Looking for some insight on Thief.

**GaelWanderling** · 2009-02-14 12:47

So I've done a few searches but i must suck at searching, I'm looking for a comparison on daggers... so the targets I'm referring to are X's knife/BD vs lets say BD/Sirocco... I've been planning to do a small overhaul on my thief gear so any input on dagger combos is appreciated.

Thanks in advanced and sorry if such a topic already exists.

**Okan** · 2009-02-14 13:00

Thief's Knife and Assassin's Armlets, sit in the corner until the boss is at 5% and then get invited, hit the monster once to get the TH effect and then go sit in your corner again.

Other than that, you can also use the "What's Better?" Thread up above instead of creating a whole new thread to get a one post answer.

**GaelWanderling** · 2009-02-14 13:04

Thanks for your insightful revelation but I'm looking for more than a yes or no answer, if anyone else cares to share their opinion that is.

**Okan** · 2009-02-14 13:23

**Senji** · 2009-02-14 13:24

When you get your X's, you throw your Sirocco away

**GaelWanderling** · 2009-02-14 13:27

Originally Posted by Okan

I don't see it.

**Thorny** · 2009-02-14 13:33

His answer was to use that thread instead of making a new one.

**GaelWanderling** · 2009-02-14 13:39

Originally Posted by Thorny

His answer was to use that thread instead of making a new one.

I see, some of the answers in that thread seemed a bit vague i was hoping for some hard data maybe a parse log since my old clunker can't really run anything else than FF at the same time.

Shame, well then Mods feel free to remove this thread if deemed unnecessary.

**dawdr** · 2009-02-14 13:47

Originally Posted by Krystl

When you get your X's, you throw your Sirocco away

Actually, in what may be a bitter pill to swallow, it looks like everyone's been wrong for the past two years and that Blau Dolch/Sirocco Kukri is the best option, potentially even more so than Batardeau/Blau Dolch. I know I'm kinda kicking myself about it.

Zoot · 2009-02-14 15:06

I can't believe I'm reading all of this thread trying to figure out if I'm being wooshed.

holy shit it's not a joke

**ryskar** · 2009-02-14 16:38

Originally Posted by Krystl

When you get your X's, you throw your Sirocco away

You don't throw Sirocco away.

**Thorny** · 2009-02-14 17:05

Originally Posted by Some Allatard

Actually, in what may be a bitter pill to swallow, it looks like everyone's been wrong for the past two years and that Blau Dolch/Sirocco Kukri is the best option, potentially even more so than Batardeau/Blau Dolch. I know I'm kinda kicking myself about it.

Originally Posted by Second Paragraph of Some Allatard's Link

It adds 10% of your base damage when you crit by adding 0.3 to the pDIF,

.3 pDIF is 30% of your base damage and his poorly done math STILL favors X's.
Sorry, go away.

Auftragkiller · 2009-02-15 09:33

Originally Posted by Thorny

.3 pDIF is 30% of your base damage and his poorly done math STILL favors X's.
Sorry, go away.

Because pDIF for Criticals caps at 1.0 right? And if his math is so bad why don't you correct him over on the enemy side? Well, why would you, you didn't even read all of his post because he clearly stated that he used situations that would favor X's.

**noodles355** · 2009-02-15 11:37

Originally Posted by Thorny

Some Allatard's Link

Hurray for Alla bashing.

Why do BG people hate Alla anyway? If they're so lol-worthy, then why keep bringing it up? It's almost as if people are threatened or don't want to admit that some (even if it's only very few) people there do actually know what they're talking about. After all, some of the better posters post here anyway, see: VZX. Is he an allatard?

Just because you post on BG does not make you better than someone who posts on any other fansite. Afterall, there's a lot of retard here aswell, see: OP.

/tangent

**Aurara** · 2009-02-15 13:19

probably because 99.5% of alla is full of fucking idiots who dont know what the hell they are talking about.

**noodles355** · 2009-02-15 13:49

So then you get the .5% of people like VZX who do, who you can listen to, and the other 99.5% who make for a good laugh when you're bored. What's to hate?

**Thorny** · 2009-02-15 14:30

Originally Posted by Auftragkiller

Because pDIF for Criticals caps at 1.0 right? And if his math is so bad why don't you correct him over on the enemy side? Well, why would you, you didn't even read all of his post because he clearly stated that he used situations that would favor X's.

