Glanzfaust Preliminary Testing

[Xanthe]

And personally, for str waist slot, I'd do Warwolf > black belt due to the fact that its also a vit mod and also that the dex5 provides 2-3 acc.

Good point. I'm used to shooting for a higher fSTR cap with polearm so really STR and VIT would be essentially equal once that cap is reached.

[TummieGaruda]

Maybe I'm alone in this, but comparing weapons on birds is the most shitty thing you can do, especially consindering Glanzfaust's need for tp. It would turn into a battle of the dot in the end and not so much about dot+ws, which Glanz will most likely lose eventually if its tp gets eaten even if only on occasion.

That is a good point.
Looking at the parse though there are a lot of factors that may have skewed the results slightly - 5 less mobs with destroyers, possible Mamool Ja Infiltrator with Utsu Ni up during Asuran... It still is pretty close, but if 5 more mobs were done so that the number of mobs were equal, Destroyers would be on top.

Also, Alma if Acc isn't bad, why not swap in a Warwolf Belt instead of Life Belt due to the str/vit mods for Ascetics?

[Motenten]

pchan's math is a bit wrong.


For Destroyers:

I'm going to use 17.5% KA rate (though that's not the error pchan made)
Total +DA is 15%

Chance of no KA per round: 82.5%
Chance of no DA per hit: 85%

Chance of no extra attack per round: 82.5% * 85% * 85% = 59.6%
Observed rounds with no extra attack: 55.7%

Fairly close.


For Glanzfaust:

Chance of no KA per round: 82.5%
Chance of no DA per hit: 85%

Chance of no extra attack per round, excluding tier 3: 59.6%

Observed round with no extra attack: 40.1%

Estimated rate of /no/ extra attacks in tier 3 aftermath: 67.3%

Estimated rate of extra attacks in tier 3 aftermath: 32.7% (per round)


If the tier 3 aftermath is restricted to just the first hand's punch, then it must also compete with the DA proc rate (unless it stacks).

If the aftermath proc rate competes with DA the same was as joyeuse et al then the aftermath rate needs to be calculated after the DA procs.

Chance of no extra attacks per round considering just KA and 1 DA punch (the off hand): 74.4%

Observed round with no extra attack: 40.1%

Non-proc rate: 53.9%

Proc rate of DA of main hand + tier 3: 46.1%


Previously observed kick + tier 3 rate: 63.9%

Using 17.5% as the KA rate, remaining tier 3 proc rate: 46.4%


Probable conclusion: tier 3 aftermath proc rate is approximately 45% and does not stack with DA in normal attack mode. Behaviour while using Footwork undetermined, as Footwork may translate +DA to +KA, which the aftermath effect does appear to stack with.

[Almalexia]

Status Timer?

Oh... this is perfect for AM management. Thank you!

I agree, Warwolf on Ascetic's would be better. Good thing we're getting more inventory space in April.

As for the discrepancy in attack rounds, it's definitely due to the pets. I parsed Glanzfaust first, so it saw 2 extra wyverns and 2 BST pets. Destroyers did not.

Finally, what was the determined damage % improvement of Spharai over Destroyers? I can't find it.

[Tadghostal]

Finally, what was the determined damage % improvement of Spharai over Destroyers? I can't find it.

About 10%.

One thing you didn't specify in the parse: Were you using Footwork 100% (or at all, even) with Glanzfaust, or just straight hand-to-hand?

[Zilong]

Straight h2h, I'm guessing footwork testing comes later since comparing h2h destroyer vs footwork glanz would have too much variable to really draw a decent conclusion, so he went for the baseline first to analyze just how much better is glanz vs destroyer in normal situations.

That and he did say that it'd be easier to just SAM/WAR Hagun if that's all glanzfausts are capable of.

[ringthree]

Not too bad Alma, but why do you have higher acc rate with glanz? I guess 2-3% isnt really much, but with a 2-3% total damage increase from destroyers, I have to wonder if it wasnt attributed to just having better hit rate during that time.

Does seem to have a bit of potential to keep ya from quiting the game though, did you get to comfirm the focus/dodge effects?

Augmented Focus?

[FailureMidgard]

Not quite. I need some plugin to time my aftermath duration so I can get a feel for it.

There was one time in the entire hour I managed to gain 300TP right as AM3 wore. Almost every other attempt was ~80TP away from 300TP when AM3 wore. One time I was 240TP off, but it was okay because I had Subway for lunch.
---
To clarify for Veg:

Two consecutive hours of typical merit situation with the same people at the same place (I'm sure you're familiar with the Nyzul Mamool camp above the Greater Colibri.) I started the parse when I engaged, went about meriting for 60 minutes, disengaged, swapped weapons and started a new parse when I re-engaged for the same amount of time. The timer ran even between battles, so running around the field counts.

