2009 MLB season discussion*

[Cephius]

As a guy who watches Church every day when the Yanks aren't playing at the same time, you'll love him. He is a good player that suffered under the terrible medical staff of the Mets and Jerry hated him for whatever reason. He is a balanced player with a bit of pop and plays a decent right field. I believe Frenchy has a better arm but Church isn't much of a downgrade. He'll fit nicely into the Brave lineup.

As for the Mets... I just have one question. Why oh why would the Braves be willing to trade a 25 year old outfielder to a division rival when his value is low? That doesn't raise any alarms? They were shopping him to the Marlins too for Cody Ross... tells me there's something about him that they don't like. I really think Omar just cracked under the MAKE A DEAL OR ELSE pressure of NY.

[*Shinzon*]

Wow they really traded Church? What the fuck. I know the OF was crowded but Church is a good fucking defensive of and saved a lot of triples in citi field. What the hell would they be thinking. God I think I'm about ready to just give it up on them this season. I like Church and even though hes a streaky hitter he's always a good defensive player what the fuck man.

[Akiyama]

We got Ryan Church? Er.. maybe I'm missing something, but isn't he hurt like.. a lot? Maybe it was just last year with his problems and then Omar/Jerry not liking him for whatever reason as mentioned. I dunno. I'm sure the offense in the OF just got a whole lot better and I'm surprised by the trade, but I do welcome it. As much as I love Frenchy.. the guy just has no plate discipline at all.

[Ensam]

God I think I'm about ready to just give it up on them this season.

As a Marlin fan, the Mets are now behind the phillies and braves of teams I'm worried about for division title. You definitely hate to say a season is over when there's still 3 more months of baseball but it just doesn't look bright for the Mets.

Has there been a team that has sucked worse to root for since '06? I mean, yeah, it sucks to root for the Pirates or Nationals, but you know you're going to suck. In '06 you lose to a team that finished the year with 83 wins, losing in game 7 with one of the best hitters in the game up with the bases loaded. '07 your the best team in the NL for 5 months and then just collapses in September thanks to bad starting pitching among other things. Get Santana, things have to turn around, but then '07 repeats itself because of a bad bullpen. Shore up the bullpen this offseason, but then everyone gets injured.

You have to wonder how much longer this core of Mets have to win. Beltran and Delgado and Santana are really getting up in age. Reyes becomes a fa after '11 and Wright in '13. The farm system is extremely bare and the supporting staff for the core is real weak (especially now that church, one of the few good supporting players, is now gone).

I mean, when you have a payroll like the Mets, as a fan you don't really have that much to worry about, you're not going to become the pirates or nats. But I wouldn't blame a Mets fan for being pessimistic.

[Ensam]

We got Ryan Church? Er.. maybe I'm missing something, but isn't he hurt like.. a lot? Maybe it was just last year with his problems and then Omar/Jerry not liking him for whatever reason as mentioned. I dunno. I'm sure the offense in the OF just got a whole lot better and I'm surprised by the trade, but I do welcome it. As much as I love Frenchy.. the guy just has no plate discipline at all.

Last year was basically the only time, and the guy had a concussion, which is very serious. But it seems he's back 100% from it.

[Plow]

You clearly aren't from around here.


A tremendously exciting Royals season means we might finish above 500. Playoffs though... yarite.

Oh, yeah I know. The Royals haven't been relevant in a very long time. I'm hoping they do well, but I've already been bitched at by a few Royals fans who suddenly appeared out of no where because they are doing well. Isn't it funny how that works? Happened with some Celtics fans I knew a couple years ago when they were suddenly a shit ton better. Fairweather fans can suck a dick.

afk being depressed /sigh

[Melena]

Dunno if it's been bitched about but god I hate fan balloting on the allstar game. Maybe it's cause I'm a giants fan but Pablo got fucking shafted. And bengie's stats are up there with his brother and mccann. Oh well at least we got two cy young canidates and the second best nl record as compensation.

[Alderaan]

Being a Braves fan from NJ isn't exactly easy. I hate both NY teams but i'm not sure how i feel about Frenchy's trade. I agree he had to go, he wasn't cutting it. At least we didn't hang onto him like we did with Andruw for far too many seasons. Our pitching has been great this year, what i grew up being used to, and we got an absolute steal in McLouth. We haven't had decent offensive numbers since Baylor was out hitting coach. I love TP, he helped turn us around, but it's something to think about.

