ZULU Linkshell of Fenrir

[Acturus]

I'm not saying the exact thing will work for kings. But FFS, would it be that hard to, I don't know, do something like Nyzul except actually give their counterparts the same damned lot pools? Hell, do something like Einherjar -- have a instanced dungeon that the kings "rule" and, again, let them have the same lot pools. You can't tell me that concept isn't more fun than standing around camping for hours.

You have to wonder why SE sees the Zilart kings, sees the KS99 replicas, and doesn't put two and two together.

You don't have to change anything except what could be in the loot pools.

[Araelus]

You have to wonder why SE sees the Zilart kings, sees the KS99 replicas, and doesn't put two and two together.

You don't have to change anything except what could be in the loot pools.

Pff, we all underestimate Square and that solution would make too much sense. One emergency update, problem fixed. (Actually, can't they change drop tables at any time?)

[Darkslitter]

If they actually did this, then you would have people bringing alts and more alts to camps to increase their chances. The main problem would be fixed (no need for bots) but a new one would arise. The perfect solution would be instances.

I personally don't see a problem with the group having the most people having the best chance at getting claim. The amount of people necessary to ensure the claim is way more than any ls can have even if there's only a group of like 10 people against them.

[didgist]

The incentive to bot stems from the need to be a complete asshole and monopolize everything, something that is perpetuated constantly throughout forums and blogs based on the game.

Instances are harder and a more rewarding style of gameplay? Then why play Final Fantasy? I think being able to cock block groups of people due to easily circumventing game mechanics is what keeps people coming back even after multiple permanent bans, I mean 13 bucks a month + bot fees for a false sense of domination is a pretty damn good deal.

Maat offers you a Ridill when you complete Beyond the Sun, if you don't see the humor in that you really are a lost cause. Fucking SE, trusting people to be honest. What the fuck is wrong with them.


Hope your BLU spells are coming along well DL!


By the way Tup asked me to join Zulu a week ago. Fucking owned lol

[Araelus]

The incentive to bot stems from the need to be a complete asshole and monopolize everything, something that is perpetuated constantly throughout forums and blogs based on the game.

Instances are harder and a more rewarding style of gameplay? Then why play Final Fantasy? I think being able to cock block groups of people due to easily circumventing game mechanics is what keeps people coming back even after multiple permanent bans, I mean 13 bucks a month + bot fees for a false sense of domination is a pretty damn good deal.

If this is the case, then Square would have to change the basic nature of some people, because some people are just going to be jerks even if there is punishment. For that matter, some people are going to be violent criminals even if they die in the process.

In terms of dominating at the expense of others being "perpetuated constantly throughout forums and blogs based on the game" either this is just the same sarcasm as

Fucking SE, trusting people to be honest. What the fuck is wrong with them.

or else you need to take a long hard look at blogs like
Rukenshin (updates... irregularly)
Kanican (LM-17'd because he knew too much)
You are not your fucking O's Kote. ("GTFO my lawn" style posts that are very informative)

and in terms of "forums", well, if you really think BG perpetuates a bad attitude instead of helping the community, read Standard instead of Advanced (nevermind all the worthwhile stuff in advanced, huh).

Or did you mean Alla/KI where it's scary for an entirely different reason? Or... what forums, exactly? I'm thinking the whole post was tongue-in-cheek.

[ringthree]

If this is the case, then Square would have to change the basic nature of some people, because some people are just going to be jerks even if there is punishment. For that matter, some people are going to be violent criminals even if they die in the process.

In terms of dominating at the expense of others being "perpetuated constantly throughout forums and blogs based on the game" either this is just the same sarcasm as

or else you need to take a long hard look at blogs like
Rukenshin (updates... irregularly)
Kanican (LM-17'd because he knew too much)
You are not your fucking O's Kote. ("GTFO my lawn" style posts that are very informative)

and in terms of "forums", well, if you really think BG perpetuates a bad attitude instead of helping the community, read Standard instead of Advanced (nevermind all the worthwhile stuff in advanced, huh).

Or did you mean Alla/KI where it's scary for an entirely different reason? Or... what forums, exactly? I'm thinking the whole post was tongue-in-cheek.

