2009 MLB season discussion*

[Cephius]

So, is Ortiz the biggest hypocrite ever or the biggest hypocrite ever about steroids?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sp...r=2&ref=sports

Don't wanna hear it from Red Sox fans anymore about A-rod.

[Stiker]

So, is Ortiz the biggest hypocrite ever or the biggest hypocrite ever about steroids?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sp...r=2&ref=sports

Don't wanna hear it from Red Sox fans anymore about A-rod.

Considering his sharp decline, I can't say I'm shocked at all. He was the next name I was waiting to come out.

I'm still hoping Pujols will be clean, but hell at this rate, I'm not holding my breath.

[Headspace]

Griffey's still clean.

[Cephius]

Just for reference, this is what Ortiz said in Spring Training:

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- David Ortiz wants players who test positive for steroids to be suspended from baseball for a year instead of the current 50-game penalty.

Taking players to court, though, for cases involving use of the substances before players were subject to penalty is not the way to clean up the game, the Boston Red Sox designated hitter said Monday.
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"I would suggest everybody get tested, not random, everybody," he said. "You go team by team. You test everybody three, four times a year and that's about it."

And if a player tests positive for steroids?

"Ban 'em for the whole year," the slugger said.

The current penalties are a 50-game suspension for a player who tests positive once, 100 games for a second positive test for the same player and a lifetime ban for a third positive test, though a player can seek to return after two years.

Philadelphia Phillies pitcher J.C. Romero was suspended last month for the first 50 games this season after testing positive for a banned substance contained in an over-the-counter supplement.

On Sunday, Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen called for a one-year suspension for a positive steroids test.

"I think you clean up the game by the testing," Ortiz said Monday. "I know that if I test positive by using any kind of substance, I know that I'm going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans and everybody, and I don't want to be facing that situation.

"So what would I do? I won't use it, and I'm pretty sure that everybody is on the same page," he said.

He drew a distinction between the use of steroids through 2003, when it was not penalized, and the period since then when testing with penalties has been in effect.

Miguel Tejada pleaded guilty last Wednesday to lying to Congress about performance-enhancing drug use in baseball. Barry Bonds pleaded not guilty earlier to charges that he lied to a grand jury in 2003 when he said he never knowingly used steroids.

"All the drama, bringing that to court and acting like those [are] serious criminals, it doesn't look good for the game," Ortiz said. "It's not like something that is happening right now. Everybody that has been taken to court, it's because they did it in the past when it wasn't banned from the game."

Alex Rodriguez has said he used banned substances between 2001-03, when he was with the Texas Rangers.

Ortiz said that at that time, "I would say it was certainly low, the percentage that wasn't using it. Like he said in the interview [with ESPN], that was what was going around the league at the time."

He praised Rodriguez for saying he used banned substances and said that after 2003, "he's been playing clean and he still produced and he's still been the best player in the game. So if I'm a fan and I had to judge the guy, I would put that in the past and move forward."

Now, Ortiz said, he believes the percentage of users is very low. And he said he might even accept blood testing for banned substances.

"I don't care. Whatever," he said. "I just want to go out there and make sure that people are not looking at you like, 'Oh, look at this guy. He's big now. What's going on?'"

Ortiz is trimmer and appears more muscular this spring training than he was last season.

He said his left wrist feels fine after a torn tendon sheath sent him to the disabled list twice last year and limited him to 23 homers, 89 RBIs and a .264 batting average, all personal lows in his first six seasons with Boston.

"Sometimes I listen to comments and it just does nothing but make me stronger," he said. "I heard people say, 'He's getting old.' Whatever. I just turned 33 so I've never seen a player being called old at 33.

"Those negative comments that people make about you just for one year that you've been off because of injuries and things like that don't make any sense," he said.

He also said the Red Sox could use another slugger after the July 31 trade to the Los Angeles Dodgers of cleanup hitter Manny Ramirez, who provided protection in the lineup for Ortiz, who hit third.

Would he like to see Ramirez, who is unsigned, return?

"Why not?" he said, though he knows it won't happen.

But, Ortiz added, "We're going to be fine. We have a lot of good hitters."

With every position settled but shortstop, where Julio Lugo and Jed Lowrie are competing, manager Terry Francona questioned where Boston could fit a slugger into the lineup.

"I think our base running will be better. I think our defense will be better," Francona said. "There's a lot of different ways to be better than other teams, not just hitting a three-run homer. I'm actually pretty comfortable with our team."

That includes Ortiz, now motivated by the naysayers who thought he was over the hill.

"I don't have to prove nothing here," he said. "I have done it all here. I'm just going to try to maintain myself healthy and just let people know that they were wrong."

So.. is he going to throw himself out of the game now? Or what?

[Stiker]

He drew a distinction between the use of steroids through 2003, when it was not penalized, and the period since then when testing with penalties has been in effect.

