Glanzfaust Preliminary Testing

[Nattack]

Because I would want my 10 counter to only be active during dodge right, because having it active all the time would suck?

Yes, it would suck harder than a newborn piglet

[Xno Kappa]

Actually, I hear that there's this amazing thing called an Opo-opo necklace, and paired with sleeping potions, can actually get up to 300% TP without fighting.

The best part about it is that any job can use the two.

Opo-opo necklace....I mean come on...really?

[Ratatapa]

<Party> Rdy?

<Mythic MNK> Wait i need to get my opo for TP

<party> ...

[Tadghostal]

But add the assumed 5% crit 2/3 of the time, counter & atack bonus. At the very least this counters lol-6% critical hits.

Go. Back. To. Alla.

[pchan]

What troubles me is the implicit assumptions that A) mnks will be zerging with max haste and B) mnks will be zerging HNMs with capped accuracy.

25% haste from gear is the least I expect for someone upgrading this. I think it should be an assupmtion generally that when you upgrade a mythic you have almost the best gear if not the best.

Again, lower haste and lower accuracy hurt Glanz MORE than other weapons.
Amnesia, unintentional kiting, holding tp for skillchains (lol), petrify, paralysis, blindness, slow affect Glanz more than other weapons because those conditions hurt what Glanz excels at disporportionately to other weapons.

This applies to all weapons, and no more to a mythic. And amnesia doesn't hurt you that much since the weapon with base delay/dmg is already the second best.

You can look at it this way : it will be very powerful as long you keep fighting for 5+ minutes, and if not it still better than a non-relic. Salvage/Einherjar/Limbus/Dynamis/merits are well-suited to this kind of stuff. If you fight for a decent period of time you easily get 20-30% damage increase from destro/hades.

Were are you getting 100tp in 4 attack rounds pchan? Or am I misunderstanding you?

4 rounds of a mnk with the correct merits and aftermath3 means 8 base punchs, but 4 more will come from double attack, and 1 from either kick attack or double attack from brutal. That's 13*6.4=83.2 TP assuming 19 store-tp (raja, brutal, full usu). since asuran fists would return 18-19 tps, that's 4 rounds, so 4*delay. With haste and march that's 13 seconds rougly.

[Cream Soda]

THE FURY! Does not suck

THE FUCKING FURY!!!
http://i43.tinypic.com/2n876yq.png

[Motenten]

Speculation on worst-case targets while using Ascetic's with Glanzfaust
--------------------------------------------------------------------

If Ascetic's does 60% of Asuran, and Asuran weaponskill damage comprises 30% of your total damage, using Ascetic's exclusively (at 100 TP) would result in a drop in total damage of 12%.

To make up 12% total damage from melee damage would require an increase in melee damage of 17.14%. If two or more weaponskills can be done within the duration of the Aftermath (ie: Ascetic's + Asuran), then the gain needed is half or less, putting the required increase in melee damage at 9% or less.


Math assumptions in spoiler:

Spoiler: show

If the acc bonus of first tier Aftermath is similar to the att bonus (20-60, varying with TP), and weaponskills are used at an average of 110 TP, it should given an average of +24 acc.

+24 acc is +12% hit rate. If base hit rate was 70%, +12% hit rate (to 82%) would be +17.14%. If base hit rate was 80%, the increase would be +15%.


For use on merit level mobs, will consider the typical greater colibri sample.

Capped acc would be 398 and 407 total acc.

Assuming base gear to include: Turban, Byakko's Haidate, Usukane Sune-Ate and Black Belt for 24% haste, that would also provide +14 acc.


Base 299 skill (assume Faith Torque) would provide 289 acc. Base 71 dex would provide 35 acc. The haste gear would take it to 338 total acc.

Shura Togi/Enkidu's Harness, Hollow Earring, Black Tathlum and 2 Snipers/Woodsman rings (or Rajas + Toreadors) would take it to 366 acc. Usukane body would put it at 373 acc.

Aftermath would increase that total to 390-396.

If you're targetting 400 acc (a little waste acc on the lower birds, but still close to cap on the higher birds), Focus will put you over that target by 20-26 acc.

Swap out acc rings for str rings (either 2x flame or rajas + flame); that drops 7-10 acc. Swap out Hollow for a Merman's; -4 acc.

Black Tathlum is pretty much best att option for ammo slot.
Usukane Sune-Ate are still pretty much best foot option even without the acc (7 att + 7 store TP vs 1% haste).
Stay with Togi/Harness instead of Usukane body.

Target is -20 acc. Have removed 11-14. Can't do much more.