118 mobs (15 wyverns, 2 raptors) with Glanzfaust, 113 mobs (13 wyverns, no raptors) with Destroyers. Both periods ended at a Mamool Ja Pikeman.

Accounting for this, I suppose Glanzfaust would technically do less damage than the parse numbers claim... ('AC

Eh, I disagree with the conclusion you came to based on # of mobs.

If you assume that people do more damage, you will kill more mobs in a given time. If you are indeed doing 5% more damage, you would expect to see 3-7% more mobs killed (assuming they are there to be pulled). The fact that you killed 2 more raptors, 1 more Mamool, (and maybe 2 more Wyverns, they have so little HP) actually supports the fact you were doing more damage, it doesn't necessarily throw doubt on it.

As for the attack rounds things, no offense to Alma, but how did you calculate/count your attack rounds? There is definite error if you just add up your swings/attack rounds. Also, when you get a killing blow on the first swing with h2h, don't you immediately get a new attack round if you auto-target to a new mob?

[Tadghostal]

Eh, I disagree with the conclusion you came to based on # of mobs.

If you assume that people do more damage, you will kill more mobs in a given time. If you are indeed doing 5% more damage, you would expect to see 3-7% more mobs killed (assuming they are there to be pulled). The fact that you killed 2 more raptors, 1 more Mamool, (and maybe 2 more Wyverns, they have so little HP) actually supports the fact you were doing more damage, it doesn't necessarily throw doubt on it.

That camp typically runs out of mobs very easily even with a less than optimal set-up. A few weeks back I xp'd there with mnk/nin, sam/war, bst/nin, brd x2 and a rdm, and we constantly had to wait for repops.

I'm sure any situation with a mnk/war would see a shortage of mobs there.

[FailureMidgard]

That camp typically runs out of mobs very easily even with a less than optimal set-up. A few weeks back I xp'd there with mnk/nin, sam/war, bst/nin, brd x2 and a rdm, and we constantly had to wait for repops.

I'm sure any situation with a mnk/war would see a shortage of mobs there.

I'm well aware how the camp works. I'm also aware of the # of mobs they killed, and the # at that camp. They look short a few to be killing them as they repop. Also, the camp does not run out of mobs "Very easily" with a "less than optimal set-up". Sorry, but if you're running it out of mobs, you have solid DD at least (you basically have better DD than 95%+ of the people that seek for merits). I'm not saying it's hard to run it out of mobs, but you don't walk in and they fall over.
And I'm not sure how to respond to your last statement. No offense, but adding /war to a monk doesn't suddenly add so much dmg that it's irrelevant what the rest of your party is.

[pchan]

As for the attack rounds things, no offense to Alma, but how did you calculate/count your attack rounds? There is definite error if you just add up your swings/attack rounds. Also, when you get a killing blow on the first swing with h2h, don't you immediately get a new attack round if you auto-target to a new mob?

I think he used a parser, K parser it seems.

[Motenten]

As for the attack rounds things, no offense to Alma, but how did you calculate/count your attack rounds? There is definite error if you just add up your swings/attack rounds. Also, when you get a killing blow on the first swing with h2h, don't you immediately get a new attack round if you auto-target to a new mob?

From the format, I'd guess she was using KParser's multi-attack tab view of the data. Said plugin is not perfect, but generally does reasonably well. (Yes, it's on my list of things to go back and improve on.)

And I'm not sure how to respond to your last statement. No offense, but adding /war to a monk doesn't suddenly add so much dmg that it's irrelevant what the rest of your party is.

He's implying that, aside from the increased damage of going /war instead of /nin (about 30% more, estimated), you need a solid backline to keep that mnk alive, which tends to indicate a better than average party.

[Tadghostal]

And I'm not sure how to respond to your last statement. No offense, but adding /war to a monk doesn't suddenly add so much dmg that it's irrelevant what the rest of your party is.

Quite the opposite. If a mnk/war is there using Pizza +1 and isn't repeatedly dying, it means he's got two other cock-diesel DDs to share hate* and a backline that knows what it's doing. If that's the case - and I'm going to assume that it is - then those mobs basically explode when you look at them.

I really find it hard to believe there wasn't some downtime at the end of the pop cycle. Maybe not so much that they lost the chain, but probably enough to screw with the parse some.

* The other option is that he had two pld/nin in the other DD spots for flash, extra cure 4s and Cover in order to let him go to town and rely on a fuckton of healing. If that's the case, then you have my apology in advance.

[FailureMidgard]

I think he used a parser, K parser it seems.

I've used that, and when you have double march, I've never once seen it near accurate. It gets hasted attacks confused with DAs/etc...and this is on a Sam...on a Mnk, I can't imagine it being more accurate.

