Glanzfaust Preliminary Testing

[Ratatapa]

hmm k, but i heard +50% double attack makes you do more damage..

Double attack is only the aftermath from 300TP iirc who the fuck keep TP till 300TP

so Vegetto is right Spharai > Mythic

[Cream Soda]

Double attack is only the aftermath from 300TP iirc who the fuck keep TP till 300TP

so Vegetto is right Spharai > Mythic

As already been said, this isn't a surprise. I was never expecting it to be any better. Was surprised that they chose those particular atributes to agument focus and dodge though, considering those are a ghetto copycat of spharai.

[Malacite]

Spharai > Mythic in merit PT only really.

Anything you're going to zerg you'll have plenty of time to build TP before attacking w/e NM you're going to be beating on. There still hasn't been any confirmation on the exact OAT % has there? I've heard 50 and 70.

Either way even just 50% is incredibly fucking broken once you activate Hundred Fists, and the crit bonus is obviously intentional since Ascetic's Fury is a crit-based WS.

[Ratatapa]

Faith with Stones would do around same average then Mythic on hundredfist.

pretty sure of it

[pchan]

Faith with Stones would do around same average then Mythic on hundredfist.

pretty sure of it

9 dmg weapon is awesome

[Ratatapa]

The point i was trying to say is that go pay 30mill+ if you want for a Hundred Fist weapon

That'S all

btw who told you to post outside the Salvage drop thread?

[Thorny]

9 dmg weapon is awesome

While glanzfaust would outdo faiths for hundred fists by simple virtue of being able to activate a 300 tp aftermath before using it, your statement is kind of stupid considering faiths are better than destroyers. DMG:42 vs DMG:51 is not as big of a difference as you make it out to be... witty one liners to avoid the actual math are dumb, and the math for melee damage is known so:

Assumptions made for calculation:
Full usukane MNK has STR+26(16 from usu, 7 BB, 3 foragers), 31 if they use rajas. This amounts to a fSTR of at least 5 on most reasonable targets. Assuming /WAR and brutal, as this benefits destroyers more than faiths due to double attack not compounding with faiths(though it does stack). The MNK using destroyers uses black tathlum instead of virtue stones, has 90% accuracy, and 700 attack. The target is roughly merit mob level and defense/VIT.

DMG:51 Delay:348 - fSTR bumps it to DMG:56 delay:348

DMG:42 Delay:413 1.5x hits - fSTR bumps it to DMG:48 delay:413 1.5x hits

2.3 attacks @ 58 base damage = 128.8 * pdif actual damage
128.8 / 348 = 0.37011 base damage/delay

3.3 attacks @ 48 base damage = 158.4 * pdif actual damage
158.4 / 413 = 0.38354 base damage/delay, 43.48% additional TP

Regarding Accuracy:

4.5(accuracy increase) / 2 (50% of your accuracy translates to hitrate increase) = 5 (hitrate increase)
2.25(hitrate increase) / 90(hitrate beforehand) = .025 or 2.5% (increase in hits landed and weaponskills over time)

Regarding Attack:

700(attack) / 350(mob's defense) = 2.0(ratio of attack/mobs def)
2.0(ratio) - 0.05(level correction) * 7(difference in levels)
simplify to 2.0 - .35 = 1.65(level corrected ratio, or cratio)
4 attack(1.5 from str, 1 from attack difference itself) / 350(mobs defense) = 0.0114(ratio)
.0114(ratio increase from attack) / 1.65(cratio) = 0.0069 or 0.69% (increase in damage per hit)

Regarding critical hit rate:

1.65 cratio, crit = +1 pdif and pdif averages out to be even to cratio
1 / 1.65 = 0.6060 or a 60.6% increase in damage per hit(using the cratio with tathlum to compound in this step)
.06 * .6060 = 0.03636 or a 3.6% increase in melee damage

Overall:
.036 + 0.0069 + .025 = 6.79% increase in damage during TP phase from destroyers crit rate as well as black tathlum

0.38354 / 0.37011 = 1.0363, 3.63% increase in damage during TP phase from faith's extra hits after taking away the penalty from it's base dmg difference

While using faiths, you gain 43.48% more TP than destroyers, but what does that translate to in actual damage gained? You lose base damage on each of those weaponskills.