Total acc without Focus: 390 (avg hit rate: 91%/86.5% == 88.75%)
Total acc with Focus and gear swapped out: (avg hit rate: 95%/95% == 95%)


Str without Focus: +15 (w/Rajas + Togi)
Str with Focus: +20

Att without Focus (gear): +75 + 7 from Str = +82
Att with Focus (gear): 81 + 10 from Str = +91

Total att without Focus (hume with max str merits): 417
Total att with Focus: 447

Att w/Kabobs + Minuet 4 without Focus: 542
Att w/Kabobs + Minuet 4 with Focus (assuming +5% stacks with Minuet): 575

fStr (hume) without Focus: +6
fStr (hume) with Focus: +7

Crit rate without Focus: 10%
Crit rate with Focus: 15%


100 melee rounds
= 210 punches + 12.5 kicks (no KA merits; evaluating Focus merits later)

40% with Focus:
84 punches + 5 kicks
* 94.75% acc:
79.59 punches + 4.7375 kicks

Normal (85%)
67.6515 punches + 4.026875 kicks
Crit (15%)
11.9385 punches + 0.710625 kicks



60% without Focus:
126 punches + 7.5 kicks
* 87.25% acc:
109.935 punches + 6.54375 kicks

Normal (90%)
98.9415 punches + 5.889375 kicks
Crit (10%)
10.9935 punches + 0.654375 kicks



Given target mobs def (with Dia II) of 290 and 295:
pDiff (81) without Focus: 1.569
pDiff (82) without Focus: 1.487
Avg pDiff without Focus: 1.528

pDiff (81) with Focus: 1.683
pDiff (82) with Focus: 1.599
Avg pDiff with Focus: 1.641


Base damage without Focus: 61 punch / 41 kick
Base damage with Focus: 62 punch / 42 kick

(Calculations done in separate spreadsheet)
Total melee damage in 100 rounds (using +acc Aftermath): 20767.9

Total melee damage without the Aftermath boost: 18744.6

Gain in melee damage from +acc of Aftermath: 10.8%

Note that a bit was lost from going over the acc cap with Focus, and that the relatively low max acc needed (target: greater colibri) means that the acc boost of Aftermath has less overall value.

Add just 20 evasion to the mob and the net gain in melee damage from using the +acc Aftermath is 16.4%.

Conclusion: Using even just the first tier Aftermath with Glanzfaust is probably generally better than just spamming Asuran.


Same config using Destroyers: 17988.8

Gain in damage going from Destroyers to non-Aftermath Glanzfaust: 4.2%

How much longer it takes to complete 100 rounds using Glanzfaust compared to Destroyers: 13.8%

Second Conclusion: You'll still be struggling to do the same total damage as Destroyers.

[Almalexia]

Glanzfaust

(target: greater colibri)

anguishedjew.jpg

[Kipling]

Noone cares about Ascetic's fury, you don't need to have a mythic to know it's shit. It's known since september. Everyone has it, except those that fail at claimbing Nyzul. If you go for aftermath 3 you do like 1 ascetic's fury followed by 6 asuran fists. Whenever I play monk I do more than 7 weapon skill.

Ability to "claimb" nyzul doesn't mean you won't fail at typing though apparently. Or do you just suck at spelling?

[Neosutra]

Speculation on worst-case targets while using Ascetic's with Glanzfaust
--------------------------------------------------------------------

If Ascetic's does 60% of Asuran, and Asuran weaponskill damage comprises 30% of your total damage, using Ascetic's exclusively (at 100 TP) would result in a drop in total damage of 12%.

To make up 12% total damage from melee damage would require an increase in melee damage of 17.14%. If two or more weaponskills can be done within the duration of the Aftermath (ie: Ascetic's + Asuran), then the gain needed is half or less, putting the required increase in melee damage at 9% or less.


Math assumptions in spoiler:

Spoiler: show

If the acc bonus of first tier Aftermath is similar to the att bonus (20-60, varying with TP), and weaponskills are used at an average of 110 TP, it should given an average of +24 acc.

+24 acc is +12% hit rate. If base hit rate was 70%, +12% hit rate (to 82%) would be +17.14%. If base hit rate was 80%, the increase would be +15%.


For use on merit level mobs, will consider the typical greater colibri sample.

Capped acc would be 398 and 407 total acc.

Assuming base gear to include: Turban, Byakko's Haidate, Usukane Sune-Ate and Black Belt for 24% haste, that would also provide +14 acc.


Base 299 skill (assume Faith Torque) would provide 289 acc. Base 71 dex would provide 35 acc. The haste gear would take it to 338 total acc.

