"Rapture" to replace FFXI as premiere SE MMO... =(

[Correction]

I think the better question is why is it nearly a year old >.>

I'll take a few guesses:

1) Not every company that makes an MMO releases monthly statistics.

2) Even if you get a few companies publicly releasing yearly sub stats, there's a high chance those numbers are massaged ('accounts' versus 'active players', etc etc) unless you're in the top 5, necessitating estimates on the part of researchers.

3) Estimates don't make sense to update frequently unless you have a reliable source, at which point they stop being estimates and you can refer to the first reason mentioned.

[Corrderio]

I'll take a few guesses:

1) Not every company that makes an MMO releases monthly statistics.

2) Even if you get a few companies publicly releasing yearly sub stats, there's a high chance those numbers are massaged ('accounts' versus 'active players', etc etc) unless you're in the top 5, necessitating estimates on the part of researchers.

3) Estimates don't make sense to update frequently unless you have a reliable source, at which point they stop being estimates and you can refer to the first reason mentioned.

Got me there, but I'd think things would have changed a bit, considering WotL being out and some other things.

[fusionx]

Link?
Only thing i've seen about SE having any info on rapture at E3 was an article in EGM that if i recall was a rumor.
And really that has been a rumor for as long as the game has been in development. Everyone keeps thinking "Maybe this year they'll show us something..."

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-...ml#post2513142
Link direct to post with links to other sites that have more info.

So.. you linked me to a post that has a link to an article quoting EGM article I referred to as well as the article i wrote on the matter of it being a rumor? GG

I wanted to know where Square Enix has officially said that it would be shown at E3. Not where EGM and myself said it was a rumor.

[Kimiko]

So.. you linked me to a post that has a link to an article quoting EGM article I referred to as well as the article i wrote on the matter of it being a rumor? GG

I wanted to know where Square Enix has officially said that it would be shown at E3. Not where EGM and myself said it was a rumor.

I'll see if a couple of my contacts can get a confirmation on that for you.

Edit: Apperently this was confirmed in the December issue of EGM, being that Milkman is the source for this article, that's bout as close to the dev team as you can get: http://www.aionsource.com/forum/cult...009-quote.html

[Hyan]

I find that to be the fault of FFXI. Items obtained in WoW might last a few weeks or a few months, but nothing lasted infinitely. The fight to kill the boss(es) to finally get that item made it feel more like an accomplishment than waiting for Fafnir to finally drop your Ridill. I think "day for day", I logged off WoW feeling like I accomplished more than I did with FFXI and with FFXI, I pretty much killed almost every HNM minus like JoL, AV, and Vrtra at the time I stopped. Yeah, now there is some more stuff, but apparently they are a joke too.

And I still have to disagree with another statement. When FFXI releases and expansion, one the biggest things that people are clamoring for is the new items. We all get excited about getting new things.

I find that to be the fault of Wow, really. Though, from every possible mode of endgame that I've seen HNM camping is the worst. But that's why I never touched that part, it's as simple as that. Like in WoW, raiding isn't the only way to do endgame, there's also PvP. It's the same in FFXI, HNM's aren't the only thing there is, although that's the way it seems when there is an FFXI vs. WoW argument. Fafnir this, Fafnir that. But I don't have such experience, and oddly the endgame isn't so bad for me.

And I guess I'm weird, but I don't find Salvage to be much of a chore even after doing it 4 times a week for 2 years now. I guess it's because I look at my group as a whole. I might wait for a piece for months, but when somebody in my group gets something it's the same feeling as if I had gotten it instead. When we're all 5/5, it's a lot better than if just I was 5/5. So I dunno, I never felt like I was 'starving' when I thought about it like that. And also getting to do the events with your friends makes the events more bearable, as well as the little random factor in nyzul and salvage. So I guess like somebody said before I found my way to avoid the shit :D.

[Destinye]

Why is it people rarely talk about how horrible A LOT of WoW's aspects are when comparing it to usually 1-2 'horrible' aspects of FFXI? Seriously throughout this topic so far the main gripe is BS like HNM/AV/PW/"omfg I have to spend time to get rewards and everything should be 100% drop rate and I should get rich off my ass just by leveling"..HNM/AV/PW aren't the only things in this game, so much fucking delusion on what's "wrong" with FFXI.

