2009 MLB season discussion*

[Pringles]

As impressed as I am with the yank/sox game last night, I'm even more impressed the nationals are on a 6 game winning streak with their last two games coming back to win down 5-6 runs. That's a sight to see based on their season thus far. I hope for them it goes to 9 or 10 straight for moral on that team, they need it.

[melbufrauma]

Rangers looked pretty solid last night, now just hope bosox and rays can lose some more

[Saga]

Rangers looked pretty solid last night, now just hope bosox and rays can lose some more

Rangers are quickly becoming last year's Rays, as in they came out of bloody nowhere.

[Melena]

So, looks like we claimed Alex Rios off waivers. We have until Tuesday to work out a deal with Toronto. Huge contract, but would solidify an OF position we've had problems with since 2005 after Rowand was traded to PHI (CF)

I've always liked Rios, but his declining numbers are worrisome

Toronto may just let you guys take him regardless to get out of that horrible contract. The compensation would be to afford to sign halliday to a long term deal. And to think for a few moments Sabean considered tradining Lincecum or Cain for him straight up.

[Stiker]

Rangers looked pretty solid last night, now just hope bosox and rays can lose some more

Yeah it was nice to see that offensive explosion, especially from Hamilton. Him getting his stroke back will be huge for Texas and much needed in the stretch.

Rangers are quickly becoming last year's Rays, as in they came out of bloody nowhere.

QTF, I was at best hoping for above .500 baseball and maybe stay close to the Angel for a month at most. Nothing like this though, this has been amazing to watch.

On another note, anyone watching Ortiz bullshitting through this presser right now? Headline: Ortiz - "I did not do steroids". He is claiming all he took were supplements and vitamins...because we haven't heard that one before...

[Cephius]

Did Ortiz really just pull the "I took vitamins" card? Oh god, what a farce. And how convient that major league "john henry has bud in his back pocket" baseball comes out with press releases and statements to support him. What an absolute joke.

Makes A-rod the only guy who seems like a man.

[Saga]

Did Ortiz really just pull the "I took vitamins" card? Oh god, what a farce. And how convient that major league "john henry has bud in his back pocket" baseball comes out with press releases and statements to support him. What an absolute joke.

Makes A-rod the only guy who seems like a man.

Did you really just pull the "Did he really just pull the vitamins card" card? You were convinced he was juicing before the press conference even started. Do some research and quit being a cynical dick: MLB and union: List might not mean positive test - Boston.com

[Headspace]

They all juiced. Give me a break.

[Akiyama]

To be honest, I was actually satisfied with the stuff Ortiz and the Union rep said here. Sure A-Rod came out and said specifics, but then he backpeddled a bit and looked like a fool in many aspects considering his conflicting reports. It would have served A-Rod better to ask for Union help instead of handling it 'striaght up".

As far as Ortiz though, that honestly sounds like something that could happen. Also, the fact that there were eighty three positive tests, and that's not the players is pretty surprising and some relatively new information. I thought this was handled fairly well. At least better than A-Rod or Sosa's case.

[Bregor]

Most of the press conference was a joke. I did like Ortiz's responses, and it's entirely possible that what got him flagged on the list was something in a supplement that wasn't banned until that year. But his former bravado about a one-year suspension seems pretty hilarious now that he's claiming he doesn't want the rest of the list released because of what he's been through this past week.

One of the more interesting questions from the press was to the MLBPA rep, asking why they waited until now for the union to address this in a live press conference, and not when ARod and Sosa's names came up, he said they responded in publicly available court documents and letters to Congress. Yeah, 'cos everyone reads those cover to cover.

The only thing I take away from this was the clarification that the 100+ is number of positive tests, not number of players who tested positive. The list could be a lot smaller than most people think.

[Stiker]

Ok, here is why the vitamin bullshit pisses me off and I don't give it the time of day:

First, yes it is plausible, making it a great fallback card and an easy excuse. It's the "dog ate my homework" excuse of juicing. Yeah, it could happen, but we all know it is likely bullshit.

And second, athletes, especially pros, know what the hell they are putting into their bodies. Especially these days, since teams have nutrition specialists and advisers, these athletes know exactly what they are taking. They have even been warned by said folks to be careful about over the counter supplements because they can't be completely trusted (I have heard more than one former major leaguer go on the air and say this). Using this excuse makes them seem like a dumb jock that just buys something with nice packaging at GNC, and when a test comes up positive it's all "I didn't know durrrrrrrr".

Palmero, Tejada, Clemens, and Bonds (just to name a few) have all used excuses similar to this and they still got roasted by the media and fans. How is Ortiz any different?

[promethius]

I don't know feels like bull to me, These athletes are playing in a time where there is so much at stake by testiung positive for steroides that they should know what they are buying over the counter, you have a bunch of trainers and people in the organization that can check what is legal or not before you take it. The fact that it has taken so long before he has said anything is also against him in my eyes. I remember him saying that before a couple years ago that he wouldn't know if he took something over the counter that was illegal or not and he got killed for that for the same reason i said above, but now all of a sudden it's ok.

A-rod has been clutch this year 11 of his homruns have either tied a game or taken the lead for the yankees. Despite his lower then usual batting average his numbers are pretty solid considering he was garbage his first month back after hip surgery. I can say without a doubt that no other player in the league would have hip surgery a couple weeks before the season starts and still be on track for 30 HRs and almost 100 RBI besides maybe pujols because of how crazy thier workouts are.