Ruke is playing WoW. He will be back eventually, everyone does.

Kaeko is banninated.

I'm still here, waving my cane.

[Devek]

and in terms of "forums", well, if you really think BG perpetuates a bad attitude instead of helping the community, read Standard instead of Advanced (nevermind all the worthwhile stuff in advanced, huh).

Or did you mean Alla/KI where it's scary for an entirely different reason? Or... what forums, exactly? I'm thinking the whole post was tongue-in-cheek.

The only thing Alla perpetuates is its own group-think.. BG and KI won't censor you for having an unpopular opinion. Really sad when you consider that anything that would be right, would be unpopular with those morons.

[fndragon]

As far as proof goes, don't we know of only one dominating LS turning to RMT? (Zulu)

I'm sure other linkshells who can afford iiFuzz's bot are turning to RMT to afford it. As the old saying goes, follow the money. If Herald's Gaiters are being sold to people on a regular basis for 15+ million gil, where does that gil most likely come from? And what does a linkshell do with all that gil, when they have an outstanding debt to recoup for an expensive bot?

tl;dr: MogBonanza obviously.

[Devek]

Interesting.

So if someone buys $3000 worth of gil to get a relic, how did they afford it? Selling Herald's Gaiters?

[Corrderio]

I think fndragon does have a point. I'm pretty sure ppl who bought the bot would RMT at least some of their gil to make up for buying it.

[ringthree]

I think fndragon does have a point. I'm pretty sure ppl who bought the bot would RMT at least some of their gil to make up for buying it.

No way! No one would stoop that low.

[Devek]

Or they could use the gil to buy a relic..

[didgist]

No way! No one would stoop that low.

We don't appreciate sarcasm here sir!

[ringthree]

We don't appreciate sarcasm here sir!

Sarcasm and hyperbole are all I got, sonny.

[Bingbong]

We don't appreciate sarcasm here sir!

But awesome sigs are serious business. Did you see them?

[didgist]

I was being sarcastic

To be honest when I first started reading through BG I got a kick out of Ringthree's Sig.


To stay on topic: I don't think it's BG's fault that people tend to bash people who complain about botting (or i'm missing the point and it's bashing people for complaining in general), however you don't even have to leave this thread to see that people believe it's Square Enix's fault that people are greedy. The 3 zilart HNMs drop luxury items, which are in no way needed to complete any part of this game.

Yeah, yeah, you can buy relics with money made from HNM, but you can also slowly level a craft by farming and BC'ing the materials and then use it at 100+??? to fund a relic as well. I know that Fenrir has a relic Great Axe funded entirely through fishing, and a relic Great Katana that was funded off of HQ'd dusk hands from Byakko Hides. HNM camping is just not necessary, it's there for all the players who absolutely need to have better gear than everyone else right the fuck now before anyone else can get it.

I don't get how people expect SE to waste their time appeasing these players by "fixing" the HNM camps greedy people qq over when they could just add new content. They are rewarding the patient, mature players. They are also giving me 3+ 180 minute windows a day in which I can merit without divine manifest (/nod to Isladur on this one) jackasses rivaling me for something as petty as a merit camp. I say the game is just fine, except for that FUCKING XsKNIFE GOD DAMN FUCK YOU SE FUCK SHIT. Ok, sorry.

While were at it whatever put us here is a dick for making elephants tusks out of ivory. Wait, I get it! God works for Square Enix! Holy fuck it all makes sense now!

[Devek]

The 3 zilart HNMs drop luxury items, which are in no way needed to complete any part of this game.

You ever done much ground? Most people there already have the items they need. Doing it does not benefit me or my character in any way(I got my blackbelt in 2004), yet I do it anyway.

[Araelus]

Ruke is playing WoW. He will be back eventually, everyone does.

Kaeko is banninated.

I'm still here, waving my cane.

If you remember from FanFest, I have a cane too. We can wave them together! (or something like that, I need to collaborate with Tuufless on some guide stuff)

The only thing Alla perpetuates is its own group-think.. BG and KI won't censor you for having an unpopular opinion. Really sad when you consider that anything that would be right, would be unpopular with those morons.