Shura Togi/Enkidu's Harness, Hollow Earring, Black Tathlum and 2 Snipers/Woodsman rings (or Rajas + Toreadors) would take it to 366 acc. Usukane body would put it at 373 acc.

Aftermath would increase that total to 390-396.

If you're targetting 400 acc (a little waste acc on the lower birds, but still close to cap on the higher birds), Focus will put you over that target by 20-26 acc.

Swap out acc rings for str rings (either 2x flame or rajas + flame); that drops 7-10 acc. Swap out Hollow for a Merman's; -4 acc.

Black Tathlum is pretty much best att option for ammo slot.
Usukane Sune-Ate are still pretty much best foot option even without the acc (7 att + 7 store TP vs 1% haste).
Stay with Togi/Harness instead of Usukane body.

Target is -20 acc. Have removed 11-14. Can't do much more.


Total acc without Focus: 390 (avg hit rate: 91%/86.5% == 88.75%)
Total acc with Focus and gear swapped out: (avg hit rate: 95%/95% == 95%)


Str without Focus: +15 (w/Rajas + Togi)
Str with Focus: +20

Att without Focus (gear): +75 + 7 from Str = +82
Att with Focus (gear): 81 + 10 from Str = +91

Total att without Focus (hume with max str merits): 417
Total att with Focus: 447

Att w/Kabobs + Minuet 4 without Focus: 542
Att w/Kabobs + Minuet 4 with Focus (assuming +5% stacks with Minuet): 575

fStr (hume) without Focus: +6
fStr (hume) with Focus: +7

Crit rate without Focus: 10%
Crit rate with Focus: 15%


100 melee rounds
= 210 punches + 12.5 kicks (no KA merits; evaluating Focus merits later)

40% with Focus:
84 punches + 5 kicks
* 94.75% acc:
79.59 punches + 4.7375 kicks

Normal (85%)
67.6515 punches + 4.026875 kicks
Crit (15%)
11.9385 punches + 0.710625 kicks



60% without Focus:
126 punches + 7.5 kicks
* 87.25% acc:
109.935 punches + 6.54375 kicks

Normal (90%)
98.9415 punches + 5.889375 kicks
Crit (10%)
10.9935 punches + 0.654375 kicks



Given target mobs def (with Dia II) of 290 and 295:
pDiff (81) without Focus: 1.569
pDiff (82) without Focus: 1.487
Avg pDiff without Focus: 1.528

pDiff (81) with Focus: 1.683
pDiff (82) with Focus: 1.599
Avg pDiff with Focus: 1.641


Base damage without Focus: 61 punch / 41 kick
Base damage with Focus: 62 punch / 42 kick

(Calculations done in separate spreadsheet)
Total melee damage in 100 rounds (using +acc Aftermath): 20767.9

Total melee damage without the Aftermath boost: 18744.6

Gain in melee damage from +acc of Aftermath: 10.8%

Note that a bit was lost from going over the acc cap with Focus, and that the relatively low max acc needed (target: greater colibri) means that the acc boost of Aftermath has less overall value.

Add just 20 evasion to the mob and the net gain in melee damage from using the +acc Aftermath is 16.4%.

Conclusion: Using even just the first tier Aftermath with Glanzfaust is probably generally better than just spamming Asuran.


Same config using Destroyers: 17988.8

Gain in damage going from Destroyers to non-Aftermath Glanzfaust: 4.2%

How much longer it takes to complete 100 rounds using Glanzfaust compared to Destroyers: 13.8%

Second Conclusion: You'll still be struggling to do the same total damage as Destroyers.

You arent getting 10% boost in melee DoT from 10 acc on the tier1 WS..

[Motenten]

@Almalexia: I did say worst case analysis

@Neosutra: I assumed 20 acc, not 10, to match the 20-60 att boost in the second tier as reported by Jackyl. I haven't seen anything about a solid +acc number on the first tier Aftermath yet.

[TummieGaruda]

THE FURY! Does not suck

THE FUCKING FURY!!!
http://i43.tinypic.com/2n876yq.png

I might as well post mine lol

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...ruda/fury2.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...ruda/fury3.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...aruda/Fury.jpg <--- Dynamis: Rare Double Attack x2 + Double Critical but still LOL as I took a beating after the WS.

Plus turning stuff into the color of charcoal is a funny thing to see (Glitch from gear swapping during the WS animation)

[miokomioko]

As determined long ago, the WS generally sucks against anything you can reliably land all 8 Asuran hits on unless you land a double-attack + crit (see above).

[TummieGaruda]

As determined long ago, the WS generally sucks against anything you can reliably land all 8 Asuran hits on unless you land a double-attack + crit (see above).

