FFXI Reasonable Doubt

[Destinye]

As people seem to forget, the STF are not GMs nor do they constantly communicate with GMs.

But as usual..it's "SE's failure, players had ZERO to do with it." It's an old topic and people need to get over it, but are people still seriously saying it's all SE's fault?

[Day]

http://i42.tinypic.com/ivg60w.jpg

[Xno Kappa]

Get off the damn moral high horse. I never once stated it's all SE's fault, but to say they were clueless about what was going on is ridiculously misleading.

[Corrderio]

ea mmo - Google Search

Is it bad I laughed when the first thing that came up was "EA sucks at MMOs?" >.>

[The Blackrose]

But as usual..it's "SE's failure, players had ZERO to do with it." It's an old topic and people need to get over it, but are people still seriously saying it's all SE's fault?

You read too much into it.

Everyone's a loser.

[Zilong]

To put into perspective, I remember putting that JP blog mentioning how the flag for duties tasks and deeds allows for people to do salvage more than once a day by canceling Wyrmseeker Areuhat option.

That glitch lasted like less than 24 hours after it was up on BG without getting deleted by the mods.

[ringthree]

While I understand the cut of the jab, I think this is the first time I have seen any MMO let a glitch of this caliber slip by for so long. Even SOE and Verant, back in the day of EverQuest, had knowledge of glitches or dupes that were in the system and were at least in the planning process to fix them.

Tit-for-tat, I do think he has a point in saying that compared to other MMOs, SE let this one stay in the wild for way too long. They could have at least acknowledged that there was an issue and warned that further use will result in a drop of the hammer. I was not surprised by the outcome of SE's decision to swing the hammer, however, considering I've seen worse.

I would agree about your comment that I don't know of a glitch this devastating going this long, but that is pretty hard to disprove (because we don't know about them ). I know that EQ2 had a serious glitch that was around for quite some time and it was even worse than the Salvage dupe, but I don't know how long it was around.

But that's the thing about glitches, they aren't expected, and no matter how hard you try you can not get them all. I understand the argument that it was a very "effective" dupe, and that it's knowledge in the player base was relatively widely known, but I have explained several times as to why that doesn't mean very much necessarily.

I think it speaks more to SE's need for more communication with the NA player base than anything else about their internal business practices.

[Byrthnoth]

There's a difference between reworking your game's instancing engine and fixing some NPC dialogue. I wouldn't be shocked to find whoever wrote the Salvage/Assault/etc instancing engine ended up moved to another department/project in SE and bureaucracy kept the glitch from being fixed by him/her, leaving no one qualified on the FFXI team. This issue is dead though, should just lock all these threads and be done with it.

[ringthree]

Get off the damn moral high horse. I never once stated it's all SE's fault, but to say they were clueless about what was going on is ridiculously misleading.

Check my previous comments on noise vs. signal on GM/STF/whatever reports and reproducibility for some alternative and hopefully not "border-line retarded" explanations on how it is actually quite easy for them to not know it was going on. Also, consider my previous statements on the time frame for their actions from the time that the glitch became common knowledge.

I just think the explanation that SE are just human and can miss things much more persuasive than assigning SE evil intent or complete incompetence.

[Corrderio]

There's a difference between reworking your game's instancing engine and fixing some NPC dialogue. I wouldn't be shocked to find whoever wrote the Salvage/Assault/etc instancing engine ended up moved to another department/project in SE and bureaucracy kept the glitch from being fixed by him/her, leaving no one qualified on the FFXI team. This issue is dead though, should just lock all these threads and be done with it.

This

I don't know much about how gave devs for companies works, but it does make sense that after one person is done with a system they'd move them over to help with another system and such.

I think it speaks more to SE's need for more communication with the NA player base than anything else about their internal business practices.

This also, if Hirokei is correct about players submitting this to the bug forum on SE's POL site then yeah I do think the communication between the players and gave dev/everyone else involved with the game is pretty poor.

[Tagus]

Is it possible to get so sick of a topic that you come full circle and feel like talking about it again? I hope not, because if that chain of events is a possibility, I've got to be sick of the salvage bannings to the point that this should soon occur. I'm imagining a dead horse desintegrating into biological fertilizer and being brought back into the cycle of life through it's own consumption and subsequent energy conversion by worms. Or something. Omg I'm getting a headache. Way to go, guys.

[Katarzyna]

I just think the explanation that SE are just human and can miss things much more persuasive than assigning SE evil intent or complete incompetence.

BG is just human too, but you and others demanded they admit wrong-doing.

[Destinye]

BG is just human too, but you and others demanded they admit wrong-doing.

Yet there's still some people that believe they were wronged by being banned. So regardless whether bg/se is 'human', someone pretty much explained once that whole salvage (not duping) thing was posted and left alone, it was fixed pretty quickly compared to when the duping thing got out the folks here deleted said topic and it went un-noticed.

That isn't to say it's purely BGs fault, but the fault doesn't rest 100% on SE, it may have been reported through the "proper channels", but instead of stopping the abuse of it people continued, so for all you know SE just wanted to see who were dumb enough to continue abusing it.

[Colenzo]

god what a worthless thread

[Katarzyna]

That isn't to say it's purely BGs fault, but the fault doesn't rest 100% on SE, it may have been reported through the "proper channels", but instead of stopping the abuse of it people continued, so for all you know SE just wanted to see who were dumb enough to continue abusing it.

I still don't see how pointing fingers at an unsupported forum originally created by a linkshell not affiliated with SE in any way is going to solve future issues.

[Tagus]

god what a worthless thread

You said it. Is there anyone here who is still trying to argue a point? And if so, what is it?

[ringthree]

BG is just human too, but you and others demanded they admit wrong-doing.

You are completely wrong. I just wanted someone like Sept to say that what Wafik did was just human. Wafik made a mistake, but everyone was defending it as if he did the right thing for the right reasons. I was just holding them to the same standard.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's best in my opinion to accept that and move on.

You are way over blowing my statements about "BG's" responsibility.

[Destinye]

You are completely wrong. I just wanted someone like Sept to say that what Wafik did was just human. Wafik made a mistake, but everyone was defending it as if he did the right thing for the right reasons. I was just holding them to the same standard.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's best in my opinion to accept that and move on.

You are way over blowing my statements about "BG's" responsibility.

Is he one of those mythical 'forerunners' I hear so much about? If so, of course he's above the rules of mere mortality.

[ringthree]

Is he one of those mythical 'forerunners' I hear so much about? If so, of course he's above the rules of mere mortality.

Are you intentionally just ignoring what everyone else writes and just repeating yourself?

[W1z8it]

We all felt great and had our fun laughing at the expense of some idiot players who had gotten themselves banned after laughing at everyone else who hadn't duped and claiming they'll never get banned, but now it's just not funny anymore, it's just sad and pathetic, and the subject just won't go away like the plague, the OP is retarded for digging up old dirt.