this particular case, i would say SCH gets about the same amount of utility out of this earring as BLM does, so if the SCH has the points, let him have it.

[Kainos]

There's always been a fine line between giving gear to players and giving it to jobs. I would never give a Homam body to a PLD, for instance, even if they have all the points in the world, over a THF or DRG who needed it. I wouldn't give w.legs to a DRK over a PLD or RDM, and I wouldn't give ridill to a THF over a WAR or DRK. Some pieces are just far more useful on some jobs than others. However in this particular case, i would say SCH gets about the same amount of utility out of this earring as BLM does, so if the SCH has the points, let him have it.

Why deny PLD if it is something he wants? Who says THF or DRG need it? THF is around for treasure hunter and its not going to turn a DRG into a SAM,WAR or DRK. I can see the Ridill argument because of it's rare and not always gonna claim at kings... but limbus or pop NMs?
If the person put the time and and earned the points not letting them lot is just going to create resentment.

[Dammerung]

I'd give BLM about a 10% boost over SCH on Novio, assuming SCH likes to nuke things.

I'm a SCH and I like my Novio (blm@63 and rising though!)

[Yugl]

There's always been a fine line between giving gear to players and giving it to jobs. I would never give a Homam body to a PLD, for instance, even if they have all the points in the world, over a THF or DRG who needed it. I wouldn't give w.legs to a DRK over a PLD or RDM, and I wouldn't give ridill to a THF over a WAR or DRK.

So what about those instances where players come to events as classes they don't want to be on for the sake of supporting the LS? Should players be burdened simply because they happen to have an extra class that the LS needs? You might say well if the DRK has PLD and wants Wyrmal Legs, he can come to events as PLD, but there are exceptions to this. First, there may be a greater supply of PLD in the LS than DRKs. In which case, it would be better for that player to come DRK instead of PLD. Second, a lack of a needed class will demand that players with multiple classes stay on one class. For example, if an LS barely has enough BLMs to perform an event, a leader will keep that small pool of players on BLM. In both cases, the class that the player uses is determined by external forces. Furthermore, because these situations can be reoccurring, it follows that they may rarely gain the opportunity to utilize gear they want for their "secondary" classes. A prime example of how these two scenarios occur is 2004 sky. Before TP burn strategies on GNMs were developed, LSs utilized SC + MB method. Back then, it was essential that there was a BLM PT within the alliance. Yet, he only piece of gear they receive from sky is Zenith Mittens. Most of the remaining gear is centered around DD. However, because BLMs were necessary and BLM scarcity was an issue (For some LSs at least), most players stayed on BLM. If drops were distributed according to how they would be utilized at events, then how would the people forced to play BLM gain access to gear for their SAMs and MNKs? Should they sit at the bottom of the list even if it means that the only piece of gear they'll see for months in Zenith? If so, then it would be reasonable for BLMs to pick up another sky LS or stick with a dynamis LS

[Day]

That's why you do it by player and not by job*

*within common sense boundaries.

Lets all say it again.