NFL Offseason transactions. Week l337

[Akiyama]

If the Dolphins can go 11-5 without a WR that I even know (not counting Ginn Jr.), then I think they can do pretty well without having to go out and get Boldin. I'd be pissed too if I were a Fins fan. No sense in blowing a shit ton of money on a guy when you should continue to build up your franchise. They weren't ready for last year I don't think, and still did amazing.

I think Calvin's got more raw talent, and a better skillset than Boldin. Boldin's also got a habit of getting hurt and yeah, I know.. freak injuries, but he seems to attract them. Do I think right now.. Calvin > Boldin? No. Do I think in a few years, Calvin will be better? Yeah, I do.

[Clyne]

The fact that you think Calvin is better than Boldin is a fucking laugh. Boldin has been, and put up the numbers, of a top 3 WR in the league ever since he won rookie of the year. The guy is the best route runner, 3rd down WR, possession WR, and 2pt conv. WR the league has seen since Sharpe on the Packers.

Fucking learn something people or at least pay attention.

Calling him a possession receiver undermines your whole argument imo. He does the things of your stereotypical possession receiver, but he also has a significantly higher avg. yards/catch than anything resembling a possession receiver. It was never quite in league with stretch-the-field #1 guys like Moss or Chad Johnson (prior to him playing like a decomposing corpse), but it was just barely below Fitz's career numbers. I posted the actual numbers in the old playoff thread I think. Miz can probably find it by searching for his signature on the forums.

That said, I think he does get a pass on being injury-prone (he is) because of his toughness; he has TWO other injuries that resulted in missed games in '08, outside of the broken face. I think last season will be the turning point of when that finally catches up with him. I really hope the Ravens make this trade happen in the next 7 days. Doesn't even have to be a 1st and a 3rd, but something close and the Cardinals should jump all over it.

Top 5:

1. Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald
3. Steve Smith
4. Reggie Wayne
5. Greg Jennings


If Fitz had Leinart throwing to him in '08, I don't think there would be any debate. A lot of the spectacular catches he made were because he outran a shitty Warner throw and had to come back for it...but the majority of them weren't. All I know, is I can't fuking wait to be at the JiffyPop Dome on October 11th.

Johnson probably is better than Jennings, but if you can't help your team win 1 fuking game, you don't belong on any Top 5 list. In their head-to-head games last year their stats were almost identical, bar the TD's. Plus, I think Jennings could have a huge year and start garnering some national attn, just like Larry did last year.

[Weltall]

If Fitz had Leinart throwing to him in '08, I don't think there would be any debate. A lot of the spectacular catches he made were because he outran a shitty Warner throw and had to come back for it...but the majority of them weren't. All I know, is I can't fuking wait to be at the JiffyPop Dome on October 11th.

Umm.....what? rofl

[Clyne]

Umm.....what? rofl

WWAMHD


The point is, it's hard at this relatively early stage in his career to say whether Fitzgerald's performance is mostly him, or if it's a product of his combination with Warner (to say nothing of having Boldin involved). If you've seen enough of their games, you know that they make each other look good. Prior to '08, Boldin always entered the season regarded as their #1. It wasn't until Leinart went down for the 2nd half of '07 and Warner & Fitzgerald were playing together every game, every down, that he really started to realize his potential. The similarity to Warner's impact on Holt & Bruce in St. Louis supports this even further.

Aside from Reggie Wayne, you don't really have that question with any other top receiver. Andre Johnson has played with mediocre qb's at best, David Carr at worst; Smith has Cajun Jake; and while Moss needs a top QB to be at his best, Culpepper's decline shows he elevates their game as much as they do his. If it was Leinart under center and Fitzgerald was performing the way he did last season, it would be no question he was the elite player. But as it stands, there's still a small question mark of how much of it is based on Warner; right now, I think it's just too soon in his career to tell. So you get the corolary of:

What Would Art Monk Have Done ?

