2009 MLB season discussion*

[archibaldcrane]

I like ARod but I don't think he should be eligible for the hall either unless his records from Texas are wiped clean, which they will never do.

If they wiped clean Barry Bonds' record from his steroid era, he'd still have 400 HRs, 400 SBs, 3 MVPs, I think 8 golden gloves, etc. etc. That's wiping out 8 seasons.

3 MVPs. Before steroids. It's unfortunate that the -by far- best player of our generation had to try to take it to the superhuman level with roids, because he was fucking sick without them.

[Ensam]

At the time too though, teams were giving their players amphetamines. Trainers would hand them out to players like candy, before they got banned. They were legal as over the counter drugs in the US well up until the 70's (which is when Aaron took it). Steroids on the other hand were illegal during the time they came out (during the 80's and 90's by the US). Sure it's a game of tomato tomatoe, but one substance was a legal tool used at the time up until it was banned while the other became popular after it was deemed a controlled substance and use was considered illegal.

actually most things taken weren't illegal. For instance, what A-Rod took at the time was not illegal, it wasn't made illegal until IIRC 2005. All "Steroids" are not illegal.

Also the cream Bonds took was legal.

[pohibaba]

If they wiped clean Barry Bonds' record from his steroid era, he'd still have 400 HRs, 400 SBs, 3 MVPs, I think 8 golden gloves, etc. etc. That's wiping out 8 seasons.

3 MVPs. Before steroids. It's unfortunate that the -by far- best player of our generation had to try to take it to the superhuman level with roids, because he was fucking sick without them.

Yeah, this was exactly my point. Almost no one thinks that Barry Bonds used any sort of performance enhancers before 1999 as his numbers are very consistent up to that point. Here is a quote from "Game of Shadows:

Before steroids, Bonds was an outstanding player and a likely Hall
of Famer, the numbers affirm. In more than 6,600 at-bats over 13
seasons, he batted .290 and hit 411 homers with 1,216 RBIs. He made
the All-Star team eight times and was selected the National League's
Most Valuable Player in 1990, 1992 and 1993. Had he retired after the
1998 season, he would rank 40th on the all-time home run list, above
Duke Snider. His 1,357 walks would rank 28th.

Using a mathematical average to roll those 13 seasons into a single year,
we see that Bonds, before steroids, hit for average and power and was an
excellent base runner. The composite Bonds year during that period looks
like this:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP
86-98 146 509 105 147 31 5 32 93 34 10 104 81 .290 .411

Like I said, if he doesn't make it in the Hall of Fame for his pre-steroid stats alone then it proves how much of a sham the Hall voting really is; it will prove that it's simply a popularity contest and not an accurate measure of who the best players in the game were.

[Viq]

Dice-K stuff

The two most common rumors around Boston right now are:
1) Boston's going to adopt a 6-man rotation for about 2 weeks to buy some time while getting a little extra rest for the staff as a whole. Bard would most likely get sent back to Pawtucket to make space for Smoltz. While it's not an ideal situation, it makes sense on a couple levels.

2) Brad Penny's days are numbered. The Sox have mentioned that there's a possibility that Smoltz could do one extra rehab start. While they play it off as just being extra cautious with Smoltz, most believe this would just be used to buy time to lock up a deal to get Penny out of town in exchange for a bat.

Personally, I think the Sox will sort of adopt a 6-man rotation. With the way their off days are set up, they could actually have a 5-man rotation while Dice-K sits. Of course, adding Smoltz still requires a roster move, and again that would likely be Bard simply because of how new he is to the majors. The Sox have a history or easing guys in, and often shutting guys down for a short time during the middle of the season. I think they would take this time to give Bard a rest, and make sure that he's 100% ready for the rest of the year. I'd have to check, but they may have some flexibility with Baldelli's contract. He would be another option to clear a roster spot now that Kotsay is back, although I don't see Francona wanting to drop an extra bench guy during interleague.

Ideally, Matsuzaka agrees to get sent back to extended spring training. That would essentially solve all of their awkward roster issues. As was already mentioned, he can't be moved without his consent, and who the hell knows what he's thinking?

[Akiyama]

The difference is that this year the H in WHIP is a big problem. He's always walked guys, but he also led the league in Opponent's batting average last year. He would walk the park, but people couldn't get hits to drive those runs home. Now he's hittable, and that's the difference.

As for Smoltz, I'm interested to see how he pitches when he comes up to Boston. I think he'll do alright knowing that he can go balls out for 5 innings and hand the ball to the best bullpen in the game. I'm not expecting him to be the 2nd coming of Nolan Ryan, but he'll be a decent 4th or 5th guy. With the way Beckett, Lester and Penny have been pitching lately (yeah, Beckett sucked in Philadelphia. It happens) they really don't need Smoltz to step in and be the man.

I also heard that Penny could possibly be on the trading block. Any truth to those rumors?

Edit: Nevermind, you just answered the question in the above post. D:

[Soa]

I honestly don't know anyone who would want Penny unless the Sox eat the contract. He's at best a #4 who can barely get to the 6th inning, and I can't think of any contender who would want him (even Philly).

Who knows though, the SP market is looking really thin right now so someone might bite.

