W00t PLD merits thread

[Arthars]

Just mainly about group 2 merits, since group 1 really depends if you have an aegis or not.
atm, my PLD merit is 5 sentinel, 5 rampart, 1 chivalry, 4 guardian

My plan was going:
1 chivalry
5 iron will
4 guardian

we know that atonement is da shitz now. so chivalry is really for oshit situations and i guess lvl 1 is enough?

my question:
Is fealty a must have for a decent PLD?
if so, how should i adjust my merits?

[Ratatapa]

5 lv of chivalry is pretty much a must in my opinion.

fealty is pretty good i would go 5 chiv rest is pretty much what you want but ya need at least 1 in fealty

[Tsuko_Asura]

Considering Paladins' MP is(generally) a means of enmity and not survival, I don't see how one could justify Chivalry in any Atonement-friendly environment.

[Ferien]

When you need to use it, Chivalry is still a better use of your TP than Atonement is. Like Ratatapa just said, I'd go 5 Chiv, at least 1 Fealty, and then the rest based on what you prefer.

[Crizto]

5 Chivalry, 5 Fealty.
*Edit* Was talking about guardian not iron will ><.

[Tsuko_Asura]

When you need to use it, Chivalry is still a better use of your TP than Atonement is. Like Ratatapa just said, I'd go 5 Chiv, at least 1 Fealty, and then the rest based on what you prefer.

Chivalry certainly is nice, but lets not be so cut and dry about it. Sure, its a fairly large chunk of MP, but you're also sacrificing a massive pile of enmity if the situation allows for Atonement. In such a situation, a Paladin with a lackluster enmity setup would be giving up just under 4,000 CE and a tad over 11,000 VE for that, what, 500 MP?

5/5 Fealty
4/5 Guardian
1/5 Chivalry

IMO

[hagun]

Iron Will is garbage. Lrn2cast.

4 Chivalry
1 Fealty (This has really good applications in lots of different places)
5 Guardian

[Arthars]

fealty actually is way better than what is described on that POS sentence SE made up +_+

[Ferien]

Chivalry certainly is nice, but lets not be so cut and dry about it. Sure, its a fairly large chunk of MP, but you're also sacrificing a massive pile of enmity if the situation allows for Atonement. In such a situation, a Paladin with a lackluster enmity setup would be giving up just under 4,000 CE and a tad over 11,000 VE for that, what, 500 MP?

5/5 Fealty
4/5 Guardian
1/5 Chivalry

IMO

IMO, in a situation where you'd be using Atonement (read: near always), saving 300% for Chivalry is silly no matter what, but since you used it as your example, I'll go with it. Normally I'd pop a Chivalry at 100~150 just to give myself some breathing room, and that would free up the rest of the TP for Atonement.

500 MP gives you 5 Cure IVs and 2 Flashes, for ~1800 CE and ~9800 VE. 3 720-damage Atonements give you ~3000 CE and ~9000 VE (assuming a level 85 opponent). In the end it's 400 less total enmity for maybe a few missed attacks (saving some Enmity loss) and some breathing room for your healers. I prefer to handle my curing myself when I can, so the choice is easy.

That being said, it's once every 10 minutes. You can't spare the TP once every 10 minutes? You'll dish out enough Atonements over the course of the fight that skipping out on 1~3 every 10 minutes isn't going to hurt.

Edit: This is obviously ignoring the fact that the damage will shorten the fight. Atonement changed tanking strategy by making the "blow all your MP and pop Chivalry" strategy dumb, but if you're out of MP and need a hit, you'll miss it dearly if it's not up. If everything is absolutely peachy and you never need that MP, then by all means use Atonement instead, because a quicker killspeed will win out 90% of the time.

[Max™]

Solution: start out by spamming your MP in curing, curecheats and flashes while holding your early TP, since Atonement is blah til you get up the hate list, pop Chiv to re-fill your MP and start Atonespam.

How much would 300% TP in Atonements from 0 hate give, vs 500 Mp?

I'm leaning towards 4 Chiv, 1 Fealty, 5 Guardian, based on tips I've gotten from a Pld bud, as even though Chiv might not be as super awesome as spamming atonement, it is great for oh shit moments, and soloing anything.

[Ferien]

Solution: start out by spamming your MP in curing, curecheats and flashes while holding your early TP, since Atonement is blah til you get up the hate list, pop Chiv to re-fill your MP and start Atonespam.

How much would 300% TP in Atonements from 0 hate give, vs 500 Mp?

I'm leaning towards 4 Chiv, 1 Fealty, 5 Guardian, based on tips I've gotten from a Pld bud, as even though Chiv might not be as super awesome as spamming atonement, it is great for oh shit moments, and soloing anything.