Jerry Rice is the G.O.A.T., but he had 2 hall of famers throwing to him. If he and Art Monk had traded places, would they be regarded differently? I say yes; though Jerry might still come out on top, the memories of how good Monk was wouldn't have faded out as much as they have. If Andre Johnson and Fitzgerald swapped teams, would the lists everyone's posting still look the same? I really don't think so. I'm not even sure Fitzgerald would make the top 5 in that case. The fact that they go head to head in Phoenix this October is something I've been looking forward to since the middle of last year (University of Phoenix Stadium is jokingly called the JiffyPop because of how it looks, if that was confusing you). I hope he continues to perform as amazingly as he has, cause it's fuking amazing to see...but i'm not ready to punch his ticket to Canton just yet.

Sorry if the original post made no sense, was bored while helping a friend get mule to Jeuno and swapping back and forth between windows wasn't the best idea.

[Mizango]

Sorry, but I'd take Quan over Calvin every day of the week for infinity weeks, that's some serious business right there.

Calvin reminds a lot of people of Moss, he has the size, the speed and the hands. But Boldin is a monster and I believe if he were on another team where he was a 1st option he would be a total stud. He was a stud at FSU and when he caught on with the Cards.

People are simply paying attention to Arizona right now because of what they did this past season. He is as underrated a WR as Pennington is as QB. I love Calvin Johnson as well, but given one choice I'm taking Boldin 100% of the time.

[Mizango]

I just read that Fox is considering drafting Pat White to come in and learn from Jake......


I sincerely hope Pat White is gone before we draft. I do not want him in Carolina. Give me a white boy with a cannon arm, fuck these Vince Young scrambling wastes of talent. I mean we could have atleast pulled a Ricky Williams draft pick loaded package to the Bears for Orton! GAWD!

Yep found the story, I just saw them talking about it on the Panthers draft segment of the news...

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/pan...ry/672714.html

Hell no.

[Tyche]

You'd take a great 29 year old that argues with coaches on the sideline of a playoff game over a great 23 year old who's been in detroit and kept his mouth shut in that trainwreck environment? I wouldn't.

[tyven]

boldin 4 life

[Deejay]

You'd take a great 29 year old that argues with coaches on the sideline of a playoff game over a great 23 year old who's been in detroit and kept his mouth shut in that trainwreck environment? I wouldn't.

Kurt Warner got into an argument with that same Offensive Coordinator during that same playoff game, yet no one cares. hmmm

[Serif]

Kurt Warner's got into an argument with that same Offensive Coordinator during that same playoff game, yet no one cares. hmmm

It is because he's Republican.

[Weltall]

You'd take a great 29 year old that argues with coaches on the sideline of a playoff game over a great 23 year old who's been in detroit and kept his mouth shut in that trainwreck environment? I wouldn't.

Umm... again more retarded nonsense....

Give Calvin Johnson until he is 29 in Detroit and see if he is still quiet.

Boldin sat in Arizona (just as bad as Detroit until last season) for the last 6 years until he spoke up. If they would have paid him like he DESERVES he wouldn't have ever opened his mouth.

Also, about him "being a stud if he was the #1 WR" his numbers and performance is ALREADY incredible. He had the best WR rookie season ever take away Randy Moss.


I love how your arguments take X variable given A dimension and weight it against Y variable under A-N dimension and you actually think they are comparable in such a given situation......

I 100% guarantee you if Calvin Johnson is:

1. 29 Years old
2. On the Detroit Lions
3. Lions draft another WR, and he puts up incredibly similar numbers and gets paid 3.5X more than Calvin
4. Detroit continues to suck, minus one year, until he is 29 just as Arizona did for Boldin

= Calvin not keeping his mouth closed, and probably not even until he is 29. He will also likely do it publicly to the media. Boldin is going about this the right way: through his agent and owners. If his coach and front office want to talk about, that is their problem, not his.

[Tyche]

At least my arguments is built on facts and not on "out of my ass" hypotheticals. Boldin is 5 years older, has a history of injuries, has been seen pandering to media (he did this in interviews last season, not just "through his agent and owners"), and argues with coaches on the sideline of pivotal playoff games. You can say "give johnson til he's 29", "I 100% guarantee that if", "Calvin probably won't", and "He will likely..." yada yada ya, but that argument is about as empty as there is.

