2009 MLB season discussion*

[Ensam]

Hes a sportswriter with a clear bias, which while some may laud his writing skills, makes him a biased writer nonetheless. he is not dumb, he knows his rep, and for him to come out within the hour and basically defend manny is bullshit. be objective. say lets wait for further details rather than flat out IT WAS ROIDS I SWEAR. he would not have replied as quickly with such a subjective analysis. he is an old man scared of the threat of his lifelong favorite team having their only world series since hes been alive be remotely discredited.

Was he wrong?

It was objective, he knew it wasn't steroids.

[Kang]

I just heard the Manny steroid thing. All I can say is wow. Dodgers got screwed big time lol.

[fren.]

Breaking down at 33 is normal, though.

Also lol at all the Gammons hate. He's a great sportswriter, and he's right on this (Manny did take a performance enhancer, but it was a different kind of performance enhancer lol)

Elite hitters don't usually fall apart at the age of 33 and lose bat speed to go along with it.

However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is HCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO.

-ESPNews

This shit just got interesting.

[Stiker]

-ESPNews

This shit just got interesting.

inb4manny says: "No, I swear, I just suck at sex right now"?

[Andarvi]

Was he wrong?

It was objective, he knew it wasn't steroids.

we dont know if he was wrong, the fact is he didn't wait himself to find out more evidence before reporting as if he had substantial proof.

[Cephius]

Was he wrong?

It was objective, he knew it wasn't steroids.

Unless you can find me a legitimate medical reason why a doctor would prescribe a women's fertility drug to a male, then yes, Gammons jumped to conclusions and tried to issue a pass before he knew all the facts. Unbiased reporting yay!

[Ensam]

Unless you can find me a legitimate medical reason why a doctor would prescribe a women's fertility drug to a male, then yes, Gammons jumped to conclusions and tried to issue a pass before he knew all the facts. Unbiased reporting yay!

The drug pumps testosterone to to the testicles. Exactly what he said he went to the doctor for.

And, it's used for after a steroid cycle. If Manny was on a steroid cycle earlier, he would have been caught.

[fren.]

The drug pumps testosterone to to the testicles. Exactly what he said he went to the doctor for.

And, it's used for after a steroid cycle. If Manny was on a steroid cycle earlier, he would have been caught.

How do you know he wasn't? which is where the whole "103" players list comes into play. He sure as fuck picked the wrong drug to help him get better in the sac.

[Ensam]

Elite hitters don't usually fall apart at the age of 33 and lose bat speed to go along with it.

and

Jimmie Foxx?

Guys breaking down in their middish 30's was the norm pre-roids.

[Viq]

he is an old man scared of the threat of his lifelong favorite team having their only world series since hes been alive be remotely discredited.

Except it's too late for that. Eric Gagne and JC Romero both got rings in '07. Gammons is obviously biased, but it's not to avoid a tainted championship in Boston.

[Ensam]

How do you know he wasn't? which is where the whole "103" players list comes into play. He sure as fuck picked the wrong drug to help him get better in the sac.

He would have had to been on a cycle recently. It's for right after a cycle. If he was on a cycle recently, he'd have been banned 50 games. Since, afaik, the steroids that you'd actually need to use a testosterone drug for are all catchable. He might have been on the '03 list but this test has nothing to do with '03.

[Bregor]

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Excuse me I need to catch my breath.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Manny being Manny apparently meant juicing, or taking female fertility hormones for some other reason...? Either way, this is too good, I only hope the media isn't tired of reporting on PEDs in baseball give this all the airtime in the world.

As for Gammons, he's just awful. When you only mention three teams 99% of the time (the third being the Rays, and that was only forced upon him by them actually winning the division last year) you should just hang it up. I'm pretty sure most of the regular posters in this thread could write more objective basebal columns than him at this point.

[Pringles]

WTB hits with runners in scoring position. Willing to trade Phil Coke and Edwar Ramirez obo.


*Edit* Also WTB starting pitching that knows how to pitch in the first 5 innings

[fren.]

and

Jimmie Foxx?

Guys breaking down in their middish 30's was the norm pre-roids.

Breaking down as being completely and utterly useless? Foxx posted an OPS+ 139 at age 33. Ortiz was breaking down as early as last year.

[Andarvi]

Except it's too late for that. Eric Gagne and JC Romero both got rings in '07. Gammons is obviously biased, but it's not to avoid a tainted championship in Boston.

Uhh finding out Gagne and Romero juiced is not even in the same galaxy of an impact as finding out manny did. they didnt do 1/100th of the things Manny did. I don't think a couple of scrubs testing positive equals your best player testing positive in terms of discrediting the accomplishments.

[fren.]

He also tested positive in Spring Training:

Ramirez tested positive for the substance during spring training, then had another portion of the same urine – a “B” sample – tested again more recently, and it also was positive. Major League Baseball notified Ramirez of the second positive test after Wednesday night’s Dodgers victory over the Washington Nationals. Ramirez admitted to having taken the substance and declined to appeal. His 50-game suspension begins Thursday.

Ramirez's drug used to stimulate testosterone - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

[KoalaTrap]

Bill Simmons: Manny Ramirez's positive drug test makes the Sports Guy confront his worst nightmare - ESPN

Love Bill Simmons. Pretty much sums it up for me. I hate to think that the extreme joy I felt in 04 and 07 is tainted even if "everyone was doing it." Sad that I was more shocked at seeing the 50 game suspension than another big name to be added to the list. I hope things are cleaning up but if HGH really can't be tested who knows. Players would be stupid to continue after seeing so many examples of what can happen and it does seem like small ball has come back a little, but time will tell. I really enjoy the game and it's a real shame that all my early memories from it when I was growing to love it were from a false era. I'd lose all hope if I found out about NHLers doping during Stanley Cup runs as well.

[Viq]

Elsewhere in baseball, Sox tie MLB record for scoring 12 runs in an inning before recording an out.

[Pringles]

Mariano Rivera gives up 2 back to back home runs in the top of the 9th after Damon ties it back up in the bottom of the 8th. Fuck my life. I feel like an O's fan.

[Headspace]

We split this time Archi, but I think we're one game up on the Brewers in the season series so far. Now to watch the incoming 3 game slide to the Cards. (Cueto pitches tomorrow though so yayyyyy)