If you're only using Chiv at the beginning of the fight, there's no reason to merit it down. In the 10~20 minutes after you use it the first time, you'll (if you don't fail) have enough hate to max it out.

[Crizto]

Is Guardian even worth it? I dunno how much Enmity is lost during the 30 seconds while Sentinel is up, but it can't be that much.

[Ophannus]

4 Chivalry
1 Fealty (This has really good applications in lots of different places)
5 Guardian

Yes.


Guardian is sex because your CE/VE levels will remain static(only 5% loss with 5/5) which is amazing because it solidifies your hate for 30 seconds. I don't see why Fealty is that great, it generates low hate and it's only useful if you fight a lot of AVs or Behemoths or do a lot of dynamis and die a lot from Mijins.

[Kurt Cobain]

fealty5 chiv1 guardian4, get ghorns

[Duber]

I went for Chivalry 5, IronWill 1, Fealty 1, Guardian 3. I merited ironwill when it came up for the sake of it but I don't really think is that good... probably not worth it.

I'd say: Chivalry 5, Fealty 1, Guardian 4 is best combo imo. But again, it all depends on what and how to play.

[Mayareira]

4 or 5 Chivalry, 1 Fealty, 4 or 5 Guardian depending on your playstyle.

[Pivotal]

5/5 or 4/5 chiv 1 fealt and 5/5 or 4/5 guard.

idc what anyone says about aton. its great really but at the same time there is to much to be gained from every 10 min being able to cycle ur tp to mp... and u dont need to pop it at 300 for chiv to be helpful, really depends on the situation. i might see it diff but when we use smaller groups and or are holding a hnm or w/e i like to know i have a back up for mp and a relatively fluent one. i think its personal on that note but guard is a must its hella tight on pld, the rest of it i think is more of perks and such.

[Tsuko_Asura]

IMO, in a situation where you'd be using Atonement (read: near always), saving 300% for Chivalry is silly no matter what, but since you used it as your example, I'll go with it. Normally I'd pop a Chivalry at 100~150 just to give myself some breathing room, and that would free up the rest of the TP for Atonement.

500 MP gives you 5 Cure IVs and 2 Flashes, for ~1800 CE and ~9800 VE. 3 720-damage Atonements give you ~3000 CE and ~9000 VE (assuming a level 85 opponent). In the end it's 400 less total enmity for maybe a few missed attacks (saving some Enmity loss) and some breathing room for your healers. I prefer to handle my curing myself when I can, so the choice is easy.

That being said, it's once every 10 minutes. You can't spare the TP once every 10 minutes? You'll dish out enough Atonements over the course of the fight that skipping out on 1~3 every 10 minutes isn't going to hurt.

Edit: This is obviously ignoring the fact that the damage will shorten the fight. Atonement changed tanking strategy by making the "blow all your MP and pop Chivalry" strategy dumb, but if you're out of MP and need a hit, you'll miss it dearly if it's not up. If everything is absolutely peachy and you never need that MP, then by all means use Atonement instead, because a quicker killspeed will win out 90% of the time.

The example really can't be applied that way. Sure, /over time/ that 500 MP will get you higher net enmity, but you can only convert MP to enmity so fast.

If you use your MP for self-preservation(I'm certainly not meaning to imply that's a bad thing), by all means, Chivalry is the way to go. If your MP is purely used for enmity, as is the case for most Paladins, its a soloist tool and an emergency button, and nothing more.

[Ferien]

The example really can't be applied that way. Sure, /over time/ that 500 MP will get you higher net enmity, but you can only convert MP to enmity so fast.

If you use your MP for self-preservation(I'm certainly not meaning to imply that's a bad thing), by all means, Chivalry is the way to go. If your MP is purely used for enmity, as is the case for most Paladins, its a soloist tool and an emergency button, and nothing more.

Eh...It'll take just as long to get 3 sets of 100 TP for the Atonements you were describing, too, so that's neither here nor there. I will agree with you though, that it's mostly an emergency button, and a pretty good one at that. IMO, it's better to have your emergency button at 10 minute recast than 20, and since this thread is about merits and not Atonement vs Chivalry, that's my stance on it. My first post said "when you need it," so obviously, if you don't need to pop Chivalry, that Atonement is going to do you better anyway.

I've never seen Fealty as more than a toy that might save you some heartache, whereas Chivalry will always refill my MP bar whenever I tell it to.

[Kurt Cobain]

unless you're fighting lambton worm, ouryu or vrtra (off the top of my head), if you have enough tp to fill your mp with chivalry, or your mp runs low enough to need chivalry, odds are you're doing it wrong