I'm not sure how to correctly read your response to my response to what might be sarcasm, oh wait:

I was being sarcastic

http://bp2.blogger.com/_XgZVVzrYN_w/...ooby_doo_2.jpg

To stay on topic: I don't think it's BG's fault that people tend to bash people who complain about botting (or i'm missing the point and it's bashing people for complaining in general), however you don't even have to leave this thread to see that people believe it's Square Enix's fault that people are greedy. The 3 zilart HNMs drop luxury items, which are in no way needed to complete any part of this game.

I think everyone here is bashing the botters, where do you see the meta of bashing the complainers? This thread started as drama and it might end in drama but on the way there we get to talk seriously about why botting occurs, and since it is a bad occurrence, what might be done not just to halt it temporarily but to remove the root causes. That seems constructive to me.

Along that line of thought, kings drop items that are more powerful than other items which cannot be equipped at the same time. More powerful items increase our characters' statistics, which allow for easier completion of other game goals. A luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, or in game terms the more a character's net worth increases the more they will want proportionately priced items.

Demand for luxury items in and of itself is neither good nor bad in free market terms. Square could do something stupid like capping everyone at 10million net worth, in which case we'd all either stop playing when we hit the cap or keep playing and, well, probably start messing around with the system until the banhammer came down like the righteous anger of a drunk Richard Cantillon.

Thankfully this is not the case, and a player can amass character-net-worth to their heart's content. Some players, unfortunately, want to get ahead not through dutiful work and perseverance but through cheating the market. In the real world it's tough to hack into the DJIA or something but in FFXI obviously people can cheat in a blatant way that affects everyone in the game whether or not those people are involved in the event that is being botted.

I don't get how people expect SE to waste their time appeasing these players by "fixing" the HNM camps greedy people qq over when they could just add new content. They are rewarding the patient, mature players. They are also giving me 3+ 180 minute windows a day in which I can merit without divine manifest (/nod to Isladur on this one) jackasses rivaling me for something as petty as a merit camp. I say the game is just fine, except for that FUCKING XsKNIFE GOD DAMN FUCK YOU SE FUCK SHIT. Ok, sorry.

Right, because "patient, mature players" never go to camp any of the three Zilart kings, huh? Changing the nature of kings so that it cannot be exploited, or that cheating is much more difficult, helps everyone who plays the game. While you might argue there is a positive externality at work (less competition for merit camps) I might argue there are multiple negative externalities (encouragement of new players reaching endgame to bot, the sale of rare/ex gear for gil and RMT, the shifts in money supply RMT causes resulting in inflation and deflation depending on Square's reactions and bannings, and so on).

Which is more efficient, leaving kings the way it is or changing it to not only eliminate kings botting but discourage the people who were so inclined to bot in the first place? This line of argument is not positing that Square is encouraging people to bot, merely that the environment Square provides and moderates does not discourage them from doing so in an adequate fashion and thus there are problems.

[Kenji]

The only thing Alla perpetuates is its own group-think.. BG and KI won't censor you for having an unpopular opinion. Really sad when you consider that anything that would be right, would be unpopular with those morons.

Yeah, BG will just mock you and troll you if you think differently. But they won't censor you, so clearly they are better. And that's all that matters, right?

I'm really sorry if people actually believe this. Pretty much, I've learned that all forums are the same. The only forums that are different, are ones that heavily moderate, and honestly try to do the right thing. And those are far and few between. The last such forums (and pretty much the only ones) I've seen, have been slashdot and elitistjerks from wow. The former has fairly nice moderation system, that allows you to hide all the troll and flame posts, and only read the higher quality discussion posts. The latter has moderators that heavily moderate all sections of their forums, until they look better than BG standard.

I'd suggest everyone spend some time there, then come back. It's an eye-opening experience.

[Khalil]

I personally don't see a problem with the group having the most people having the best chance at getting claim. The amount of people necessary to ensure the claim is way more than any ls can have even if there's only a group of like 10 people against them.

You probably will when a particular LS brings about 30+ to a camp and lags everyone out in even seeing the damn mob pop. Keep in mind, if what Devek's plan works, bots will still greatly help you in actually targeting and casting on it just be on that randomized list. So, the more people you have and the more bots will obviously give you more a chance than anyone else.