He was using BASE damage in his calculations, as in the damage multiplied by pdif to get ACTUAL damage.. .3 pdif is 30% of your BASE damage, not 30% of your ACTUAL damage. He added 10% of BASE damage, calling it an accurate representation of X's bonus so all of his numbers are worthless. I can't be assed making an allakhazam account to correct some idiot who thinks highly of themselves because they can almost do 8th grade algebra and understand damage formulas :/

Originally Posted by Alla Furfag

My sneak attack base damage is ~~~185-190, so x's would add 18-19 damage on a solo sneak attack. In dancing edge it applies to the first hit, and only the first since the rest cannot critical, and again it's similar in overall effect but adds the WSC and etc, so add about 25 base damage every weaponskill if stacked (my wsc adds approximately 55 base damage, but is stronger than most thieves)

Base damage - 185
Pdif - lets say 3.0 since he assumed 3.0 on other crits
actual damage before bonus - 555
increase pdif to 3.3 if that's how x's works - 610.5 damage, an increase of 55.5
add a straight 10% if that's how x's works - still 610.5 damage, an increase of 55.5

now let's assume pdif is only 2.0, which is about as low as it will get on a critical hit on anything thf should be meleeing
actual damage before bonus - 370
increase pdif to 2.3 if that's how x's works - 425.5 damage, an increase of 55.5
increase damage by 10% if that's how x's works - 407 damage, an increase of 37

His math is nowhere near accurate using either of the examples on wiki, he confused base damage and actual damage which made all of his results drawn from it entirely worthless as they're only giving X's 1/3 to 1/2 of the benefit it actually gives the player. That a good enough explanation?

**dawdr** · 2009-02-15 15:48

You know, I was a little irked at getting called an allatard, but I think it was worth it now.

**Cream Soda** · 2009-02-15 16:02

And Thorny does it, once again. Laughed my ass off at AllaFurFag btw

**Cream Soda** · 2009-02-15 19:12

I happen to have an account at alla, so I figured go there for you, lol. Here's her reply, Thorny

Originally Posted by Mistress Melphina

I see the link Veggeto. I'm not surprised they found something to criticize me on. Actually the point

increase pdif to 2.3 if that's how x's works - 425.5 damage, an increase of 55.5
increase damage by 10% if that's how x's works - 407 damage, an increase of 37

Is true. If normal pDIF is 1.0 then 2.0 would be a normal crit and using a base damage weapon of 40

40 x 2.0 == 80
40 x 2.3 == 92
44 x 2.0 == 88

so in the case of uncapped attack yeah, there's gonna be a bit of change. I would have had to consider pDIF after all, as is the case with everything. But it still doesn't change the overall trend by THAT much. In my OP I gave X's a 20% critical rate, which it usually isn't. I also accounted for a much weaker than average weaponskill build than most people should have. Considering the numbers deadgye gave in an actual scenario the trend still favors the blau/sirocco.

His math is nowhere near accurate using either of the examples on wiki, he confused base damage and actual damage which made all of his results drawn from it entirely worthless as they're only giving X's 1/3 to 1/2 of the benefit it actually gives the player. That a good enough explanation?

1/3 to 1/2 the benefit also isn't THAT big a change when you consider the volume of disparity in the calculated results. They knock my math because I'm posting on alla, but they obviously know nothing about me (or else they'd know I'm actually a woman, and wouldn't be addressing me as "he").

The point I wanted to make was that the belief that x's is the best dagger to pair with blau (barring relic) stems from the dagger update over 2 years ago, and I still haven't heard of any other people running actual numbers. If my math is really THAT far off and lolworthy then they're welcome to run the numbers themselves and see for themselves which combo comes out on top. I'm not out to start any cross forum wars by running my numbers, I'm just searching for the better scenarios because I love the job. I don't care about being called an allatard, nor having my math laughed at. It's still pretty close and the trend shows a significant difference in potential, enough that I'm pretty sure the verdict stands.

Again, I offer them to run the numbers themselves and give a better representation, but discrediting what I showed without knowing the first thing about me and assuming it's totally wrong because of the place it's posted on is foolish. I'm a very good thief, and I understand enough to make logical conclusions given the information at hand. If they can run math that shows contrary to my OP I'll accept that, I am human and capable of error after all. But if they tl;dr and just discard my input and throw it to the wayside without showing their own figures it doesn't help the discussion at hand, and barring some massive upset of what I calculated can be found I don't think the verdict will change at all.

[sm]Edited, Feb 15th 2009 6:52pm by Melphina[/sm]

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