8 hits, 1.0 ftp, about 9 base damage from STR mod, 6 from VIT, 5 minimum from fSTR
DMG:42 + 9 + 6 + 5 = 62
DMG:51 + 9 + 6 + 5 = 71
71 / 62 = 14.52% more damage/weaponskill with destroyers
43.48 - 14.52 = 28.96% more overall WS damage with faiths
subtract 2.5% to compensate for the hitrate tathlum provides

Simplify:
3.16% more damage during TP phase with destroyers
26.46% more damage during WS phase with faiths
If you really want, I can run numbers for average asuran and average damage during TP phase in this scenario, but your WS damage only has to be 10% of your total damage for faiths to beat destroyers. If you weaken the TP gear by taking away usukane/etc, faiths win by even more.

[phrost]

Wow.

[Thorny]

Wow.

It's just a pet peeve of mine, everyone likes to think faiths/fort axe are junk because of the base damage when in reality they're the best weapons sans relic/mythic. I actually made a template for each stat comparison, doesn't really take very long to do the math out.

[Maxxthepenguin]

It's just a pet peeve of mine, everyone likes to think faiths/fort axe are junk because of the base damage when in reality they're the best weapons sans relic/mythic. I actually made a template for each stat comparison, doesn't really take very long to do the math out.

Well, I think a lot of people know, they just don't go tell everyone because a good, hasted fort axe/faith bag/love halb build eats virtue stones really really fast and may not be worth it.

What I'm amazed about is that you care so much after you quit.

[Thorny]

Well, I think a lot of people know, they just don't go tell everyone because a good, hasted fort axe/faith bag/love halb build eats virtue stones really really fast and may not be worth it.

What I'm amazed about is that you care so much after you quit.

It's the middle of the afternoon and I'm bored as hell, 5 min of math isn't that big a deal. It's not like I'm the only person who lurks here after they quit either >_>

[Aesctaa]

never paid much attention to mythics, probably a stupid question, but does using standard WSs like asuran fists etc with a mythic aftermath on cancel it or something?

Why are people complaining about saving to 300TP, you only need to do that once every few mins right before your aftermath wears no? And since you will be using the mythic WS at 300 you could make a plugin to tell you how long the aftermath has left, so you know when to start storing.

[Kipling]

Stop arguing with Pchan, we've already established he's an idiot.

[Zim]

I'd like to macro a Glanzfaust in and switch to Spharai, please.

[Tsuko_Asura]

It's the middle of the afternoon and I'm bored as hell, 5 min of math isn't that big a deal. It's not like I'm the only person who lurks here after they quit either >_>

You quit? Q_Q

You're not allowed to stop posting, who else will remind me of how much I suck?

[Thorny]

You quit? Q_Q

You're not allowed to stop posting, who else will remind me of how much I suck?

I quit in october when my character got stolen, but I'll be posting until I find someplace else to occupy my spare time and entertain me during any comp related courses I take S:

Also, <3.

[FailureMidgard]

I quit in october when my character got stolen, but I'll be posting until I find someplace else to occupy my spare time and entertain me during any comp related courses I take S:

Also, <3.

So you've lost 2 characters? ;p

Just go make a 3rd already.

[Thorny]

more than 2
swoosh(THF68 NIN75): B& in the first of the mass bans mid-2006 for soloing boroka, heliodromos, and every capped ENM dozens of times in 2005 with POS(irony is that i stopped a good 4 months before the bans, but i deserved it anyway so meh.. having the gil for speed belt on first job was hot and i had fun with it)
thorny(NIN75 THF75 RNG75 DRK75 MNK75 PLD65 RDM70): B& for shouting a link to that wyred.nu feiwong page in whitegate when he was ranting about something or other jan 2008
kazerin(BRD75 [RDM75]): mule i had at the same time as thorny, B& for same credit card as thorny
garr(THF75 NIN75 [BRD75] [SMN75] [WHM75] [BLM68] [RDM75]): stolen october 2008
myame([BLM75] BRD75 COR75 WHM60s): mule i had at the same time as garrion, gave away when garrion was stolen but could get it back if i cared enough to play again
all remora

brackets are jobs i didn't level myself(though I got every decent piece of gear on any of the characters and most of them are repeats of jobs I did level at some point), i'm a terrible person, i know :3

[Neosutra]

Why do you people turn on stupid when these get completed? SE clearly said they will not be designed to surpass or even stand up to a relic's power, you people need to stop getting so excited for something overpowered when it clearly won't happen..they said it yet AGAIN recently they're more designed to augment jobs rather than showcase pure power.

I don't know anything about monk, but judging from an earlier response:



Guessing every mnk is better off getting relic than mythic even though it's been said time and time again by SE they won't compare to each other.

Ya, they were supposed to be job enhancing more than damaging..

However when the relic better enhances the job AND does better damage, at half the work, it is fail. Stop deluding the point.

[Tradition]

thornizzle, you should restart on phoenix. ;o