[*Shinzon*]

As a Marlin fan, the Mets are now behind the phillies and braves of teams I'm worried about for division title. You definitely hate to say a season is over when there's still 3 more months of baseball but it just doesn't look bright for the Mets.

Has there been a team that has sucked worse to root for since '06? I mean, yeah, it sucks to root for the Pirates or Nationals, but you know you're going to suck. In '06 you lose to a team that finished the year with 83 wins, losing in game 7 with one of the best hitters in the game up with the bases loaded. '07 your the best team in the NL for 5 months and then just collapses in September thanks to bad starting pitching among other things. Get Santana, things have to turn around, but then '07 repeats itself because of a bad bullpen. Shore up the bullpen this offseason, but then everyone gets injured.

You have to wonder how much longer this core of Mets have to win. Beltran and Delgado and Santana are really getting up in age. Reyes becomes a fa after '11 and Wright in '13. The farm system is extremely bare and the supporting staff for the core is real weak (especially now that church, one of the few good supporting players, is now gone).

I mean, when you have a payroll like the Mets, as a fan you don't really have that much to worry about, you're not going to become the pirates or nats. But I wouldn't blame a Mets fan for being pessimistic.

It's just ridiculous because how long, despite his huge contract, can you keep Santana happy with a team that will fail to score or almost inevitably commit errors behind you. According to Mets management Reyes Delgado and Beltran are all going to be gone for unknown periods and I'm not sure what the deal with putz is. As you said theres not much talent behind Pagan (who always gets hurt playing good defense), Martinez (who needs much more AAA experience before hes really ready) and Nick Evans who is ok but really not much of a threat. I mean Murphy wasn't as dangerous a hitter as everyone pegged him to be last year and with guys like Castillo, Delgado, and Beltran getting older, and all the Free Agents soon; theres going to be alot of open positions that are going to need to be filled.

[Soa]

Dunno if it's been bitched about but god I hate fan balloting on the allstar game. Maybe it's cause I'm a giants fan but Pablo got fucking shafted. And bengie's stats are up there with his brother and mccann. Oh well at least we got two cy young canidates and the second best nl record as compensation.

Yeah it does suck, and Sandoval definitely deserves to be there no doubt. The Phillies got kinda screwed last year too with Howard and Burrell so I feel your pain. Burrell was the 3rd best outfielder statistically and didn't get picked, and Howard was leading the majors in HR's and RBI's and got left off too. Hell Howard deserved to go last year much more than this year but having your manager picking reserves has its perks.

I can also understand why Werth was picked too, since the NL was short on OF's and he was the best available statistically, but I know that doesn't make you feel any better.

[Akiyama]

Grats to Jonathan Sanchez on the no-no. Fantastic.

[Cephius]

Grats to Jonathan Sanchez on the no-no. Fantastic.

[asshole] Who? [/asshole]

Grats to him though. Giants sure can pitch.

Sure things in life: Death, Taxes, and the Angels beating the Yankees...

[Ensam]

/more impressed Sanchez had 0 walks than 0 hits

[Viq]

Grats to Sanchez. That's the first no-no this year, right? Oddly enough, it comes on the night when John Lester faced the Royals at Fenway for the first time since he no-hit them last year.

[Bregor]

From Rob Neyer's blog on the Frenchy/Church trade, Omar Minaya:

One thing we like about Francoeur is the amount of games that he plays.

lol

Since his days with the Nats, I've always liked Church. He has decent range and can play center in a pinch, has good pop from the left side and a good arm. He's 30 so he's not young, but he has plenty of value to the Braves I think. As for Frenchy... I just don't know. He's always kind of lived off the reputation of that half-season when he first came up, plus some healthy RBI totals from batting in the middle of a good lineup. But a sub-.650 OPS in his last 900 ABs or so, that's not even adequate for a SS much less a corner outfielder. I'd be ecstatic about this if I was a Braves fan.

Sanchez? That was surprising, just yesterday the BT guys were saying that Lincecum was basically a no-no waiting to happen every time he took the ball, and the Giants get one from the guy they bumped from the rotation.