All MMOs worth their merit will usually have a skewed time vs reward aspect to it. That's why it's an MMO..so to put a end to the whole WoW vs FFXI bs:

FFXI = Online Game considering it has the the proper way to keep people playing by having skewed drop rates.
WoW = Offline RPG you can play online with friends considering it's like every offline RPG where money and drops rain on you.

[Okan]

FFXI = Online Game considering it has the the proper way to keep people playing by having skewed drop rates.
WoW = Offline RPG you can play online with friends considering it's like every offline RPG where money and drops rain on you.

So how does this put an end to the whole debate? You just "bashed" WoW to make FFXI seem better.

I've done the end-game scene in both games. I know the faults with WoW as in that once you start raiding and have acquired some gear, there is not a whole lot else to do but farm between raid nights. Except, FFXI has the same fault. And just add "level another job or alt" for both games.

WoW did away with most world spawns and in fact, because they are so sporadic, you don't camp them. You check after a raid a few days after it was killed and if it was up, you run down and hope to kill it first. FFXI is still LIVING off their world spawns that are actually OLDER than WoW. And by today's standards, FFXI could also be an "offline RPG you can play online with friends" now that parties are not required to level any job. You can FOV up to 40'ish and then switch to campaign.

WoW has the same "skewed rewards" because the great rewards are rare drops from bosses. Ask ANY Pre-TBC raider about Warlock and druid gear at Onyxia, MC, and BWL. I can't COUNT how many times we got double cenarion off the first two bosses in BWL. And we didn't get TOEPs on every kill either. So it's just like your normal Fafnir kill with e. hands and Andvaranauts drop with nothing else. Actually, it's easier to equate to Sky. Sky bosses ALWAYS drop something... Just not the somethings you are looking for.

And of course HNM/AV/PW aren't the only things in FFXI. But let's evaluate them and compare them to the options I had at level 60 and 70 in WoW.

Assaults: Required to use a tag. Can only do a few a day. Limited.
Nyzul: If you didn't use your tags in assault, you can use them here. If you did, LOL can't come here.
Salvage: Lengthy and EXPENSIVE. Sure, each run isn't lengthy, but how many people argued about how horrible these drop rates are to obtain anything and THEN you have to spend tons of money to get the full item.
BCNMs: ENMs are limited to conquest cycles or days. BCNMs need Beastmen Seals which don't exactly drop like candy. KSNMs are the same problem.
Sky: Lengthy and annoying to obtain pop items against other people and farmers who sell them.
Sea: Can low man first tier bosses, but after that need alliance.
ZNM: Limited to spending gil to buy lenses to take pictures of monsters for zeni to spend on items to pop other bosses, but you're limited to how much zeni you can acquire a day. Can low man a few bosses, but after T2 from my knowledge, it's a waste to low man and that is where all the good items are.
Dynamis: You can't truly "low man" this. You can by saying you didn't go with 64, but you still need at least 18'ish to make any attempt at progress beyond a few mobs.
Einherjar: Impossible to low man. Decent rewards via ampoules, but the gear isn't anywhere comparable to what has been out for YEARS and in fact they finally put the highly sought after abjurations not obtained via sky in a place that people can have a chance without sitting in DA for 3 hours a day for 2 years and STILL don't have it
Merit Parties: If you're not really doing anything above, this is just a time sink keeping you from feeling like you completed leveling your class.

In WoW at level 60, 70, and probably 80:
Raids: Usually new content is added every 6 months to a year. Though now you need 25 people and the fights are made so that 25 people have to be well coordinated. One person can totally mess up your fight(s) and 99% of the time, a boss fight gone wrong is not recoverable. Wipe and reset. Bonus is that it's instanced and wiping will not give the other guild your boss.
PVP: PVP rewards are PVP gear. It's not great for raiding or instancing, but it is for PVP. New gear is added over time to allow growth. Better players obtain it faster, but casuals can obtain it over time. Many different variations of PVP too.
Instances: Easy to relate to Nyzul and Assault. Go in, run through the area and kill trash, get to a boss and kill it and it will drop gear. Probably not what you're wanting though. (Edit: Instances in WoW do not lock out unless you are running the heroic (harder) version. You can run it all day to finally get the piece of armor you want)
Instanced bosses: Much like Einherjar. Go in, kill a few waves of trash. Kill boss. Locked out for a few days. Need a full raid.
Farm: Any class can farm items to craft or money for their consumables they'll need for their next raid or instance. There are daily quests that you can do once a day for a gold reward too. Sort of similar to the Campagin Ops, but imagine a gil reward instead of Allied Notes.)
If you're not in to raiding, all their really is to do is PVP and run instances.