[Saga]

Are you kidding? He's had phenomenal outings his last 4 or 5 starts, and as Boston's number 4 starter, for Penny to be our second weakest link in starting pitching is a really nice problem to have. Most teams are dying for pitching and would kill for a number three or four starter as good as Penny has been. Some teams are even in desperate need of a number 2 starter. Penny's quality stuff. He started out the season rough, but Beckett had his rough spots too and has skated into a rhythm (save our third game against the Phillies).

But now with Ortiz' double and homer tonight (went 2 for 3 with a walk), making four HRs in the last five games, Lowrie's return imminent and Nick Green starting to make plays when it counts, I'm really not sure what the Sox need right now. Maybe a first baseman who can hit really well? And move Youk to third? Lowell's on his way out in a year or two, hard to see them putting him as DH. Wouldn't mind seeing Cabrera back here, or maybe a trade for Victor Martinez..who knows at this point, everything's so up in the air honestly. It's a good problem to have, but a problem nonetheless.

Also: Ortiz now batting .375 and slugging just over 1.0 in the last seven games. Hopefully this is him coming out of his slump.

[Headspace]

Thanks for the win aki. Now for the sweeep

[Akiyama]

No problemo. I told you =P

[archibaldcrane]

The Brewers would gladly take anyone to replace Manny Parra. We just sent that waste of space down after his last start, I don't even think we're carrying a 5th SP at the moment. Bring on Brad Penny I say.

edit: apparently we have some douchebag named Chris Narveson in our SP rotation now - his body of work in 2009 is 1.2IP, 3H, 3BB, 3ER. Awesome.

[Viq]

I honestly don't know anyone who would want Penny unless the Sox eat the contract. He's at best a #4 who can barely get to the 6th inning, and I can't think of any contender who would want him (even Philly).

Who knows though, the SP market is looking really thin right now so someone might bite.

Penny's contract is pretty reasonable. He's getting $5mil this year, so if a team were to trade for him soon they'd only be looking at around 2.6-2.7mil for the rest of the year. He's got some bonuses for innings pitched and games started ($500k for each of 160IP, 170IP, 180IP, 190IP, 35 starts. $1m for 200IP). He's probably only going to get about an extra million from bonuses, but they could work something out where the Sox pick up the tab for the bonuses. With how well Penny's been pitching for the past month (ERA about 3.60, 24K/4BB, getting his fastball back up around 97-98), he's in a great position to be traded.

[Cephius]

Buddy just pointed this out to me.

Washington Nationals Fan Forum | nationals.com: Fan Forum

Try clicking on the message board. Apparently the Nats don't even bother maintaining a message board... lol ouch

[Eticket]

*Dominant due to steroids. I'm sorry, yes they are all good players, but the steroids just tarnishes even the best of players. If they make it into the hall, it sends the message "Yes they cheated, but they cheated to become the best so it's okay". This is why kids in high schools across the country are using HGH and anabolic steroids and getting caught. In my area, a kid who was a dominant running back at a local high school, set school records and got a football scholarship and all got kicked from his scholarship because he tested positive for steroids.

Letting them into the hall makes Hall of Fame seem less of a milestone. Hall of Fame is suppose to represent the best of the sport in their actions as players. Using steroids to get there cheapens the Hall. Putting these players next to players like Aaron, Ruth, Gehrig and Williams makes it seem almost a joke. Aaron hit 755 legit, Bonds hit how many legit? I bet he doesn't even know.

If you're going to let steroid users into the hall, you might as well let Pete Rose in. I mean he just bet on baseball, but never against his own team. What makes him betting on other teams different than injecting himself or rubbing cream on his knees? It's still cheating, it's against the rules of the game. Putting in career leader in home runs who is tied to steroids is okay, but not putting in the career leader in hits isn't? Double standards.

It's becoming more and more apparent that the best players in the era were all on something. They were the best players of a tainted era in baseball. In the long run it makes sense to induct them and add an exhibit to the hall that explains just how out of control the era was. Also, if you think teams would hand out shit like pep pills to their players but somehow didn't have any knowledge or control over the steroid/hgh explosion then I've got a Ken Griffey Jr. rookie card to sell you.

In regards to Pete Rose, I think he and Joe Jackson should both be in the hall. There should also be full disclosure and if needed condemnation of their actions.

Buddy just pointed this out to me.

Washington Nationals Fan Forum | nationals.com: Fan Forum

Try clicking on the message board. Apparently the Nats don't even bother maintaining a message board... lol ouch

Haha. That's awesome and a little sad.

[Cephius]

Also lol

NY native Lannan excited about start | nationals.com: News

Check out the records. The Yankee record is a game over what it actually is. Conceding the game before it's started? lol

[Pringles]

Halladay is on the 15 day dl for pulled groin. That is a major blow for Toronto now.

[Viq]

Roughly half an hour until the party starts. Happy 500th consecutive sell-out, Red Sox.

[Headspace]

Micah Owings will rape you.

[Akiyama]

Fk yeah shitty Braves yeeeeah.

[Headspace]

You know how you know when a team sucks? When they let Micah Owings pitch 6 innings.

[Soa]

So can we petition MLB to let us play the rest of the season on the road please. And it would be nice if we stopped striking out 15 times a game too.