[Boyiee]

/more impressed Sanchez had 0 walks than 0 hits

He almost had a perfect game. Rediculous pitching in that game.

[*Shinzon*]

That trade really just makes no sense, anyone know what Church and Frenchy's contracts were for? I'm curious if this was just an attempted salary dump/throwing in the towel for the year in preparation for next year. Man I really liked church, hes got some talent, ugh this trade as a mets fan makes me so mad.

Edit: Just read this off the mets site along with this video lol:

NEW YORK -- The Mets traded right fielder Ryan Church to the Braves for Jeff Francoeur prior to Friday's contest with the Reds.

Francoeur hit .250 with five home runs and 35 RBIs in 82 games for the Braves this season. Church, meanwhile, batted .280 with two homers and 22 RBIs in 67 games for the Mets.

"This is a trade that's not only for now, but for next year and beyond, because of the youth of the player and that what he does fits the ballpark," general manager Omar Minaya said.

Francoeur, 25, is known across the league for his defense in right field. He won a Gold Glove Award in 2007 and has more assists than any other big league outfielder since he made his Major League debut in July 2005.

"This ballpark plays better for Francoeur because, even though Ryan Church is a good defensive player, Francoeur covers a lot of ground," Minaya said. "Base hits to right field -- you just don't run [on Francoeur]."

Francoeur looked like a star when he burst onto the scene in 2005, hitting .300 with 14 home runs in 70 games for the Braves. He drove in more than 100 runs in each of his first two full seasons while playing all 162 games.

Francoeur tailed off in 2008, batting just .239 with 11 home runs and 71 RBIs.

"Omar has always talked to me and told me how much he likes my energy and the way that I play," Francoeur said. "I'm looking forward to getting up there and playing in front of a packed house every night."

The biggest concern regarding Francoeur is his plate discipline, or lack thereof. Francoeur has walked a total of 127 times in 2,632 career plate appearances, or roughly once every 20 times up.

"Plate discipline has been an issue with Jeff," Minaya said. "Because he's 25 years old, I think he can improve on that."

Minaya also said the team "needed something different" and is far from done in the trade market.

"We've got to keep on trying to do these kinds of things," Minaya said. "We're not going to say, 'This is it.' As a front office, we're going to do some things to shake it up."

In order to get Francoeur, the Mets dealt one of their few regulars remaining from Opening Day. Church, who had a stint on the disabled list that bridged the end of May and early June, seemed to find a rhythm with everyday playing time. In his 28 games since returning June 7, Church hit .290 with a home run and 14 RBIs while playing both right and center field.

"It was a shocker," Church said of the trade. "I have no hard feelings. I loved it here, got a chance to meet a lot of great people and play for a good team."

Church, whom the Mets acquired after the 2007 season from the Nationals, got off to a sizzling start with the team last season. In the first 43 games of the year, Church hit .315 with nine home runs and 32 RBIs. Church, however, suffered a concussion -- ironically, in Atlanta -- near the end of May 2008, and never was able to regain his form at the plate. He finished the year batting .273 with 12 homers and 49 RBIs.

The Mets were widely criticized for how they handled Church's concussion, which included flying him to Colorado that week and reinserting him in the lineup before he was fully ready.

"It probably could have been handled a little different," Church said. "But it was just one of those things -- we were in uncharted water."

There was also talk earlier this season that manager Jerry Manuel was not Church's biggest fan. Church, for one, looks forward to getting back at his old team when the Braves host the Mets in a four-game series next weekend.

"They're going to have to change up a lot of signs," he joked. "I definitely know how to play a lot of these guys."

Tim Britton is an associate reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

Video: Can't link the vid, it's on Mets.com after the advertisement.

[Viq]

That trade really just makes no sense, anyone know what Church and Frenchy's contracts were for?

Frenchy's making $3.375m this year, and has a couple years until free agency. Church is making $2.8m this year with a total $150k extra he can make in bonus based on PAs (400, 450, 535, 550). Church has almost identical service time as Francouer, so he's not eligible for free agency for awhile.

[*Shinzon*]

I guess Manuel just really fucking hated Church :/

[Melena]

With how maddening Sanchez is with his inconsistencies, I'm damn happy he was able to do this. You really can't take more advantage of a second chance like he did last night.