I'm sure I missed a few things that both games offer, but this is really about it. To me, FFXI really does feel like a chore. At times, WoW felt like a chore too. I felt obligated to keep playing WoW because of certain things, but I eventually broke away. It did take time to gear up players regardless of what you non WoW players might have thought. So you gear up 25 people to make a raid and have progressed so far, someone quitting hurt because now you have a hole in your group of someone who both understood previous boss fights, but had gear that allowed them to keep up on new boss fights.

To me, FFXI stagnates because of this. There is no progression. If I left 4 years ago wearing an Adaberk and holding an Apoc in my hands, I'd STILL be better geared then 95% of the other players. How is this fun?

[dejet]

can some of the mods stop this wow ffxi crap really. its getting old no side is going to give in keep this on topic about rapture and ffxi. your in the "FFXI advanced Player Discussion" drop the darn wow crap. im sry at all that i added to the fire before.

>.> i cant not answer back to this one part of your post b/c you keep getting it wrong lol.

To me, FFXI stagnates because of this. There is no progression. If I left 4 years ago wearing an Adaberk and holding an Apoc in my hands, I'd STILL be better geared then 95% of the other players. How is this fun?

Gear they put out is always better, it may not break the game but its always better. The only thing that does not fall under new gear> old gear. Is relics. Thats it. A lot and I mean a lot of the new sets are so good its not even funny. usk set for sam monk nin. Gives you so much haste and acc and store TP you can change every other item to fit better. So do not just say RoZ> all. because this is very false. WoTG gear you get with AN's is very good for pup monk(if you cant get rare/ex gear from a shell) and so great for pld, SW drops some the best gear in the game, DI has great mage items that outdoes any other item before it.

People look at the RoZ stuff and 3 kings as the end all of gear. ya the D ring still holds as the best ring, ya the relics do as well but thats it. Even rid is not as good as it use to be with 2 hand update. in FFXI people want to see you get better, the way this works is you start most the time in sky. this is why people say its so great... if you want you could find a good set of friends and just get all the new gear and you would be better geared then most the sky sets. its a myth, sky is easy HNM are easy.

we have 1-2 people like Okan throwing the topic so far off now i cant even see the last post about ffxi, outside of FFXI>wow. last post is more then a full page. getting little out of hand lol

[Okan]

Actually, the argument still sort of stands because while we all do like FFXI or we wouldn't be here, there is just a HUGE majority of the game we don't actually like.

How many people liked standing in the Aery for 3 hours only to watch some other LS claim Nidhogg? How many times did you get conned in to standing in the Dominion because some LS member said "100% KB today" (No such thing) and you get just NQ Behemoth or some other LS beats you to KB?

How many people liked getting one piece of Salvage armor every 5 months?

How many people liked getting forced to play a job they didn't like or were tired of? (Queue RDM and BRD mains that wanted to play as their DRKs or WARs, but are forced BRD anyway).

This is how the argument started. People are sick of what Square Enix didn't do. I mean it honestly, but if Square listened to more suggestions and continually changed the gear and tiered their armor so that sky and kings didn't drop the best even after 5 years and instanced the HNMs we wanted to kill and added half of this crap they added in December 4 years ago, continually balanced their classes to that PUP was a contender in damage and it wasn't a SAM versus everything game , this game might have a larger subscriber base. Of course people took a few jabs saying WoW is a better game, but in a sense they are right and you can't argue it. Majority rules and ten million beats five hundred thousand.

Anyway, both games have their perks and both games have their downfalls.
[Edit: Side track thought cut me off from finishing a previous one. Fixed the sentence.]