As for the mnk/war assumption, sorry, but that's dumb. I merit as sam/war when I'm on melee, and voke every mob...I tank well over 70% of the time, I can easily see a mnk/war surviving, regardless of dmg output (though that being said, I see myself dying a bit if DD isn't very good).

And again, my assumptions are based on # of mobs killed...it doesn't add up to meet the spawn times for 1hr.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Oh... this is perfect for AM management. Thank you!

I agree, Warwolf on Ascetic's would be better. Good thing we're getting more inventory space in April.

As for the discrepancy in attack rounds, it's definitely due to the pets. I parsed Glanzfaust first, so it saw 2 extra wyverns and 2 BST pets. Destroyers did not.

Finally, what was the determined damage % improvement of Spharai over Destroyers? I can't find it.

Well, one issue is that it's a lot easier to test Spharai vs Destroyers increase because Spharai and Destroyers are played the same way as each other. Glanzfaust requires a significant play style change that I'm sure you haven't perfected yet. It's kind of like how when Apoc first came out, the DRKs who were using it weren't doing awesome damage, but as play style adjusted and it got better understood, the damage increased. I expect as you optimize your style and your Ascetic's Fury damage, your damage will more significantly raise.

Also, the conclusion that makes sense to me as to why Ascetic's seemed to be doing so great is that misses aren't counted towards the average. Including those should get a better comparison. Also, though TP isn't a HUGE deal for it, it does matter. I was trying to find out whether Ascetic's might simply be better than Asuran in these situations, which would be rather interesting, I think.

[Tadghostal]

As for the mnk/war assumption, sorry, but that's dumb. I merit as sam/war when I'm on melee, and voke every mob...I tank well over 70% of the time, I can easily see a mnk/war surviving, regardless of dmg output (though that being said, I see myself dying a bit if DD isn't very good).

Way to concede the point.

[FailureMidgard]

Way to concede the point.

Reading comprehension? My point was, as a solo sam/war, I generally voke every mob, and it takes BAD DD (as in, cant keep chain) for me to die, and other melee don't tank more than 10% of the time each.

With 2 vokers, it becomes completely irrelevant and a mnk/war should rarely if ever have hate unless he is purposefully trying to.

I really don't see how you can truly believe that because a mnk/war didn't die, the entire party had to be amazing, especially when the kill #s support the fact that the party wasn't keeping it clear. It is very easy, and not a stretch in the least to have a decent party that can keep chain, with 1-2 vokers that have hate a majority of the time.

[Tadghostal]

Reading comprehension? My point was, as a solo sam/war, I generally voke every mob, and it takes BAD DD (as in, cant keep chain) for me to die, and other melee don't tank more than 10% of the time each.

With 2 vokers, it becomes completely irrelevant and a mnk/war should rarely if ever have hate unless he is purposefully trying to.

I really don't see how you can truly believe that because a mnk/war didn't die, the entire party had to be amazing, especially when the kill #s support the fact that the party wasn't keeping it clear. It is very easy, and not a stretch in the least to have a decent party that can keep chain, with 1-2 vokers that have hate a majority of the time.

Hey, look at you pissing all over the thread with your inability to understand basic statements or read above a 2nd grade level.

Here's my original quote:

That camp typically runs out of mobs very easily even with a less than optimal set-up.

the entire party had to be amazing =/= a less than optimal set-up

If you suck as hard in game as you do on these boards, I don't doubt that you never run out of mobs there. I also doubt that you have any idea of how quickly things can go bad when you have a job that sports 40 defense and no shadows tanking mobs that can weaponskill for 1500+.

[FailureMidgard]

Hey, look at you pissing all over the thread with your inability to understand basic statements or read above a 2nd grade level.

Here's my original quote:

the entire party had to be amazing =/= a less than optimal set-up

If you suck as hard in game as you do on these boards, I don't doubt that you never run out of mobs there. I also doubt that you have any idea of how quickly things can go bad when you have a job that sports 40 defense and no shadows tanking mobs that can weaponskill for 1500+.

Yes, resort to personal attacks when you can't argue with the facts. Perfect.

My parties don't run out of mobs there 'cause well, I rarely go there. When I do, yes, we run out of mobs. I also spend 70%+ of the time tanking if I am on sam, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone other than me die there when I am on sam. A mnk doesn't need shadows to survive if you have 1-2 vokers in the party. I'm not sure why you ever mentioned paladins, I'm 100% sure that a paladin cannot hold hate over a sam/war that wants to tank on merit level mobs.

And again, they killed ~100 mobs in an hour, with 11? there on a 6? minute repop. That is roughly 10 mobs short of running out of mobs. And furthermore, clearly with the destroyers on, they didn't kill as many mobs as they could have, as they killed more in the following hour. Seriously, look at the facts and stop trying to insult me.

[Nightmarelord]

@ pld in meripo.

@ pld holding hate in a meripo.

Q_Q @ PLD IN A MERIPO!