Miguel Tejada pleaded guilty last Wednesday to lying to Congress about performance-enhancing drug use in baseball. Barry Bonds pleaded not guilty earlier to charges that he lied to a grand jury in 2003 when he said he never knowingly used steroids.

"All the drama, bringing that to court and acting like those [are] serious criminals, it doesn't look good for the game," Ortiz said. "It's not like something that is happening right now. Everybody that has been taken to court, it's because they did it in the past when it wasn't banned from the game."

Not that I want to give him excuses, but it does seem like he gave himself and out. Does it make him less hypocritical? Hell no. I remember Clemens doing the same bullshit before and after he got linked.

[fren.]

Hahaha, caused NYYFANS to crash. Fucking hilarious shit.

[Brill Weave]

So you would rather keep the same shitty .400 team on the field rather than trading for pieces that will allow you to become a winning team? I really don't understand this. If you're team sucks, why do you still want to have the same shitty team just so you can say "I know that guys face"?

Hi, follow up on the Pittsburgh Pirates before tossing your comments out there. The Pirates are approaching 17 years of consecutive losing. That 17 years of not even cracking .500 ball. Do some research and take a look at all the of the players who were here then traded away year in and year out. Aramis Ramirez and Jason Bay are two of them just to start. Here in Pittsburgh we have been forcefed lines about how all players will be held accountable for years. Literally, YEARS. We're not talking two or three years dood, we're talking 16 years.

This isn't a new approach for the Pirates. This is a yearly occurance. And I have news for you, if the prospects they end up getting turn out to be decent, they'll be traded within two years of their break out seasons. The Pirates have no interest in winning. As to the whole comment about knowing a guy's face, apparently you failed to read the part about them contributing. Learn what you're talking about then come back and if you feel like defending the Pirates moves then we'll talk. Until then, stay in the dark and make idiotic statements to someone who lives in Pittsburgh and experiences what the Pirates do year in and year out.

Would you cheer for your team as hard if you didn't know a single player on it? Would you cheer your team as hard if you watched them trade away the only players that contribute? Multiply that feeling by sixteen.

[fren.]

"I still haven't had it verified"

" It's possible he got the positive test and corrected his ways and never used again"

This might be it for Gammons.

http://i30.tinypic.com/r6wbdd.gif

[Akiyama]

I was just listening to Gammons. He's probably about ready to say "I give up" or something. This must be hard on the guy. Manny was a given, but Ortiz wasn't as much to him obviously. I, for one, am not shocked at all. Everyone knows that the way he's fallen off the map has been a tad suspicious, but there were people out there that just didn't want to believe it. Maybe all the Cubs players should take this lesson to heart; just cheat and use steroids, and you can finally break the curse. After all, the Red Sox did it, and probably someone on the White Sox too.

[Cephius]

Ortiz is going to get absolutely murdered by the Yankee fans when Boston comes to NYS next week after what the Boston fans chanted to A-rod. Day of reckoning...

[Mizango]

So, is Ortiz the biggest hypocrite ever or the biggest hypocrite ever about steroids?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sp...r=2&ref=sports

Don't wanna hear it from Red Sox fans anymore about A-rod.

Exactly what I was going to say looooool. The Sox fans were all high and mighty just last fall with the A-Rod jokes. Time to wipe the pie from your collective faces :D

This laughing, it feels good man.

[Mizango]

I'm a Royals fan btw. Throwing that out there because it's only a matter of time before I'm accused of being a Yank.

can't help you this time.

[Byrd]

I was just listening to Gammons. He's probably about ready to say "I give up" or something.

I'm interested to see how Bill Simmons responds. Cowherd was trying to get him on his show this morning, to no avail.

[Mizango]

I was just listening to Gammons. He's probably about ready to say "I give up" or something. This must be hard on the guy.

Yeah man Gammons just has that "fuck it" look and tone to his voice. He just seems deeply disturbed and bummed.

[Stiker]

Ortiz is going to get absolutely murdered by the Yankee fans when Boston comes to NYS next week after what the Boston fans chanted to A-rod. Day of reckoning...

I hate the Yankees with a passion, but I tell you what, this will indeed be fucking funny as hell to watch.

[Viq]

Eh, I'm not surprised about Ortiz.

[Mizango]

Eh, I'm not surprised about Ortiz.

Sorry Viq nothing personal, I am obligated to haze Sox nation no matter it be man, woman or child for being pretentious dicks just a mere 8 months ago.

You my man and all but this is strictly business.

[Brill Weave]

I take the stance that every prominent baseball player is on steroids until I see proof to the contrary. It's easier that way.

[Trichocyst]

If Jim Thome, Frank Thomas, and Ken Griffey Jr. get linked to PED's I may just give up all faith on a solid 15 years of baseball.

[Stiker]

Griffey being linked to the juice would seriously break my heart.