[dejet]

okan. drop it >.> thats my last post that has anything to deal with what you or a wow player says go fight it out somewhere else not in the FFXI Advanced Player Discussion.

[Okan]

And my last post was entirely about FFXI. Sorry you can't accept that FFXI isn't perfect, but it's not. A lot of us actually fear that SE didn't learn anything and that Rapture will end up being just like FFXI.

[Hyan]

Well, I didn't find the comment bashing WoW because at least I prefer offline RPG's to online ones >_>

But yeah from what I see for WoW its raid or pvp if you're into endgame.. More diversity would be cool but I kinda understand blizzard doesn't have time to do anything different.. at least the bosses are interesting.

[dejet]

And my last post was entirely about FFXI. Sorry you can't accept that FFXI isn't perfect, but it's not. A lot of us actually fear that SE didn't learn anything and that Rapture will end up being just like FFXI.

i guess you cant read... you have answered to my posts before where i said its fine you like wow and i liek FFXI... stop attacking people just because. theres no reason for you to be attacking me right now when what your saying is not even right. you are just posting to post and start wow ffxi drama.

[Okan]

I'm not attacking you*. I'm adding insight for people who never played WoW. People don't do things because of untrue rumors. If I said Billy just did his first skydiving lesson, but hit a rainbow and died, someone will believe me. I know this is sad, but this is a fact that it will happen. (See: YouTube - Sprinkler Rainbow Conspiracy for evidence of stupid people) So people that have never played WoW and have no idea what they're talking about, but are spouting "The game sucks because of XXX and YYY, but FFXI is awesome because it doesn't have XXX and YYY" upset me. Deal with it.

* I only attacked you because of your previous "I got to level 30 in less than a day" comment which was totally untrue. I know for a fact as well as anyone else that played WoW that you did not get to 30 in less than a day. If you did, show me your level and /played. I expect to see that your played is less than 12 hours. If it's more than 12, this means you meant less than a day /played which is a HUGE difference and secondly you knew enough about the game to know where to level, what to kill, where the quest mobs and NPCs where so you obviously liked the game enough to start an alt character and even though I doubt you could do 30 in less than 24 hours played. If you did get to level 30 in less than a day, you obviously knew someone or many people who helped powerlevel you through instancing bugs, questing assistance, or the Recruit-A-Friend that literally gives you some absurd amount of experience per kill to allow friends to shoot up to level 60 to join their higher level friends.

[Hyan]

But you're really biased, so it's not good insight at all :/

[Okan]

Biased how? How is it any less different than all the FFXI bias going on here? So someone doesn't share your opinion on FFXI and isn't bashing WoW. He obviously has no idea what the hell he's talking about!

Yeah, I might be a bit more biased towards WoW, but i still enjoy FFXI. I'm just sick of how ancient a lot of this game is. I was also sick of the daily grind in WoW. There wasn't tons and tons to do for me in WoW after I quit raiding because all the gear I had was far better than I could ever obtain in the regular instances. I tried other classes, but didn't enjoy them, or at least didn't enjoy them during the 30+ grind. Though I've leveled 3 characters from 0 to 60+... doesn't mean I want to keep doing it.

[Katarzyna]

Gear they put out is always better, it may not break the game but its always better

That comment is "lol" worthy. Seriously...it's ALWAYS better?

[BRP]

FFXI is a better game than WoW because this thread is turning into flamebait.

[Hyan]

Biased how? How is it any less different than all the FFXI bias going on here? So someone doesn't share your opinion on FFXI and isn't bashing WoW. He obviously has no idea what the hell he's talking about!

It's not really any different, but I hate both kind.. can't make a good argument if one/both sides are biased.. dejet is a pretty good example of that :/

There's no need to bash WoW... different opinions are also good thing, but if we take sides there's going to be much exaggeration and false stuff included. I can't say I'm not biased towards XI, but I find WoW to be generally better. I just prefer how SE does some (important to me) things, but what Blizzard does isn't wrong or anything, it's just not what I'd like.

[Antithesis]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...68/Rapture.jpg

You know, is it just me or does that sorta look like a very good reskin of Marduk's Jubbah?