2009 MLB season discussion*

[Cephius]

I wasn't complaining about it, I saw a graphic of the pitch on another site, thought it was funny, and copy pasted it here. I wasn't like OH MY GOD WE NEED INSTANT REPLAY ON EVERY BALL AND STRIKE! Why the hell would I care? I'm not a Nationals fan.

And why do you keep bringing up replays? You're the only one talking about it. We're not saying review every play, just commenting on how one horrible call was compounded by a retarded explanation. But by all means, carry on your "They're right but I don't care so I'm going to argue something completely different" crusade against those damn knowledgeable Yankee fans.

[Bregor]

I watched Randy Johnson game, sure it was a bad call and I even posted about it here. But I don't think anyone was whining. I saw the replay of the Jeter call, it was a bang-bang play, and while the ump's explanation is a head-scratcher, who cares? It wouldn't be news if it was Nick Punto in a Twins/Royals game, nothing to see here, move along. But it's Jeter and the Yankees, so it's ZOMGWTFBBQ U STOLE A GAME FROM US!!!!11 (Not saying fren/Ceph are doing that, but plenty of people are, and Sportscenter had a longer segment on it than most of the Stanley Cup conference finals games ffs.) Anyway, 162 games is too long a season to get worked up over bad calls for any longer than two minutes, it's not like Ed Hochuli can single-handedly ruin your season.

[Ensam]

it's not like Ed Hochuli can single-handedly ruin your season.

unless you miss the playoffs by 1 game.

[Cephius]

unless you miss the playoffs by 1 game.

Don Denkinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia would also like a word with you

[Penthesilea]

unless you miss the playoffs by 1 game.

Shouldn't have sucked the other 161 games.

[Bregor]

unless you miss the playoffs by 1 game.

One strike or ball, fail or foul ball, or one blown call on a stolen base isn't even a fraction of a win or loss. That caught stealing happened in the 1st, the Yankees still had every opportunity to win that game. Hochuli basically took a guaranteed win from the Chargers with one minute left in the game. Those differences aside, the last time I checked, 1/16 is a lot more than 1/162. If you miss the playoffs by one game, it's going to be by a lot more fault of your own doing than any vast conspiracy of umpires.

Denkinger's call is different, because that was in the World Series. If Jeter's caught stealing was in the World Series, then sure I'll buy any rage about it. Also imagine Hochuli's call in the Super Bowl, that sure would have been fun.

[Cephius]

It's not a conspiracy, or anything like that. We understand the season is long. But when so many playoff division races are decided by one game, or less if there's a playoff game, these calls matter. What's to stop one of these bad calls from happening in the playoffs? Remember the playoff game with the Rockies and the terrible call at home? The Rockies don't make the playoffs - much less the World Series - without a call like that. To act like these things don't matter because it's a 162 game season is silly. Just sayin. This isn't even about the Yankees, most Yankee fans are more upset by the explanation than the actual call. But it does shine the light (again) on umpires getting calls wrong and not being held accountable.

[Ensam]

that's trivializing every play and every game though. Every play is important, every game is important. You can't act like it has no impact on the game and no impact on the season.

Staying with the theme of Jeter's CS, the play alone cost the yankees an 8% chance of winning the game, and that's not including the % increase if he would have been safe.

I also hate the argument of "it'd slow down the gamee". How much did Jeter's and then Giraridi's arguing hold up the game? Replace that time with the time it'd take to review. Viola, no time lost.

It'll never happen but I'd love for umpires to be done with. And I tell you basically any hitter that doesn't swing at everything would agree as well. There's already technology that says where exactly a ball crossed the plate that's available instantly. Fuck blues. Too much control over the game is given to them. And doesn't matter if it's an idiotic reason (the jeter CS) or honest human mistake/error/whatver (Denkinger), it takes away from what actually happens on the field.

[Bregor]

I'd love for umpires to be done with.

Spoiler: show

http://theanteheroes.com/Humor/MassFacepalm.jpg

So honest human error is a big enough problem in professional baseball to replace umpires altogether? Fucking lol. Where's Tex's 0-for-5 on that graph? Where's Pettitte's lack of control on that graph? Oh wait, I'm sure it was all bad calls that made him walk five. The truth is, there were probably about 20 more guys on the field who factored into the outcome more than that umpire did. So their human error is part of the game but an umpire should be infallible?

Ceph, at least I think you're being reasonable about this. And I do think that the explanation Jeter said he got was laughable. But it's not that these calls don't matter, it's that given the sample size of 162 games, they matter less than in other sports. Short of Ensam's dream of having HARDAC call games for us, I don't really see a way around it.

[Cephius]

There's a case for both sides I think. Human error has been a part of the game since it came around, and a lot of people don't want to get rid of it. But on the other hand, calls matter a lot in baseball and I think most of the players themselves wouldn't mind a computer making the calls if it guarantees they're all correct. Not sure if I'd personally want that, but a case could be made... especially after last year when the MLB and owners basically admitted the blown HR calls had gotten so bad that it deserved a HR review system to be implemented.