[Deejay]

"Arguing with coaches" is a shit talking point when that coach is known to be a douche and has argued with other players in the past (even with the starting QB during that same game, god damn). Boldin sacrifices more for his team in a week than most players do in their entire careers. To bring his work ethic or team mentality into question is just ridiculous.

And Calvin Johnson might be a freak, but he's still relatively unproven compared to Boldin. He's only had one great season so far, which Boldin outperformed during his rookie campaign. Right now, your infatuation with him is based off the ASSUMPTION that he will continue to improve. Quan is proof enough that you never know what can happen as far as injuries and personnel is concerned, which makes it silly to say that calvin is automatically "better" than Boldin because he's younger. Sure, he may be more valuable due to his age and contract situation, but that doesn't mean he would be picked first in a pickup game or mock draft.

[Serif]

Tyche when you get down here I am taking you over to Welt's so you two can finally fight to the death.

[Tyche]

As far as your Warner argument, I wouldn't trade anything for Warner either. And Johnson doesn't even have to improve that much. If he can continue at the pace he's at now, he'll be fine and I'll get at least 3 or more years out of him (and significantly less down time from injuries) than I would for Boldin. I'm not saying CJ is better right now, I'm saying I'd be willing to give more for CJ than Boldin given his age and demeanor. You guys interpret my argument as saying that Boldin is a bad guy or player. I think he's exceptional. It's just that I wouldn't give up what they are asking for an aging reciever who's had injury problems his entire career.Yeah, he's only 28, but Johnson is 23 and remarkable as well. If I'm building a team that is setting itself up for success and not just a quick run at the superbowl, I'm taking Johnson.

[Deejay]

Ah, I see your argument now. You'd rather take the young Kobe over the aging Shaquille O'neal. Nothing wrong with that.

But whoever said Greg Jennings is a top 5 WR needs to off himself.

[Weltall]

Tyche when you get down here I am taking you over to Welt's so you two can finally fight to the death.

Bring your SF4 stick

[Clyne]

Ah, I see your argument now. You'd rather take the young Kobe over the aging Shaquille O'neal. Nothing wrong with that.

But whoever said Greg Jennings is a top 5 WR needs to off himself.

Everyone's on Calvin Johnson's jock, and that's ok in your opinion, but I throw out the name of a guy who's stats are BETTER than Johnson's, on a team that throws the ball less because they're not playing from behind every game, and I'm the one who should kill himself?

Calvin Johnson:
2007 15 48 756 15.8 49 4 38
2008 16 78 1331 17.1 96 12 52

Greg Jennings
2007 13 53 920 17.4 82 12 37
2008 16 80 1292 16.2 63 9 55

Not to mention that I said Johnson probably is better overall, but I have a feeling Jennings could breakout this season. And you JUST said you can see someone taking young potential over established production in Johnson vs. Boldin. To use your analogy, just because a lot of people would take young Kobe (Johnson) over aging Shaq (Boldin), doesn't mean others might not take young Durant (Jennings) over both.

Seems like you're overlooking Jennings for whatever reason imo. He's easily a Top 10 receiver, and excluding guys 6-10 from a top 5 argument because you don't like him or whatever is silly.

A year ago Fitzgerald would have come in 4th or 5th AT BEST on almost everyone's list and Moss, Boldin, & Ocho Cinco would have probably been above him. A lot can change in a year. Maybe I'll be wrong on Jennings, but given his age and the way he plays, I'd take a chance on him over all those other receivers right now.

[tyven]

IDK ABOUT YOU GUYS BUT I TAKE LEBRON (devin thomas)

[Clyne]

"Arguing with coaches" is a shit talking point when that coach is known to be a douche

This is 100% true. In 2 years KC is going to regret hiring Haley over some of the other coaches who were out there. He pissed off at least 1 of his best players in the first week he got there (I think it was Will Shields), and I doubt Tony Gonzalez likes him, but he's keeping quiet for now hoping for the trade he wants.