[Pringles]

Whatever vitamins and supplements he took must be really good. Looking at his career numbers with the twins to red sox, Ortiz numbers drastically increased after being released by the twins. Not saying he's 100% guilty of doing them, but seriously vitamins don't increase your numbers that much, and if they did why did he only start taking them in 2003 when his numbers increased by close to 15- 25% in almost all categories on the board. Waiting a week to just say it was vitamins almost seems too farfetched to want to believe. Sure it would be more acceptable to say the day after it was only vitamins, but seriously a week later is a cop out.

[Saga]

Didn't he test negative during mandatory testing for six years following the 2003 tests? Everyone says "oh well his numbers from the Twins spiraled way the hell out of control after he joined RS, people don't just get magically better like that." Really? Those couldn't be his peak years? He's had two horrible slumps this year, two months in the beginning of the season and he went 0 for 16 for a period after the all star break. But hitters "don't just lose their strength all of a sudden," that's what everyone says. Can't he just be in a slump? Why does he have to be coming off roids when his numbers dip and he has a bad year coming off wrist surgery?

Edit: and I'm defending him because he seemed extremely genuine during the press conference. He took questions, he didn't dodge anything that I saw, he just seemed genuine. I believe him, it sucks that other people don't but whatever.

also edit: The thing he said a couple years back about maybe taking something illegal or not was the bit about him drinking those protein shakes from the Dominican Republic and not really being sure what's in them.

Also, as potentially lame an excuse the "it was vitamins" thing is, people are just looking for some complex reason he's guilty. I'm going to go with the whole occam's razor thing on this: simplest solution is usually the right one. Instead of juicing up with Manny in the locker room, couldn't he just have taken a supplement not knowing it would test positive? Are you really thinking about that in 2003, whether or not you're fully aware of what you're taking? Do you remember exactly what you were taking six years ago?

Even with the statement from the MLBPA, it's not good enough for anyone and they've got to have some conspiracy going on to defend David, oh boo hoo where were they when A-Rod admitted he took steroids. Just ignore all that and assume he was juicing, it's cool.

[Cephius]

Did you really just pull the "Did he really just pull the vitamins card" card? You were convinced he was juicing before the press conference even started. Do some research and quit being a cynical dick: MLB and union: List might not mean positive test - Boston.com

aahahaha I'm sure Ortiz thanks sheep like you for believing every word out of his mouth. Did you believe McGwire too? Palmero? I'm sure. And how nice it must be for John Henry to have the MLB in his back pocket. Mitchell report + this conference = absolute jokes.

[fren.]

"Supplements"

Is this cat retarded? Come clean and it eventually fades away, lying gets you fucking buried.

"Extreme leap to think someone on the list [of caught cheaters] did steroids"

Haha, where was this shit for Manny or ARod?

[Cephius]

Didn't he test negative during mandatory testing for six years following the 2003 tests? Everyone says "oh well his numbers from the Twins spiraled way the hell out of control after he joined RS, people don't just get magically better like that." Really? Those couldn't be his peak years? He's had two horrible slumps this year, two months in the beginning of the season and he went 0 for 16 for a period after the all star break. But hitters "don't just lose their strength all of a sudden," that's what everyone says. Can't he just be in a slump? Why does he have to be coming off roids when his numbers dip and he has a bad year coming off wrist surgery?

Edit: and I'm defending him because he seemed extremely genuine during the press conference. He took questions, he didn't dodge anything that I saw, he just seemed genuine. I believe him, it sucks that other people don't but whatever.

You're being an incredible homer and have complete double standards. Where were you defending the other guys who have come out before him? Why does Ortiz get the benefit of the doubt? Because he's a nice guy? Because he "seems genuine"? Fuck that, that's no excuse.

[Pringles]

I am curious how many would be believing Ortiz if he was a Yankee and not a Red Sox though. When Arod tested positive Selig immeditaly wanted to take action against him for this, but he is happy and behind Ortiz? I may be a Yankee fan but I don't defend the players who do steroids or other performance enhancer. I never woul defend Clemens or Giambi or Arod. Hell I'm the biggest Pettitte fan out there and I still don't defend him for his HGH use even if it wasn't banned at the time in baseball.

And the whole "some players didn't take the test so that they would test positive so it reaches a certain level of players" is bs. I bet some players didn't take it because they knew they'd pop positive and therefore could use that as a backdoor out. This is why they should just put the list out, let it sweat for a week or two and be done with it.

[Akiyama]

He's probably defending Ortiz because he's a shit ton more likable than Manny, A-Rod, Bonds, Clemens, or any others to be quite honest. Sure, Manny being Manny and all that bullshit, all the fans in LA love him, etc.. but he's a giant douchebag in general. Just look at the All-Star games he's dodged because his 'grandmother died'... twice.

Should we believe Ortiz and what he said? No. Probably not. It's not wise to believe anyone during this 'Steroid Era' we're in. Does it make you wrong if you, as a fan, believe in him? No, it doesn't. You can blindly follow anyone you want. I don't understand making such a big deal about it.

And if you think someone 'seems genuine' and want to follow along, then who are you to say anything about that? Some people have different beliefs. A-Rod when he 'came clean' still didn't sound genuine. Hell, he sounded stupider than ever. Not using A-Rod just because he's a Yankee by the way, I'm just bringing him up because outside of him, Manny didn't really say anything intelligent, and Sosa is just hilarious.

[Penthesilea]

The suppliments thing shouldn't be invalid, but you have to look at cases like JC Romero, the Williamses, and those guys down in New Orleans.

I think all of them supposedly took over the counter things they picked up from GNC or other retail nutrition stores and the products were tainted or did not list all the ingredients.

When will the complete list and what those players tested positive for come out?