I'm not cool with the comparison to football, either. Football is a fight, the Referee is there to maintain order. Baseball is a chess match, and umpires are supposed to represent the game of baseball on the diamond and enforce the rules to the letter. They're held to a higher standard, and for good reason. Football and Basketball etc are all mostly subjective and open to interpretation a bit. Is every hold in football called? Of course not. Does it matter in the end? Nah. It's pretty clear cut in baseball... you're either safe or you're out. Outs are the most important thing in baseball, so its kinda important that they're called the right way.

Will anything be done about it? Probably not. But I'd still like to see umpires held accountable when they make blatantly bad calls... and the explanation yesterday should be inexcusable.

[Stiker]

It'll never happen but I'd love for umpires to be done with. And I tell you basically any hitter that doesn't swing at everything would agree as well. There's already technology that says where exactly a ball crossed the plate that's available instantly. Fuck blues. Too much control over the game is given to them. And doesn't matter if it's an idiotic reason (the jeter CS) or honest human mistake/error/whatver (Denkinger), it takes away from what actually happens on the field.

I'd never want to watch or play that brand of baseball. Umpires are so much a part of the game, their removal would turn the game into something completely different.

Pitchers try to take advantage of a larger strike zone, batters will take more pitches when an umpire squeezes a pitcher, shadow touches of 2nd on double plays, "45 degree" and other balk pickoff moves, etc -- all that would be gone if umpires are.

I've benefited and been screwed from blown calls by umps (and mind you umps that are not of the MLB caliber). It's a part of the game and you are taught to deal with the umps as a part of the game. If you want baseball without human error, go pop in a video game and ensure any blown call option is off.

[Bregor]

There's a case for both sides I think. Human error has been a part of the game since it came around, and a lot of people don't want to get rid of it. But on the other hand, calls matter a lot in baseball and I think most of the players themselves wouldn't mind a computer making the calls if it guarantees they're all correct. Not sure if I'd personally want that, but a case could be made... especially after last year when the MLB and owners basically admitted the blown HR calls had gotten so bad that it deserved a HR review system to be implemented.

Maybe I'm just a purist, but that human error is what makes sports enjoyable for me. Part of going to a ballgame is getting to yell at an ump if he stinks, and if they were replaced by computers I just wouldn't feel right shouting ones and zeroes. I agree that the role of an umpire is much different, and less subjective, than referees in other sports. And if there was a glaring enough problem or an obvious place where they can improve the system, i.e. home run replays, they should do it. I just don't see it as an improvement for any other aspect of umpiring.

As for holding bad umpires accountable, that's fine with me. I think the NBA recently held a multi-year study collecting data on officiating performances, and they cut the pay or amount of games worked by the guys who finished at the bottom. If MLB wanted to do that, or fine/suspend umps for really bad calls like the caught stealing, I wouldn't object to that.

[Ensam]

So honest human error is a big enough problem in professional baseball to replace umpires altogether? Fucking lol. Where's Tex's 0-for-5 on that graph? Where's Pettitte's lack of control on that graph? Oh wait, I'm sure it was all bad calls that made him walk five. The truth is, there were probably about 20 more guys on the field who factored into the outcome more than that umpire did. So their human error is part of the game but an umpire should be infallible?

what?

do you not understand what I'm saying?

All I read right in this paragraph is "wooooosh"

And it's not that's it's a "big enough problem" (wut), it's that it's completely moronic. There are systems already in place that can make calls 100% accurately instantly. Why stay with umpires, seriously? Do you still wash your clothes in a river and ride a horse to work?

[Viq]

In real baseball news, the Jays made it known that they're considering offers for Roy Halladay. Doc has a full no-trade clause, but still has next year under contract for $15mil. Would the Jays be crazy enough to trade him within the division to NY or Boston? I doubt it, but this is what mid-summer sports talk radio dreams are made of.

[Akiyama]

They'd want WAY too much for Halladay. No way he's getting dealt.

[Headspace]

Someone on ESPN said they're probably looking for 5-6 prospects, including a teams #1.

[Orph]

They'd want WAY too much for Halladay. No way he's getting dealt.

Some reports are saying he is basically gone. Just depends who puts up the most for him. Early leaders are the Phillies and Yankees. But its been reported that they may not trade within the division.

[Pringles]

Depends how much Boston or New York are willing to offer them for him. I have a feeling both teams would be willing to part with a lot of money and/or players to get him.

[Akiyama]

No. IMO, the Phillies and Yankees don't have enough prospects to deal for Halladay considering that Toronto wants 5-6 of the team's best prospects + their #1. That'd be like Atlanta trading away Hanson + their top 5 prospects.

[Headspace]

Can we call this series yet? I'm tired of watching the Phillies offense.