High defense mobs as well. Ascetics usually tends to have a consistent range in terms of damage done when none of the hits critical or double attack. For me, once Asuran begins to drop below that specific threshold due to high eva or high def mobs, I switch up to Ascetics or DK/HF.

This is what I've noticed on Campaign Mobs, Dynamis Mobs, and G. Colibri (I don't have any data on larger prey as I don't do HNM's due to my schedule)

Normal Ascetics range from 450-550
Single Crit ~ 700-850ish
Double Crit ~1000
Double Crit + Double Attack 1200-1300
Double Crit + Double Attackx2 1300+ (Rare, but it does happen 12% TP return with destroyers last screen shot I posted from Dynamis for 1309 DMG)

Just stating the case that Ascetics does have its moments, but if it's possible to land hits on Asuran and the mob doesn't have super high Def, then yeah Asuran > Ascetics by far.

[Neosutra]

Correct my math, as I dont remember the exact value of my hits, but Im pretty sure I only get 10-11 TP per attack round with full usu (not counting DA/Kick). Thats more than 4 attack rounds (even with a double attacking weapon) to get to 100TP.

Realistically, in an ideal situation, I could see you getting 3, MAYBE 4 Asurans off and storing TP back to 300 if you have max haste, max accuracy, and arent stopping to cast shadows or running to engage the next mob.

So counting the initial Ascetics, then say 3-4 Asurans. Thats 4-5 WSs in 120 seconds, with one of them being mediocre in damage. So at best thats a WS every 20 seconds (which you can already do in meripo with good WSs), and at worse thats a WS every 30 seconds, which is crap, especially when 1/4th of your WSs are mediocre.

[miokomioko]

So, in a perfect situation where you never ever pull hate, thus never ever have to spend one second casting utsusemi, and you have the perfect puller sleeping every mob directly in your melee-range... it will still be an "ok" weapon. However, in any real situation you're not going to make utterly perfect use of the lv.3 aftermath duration and then Glanzfaust falls back into just being great for "zerg." Pass...

I'd also like to see solid parse results of this and/or any other mythic weapons creating this alleged "+5% critical hit rate" upon use of berserk/focus/etc. which still sounds like horseshit to me.

[ringthree]

Keep in mind this information is being provided by Poof.

[pchan]

Correct my math, as I dont remember the exact value of my hits, but Im pretty sure I only get 10-11 TP per attack round with full usu (not counting DA/Kick). Thats more than 4 attack rounds (even with a double attacking weapon) to get to 100TP.

Assuming destroyers :

4.9 base, 5.8 TP with store tp19.
Asuran fists returns : 18.2

So after asuran fists you need : 15 hits to reach 100+ TPs with destroyers, but 13 with glanzfaust. If you double attack and kick attack, this done with 4 rounds, which will gives only 8 normal punchs, but 4 from double attack from aftermath, and 1 from kick attack or brutal. (with brutal and full KA merits, you get 1 extra attack per 4 rounds).

Realistically, in an ideal situation, I could see you getting 3, MAYBE 4 Asurans off and storing TP back to 300 if you have max haste, max accuracy, and arent stopping to cast shadows or running to engage the next mob.

So counting the initial Ascetics, then say 3-4 Asurans. Thats 4-5 WSs in 120 seconds, with one of them being mediocre in damage. So at best thats a WS every 20 seconds (which you can already do in meripo with good WSs), and at worse thats a WS every 30 seconds, which is crap, especially when 1/4th of your WSs are mediocre.

This is not specific to mythics, casting utsusemi, tanking etc, generally lowers you damage output. At least monks have couterstance.

Can't say much more than this until the mythic people decided to release info ...like exact the effect of tp on accuracy/attack bonus, exact double attack rate, does double attack affect footwork? etc..

If the double attack is not what we think it is, this weapon is Shenlong -1.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Keep in mind this information is being provided by Poof.

The ironic cloak that covers the entire thread.

[Gtype954]

No, you don't. Only place Glanzfaust is obviously amazing is when you have 300% tp, and if you're saving 300% tp in Assault, Einherjar, Salvage, Nyzul Isle, ZNMs or any of the HNMs in the TOAU universe, your linkshell leader needs to punch you in the ovaries. Hell, you need to not even be there as monk on half those fights.

Glanz wins if you're about to zerg Bahamut or Kirin since you should be able to get 300% tp before those fights with no problem. And there's very little chance of the random in-game situations that can absolutely nerf the weapon occurring.

HOWEVER...

You'd have to be retarded to lose those fights in the first place.

No you don't have to beat every endgame event to get the weapon?
You need to beat Odin which means beat einherjar.
You need Floor 100 runic key which means beat Nyzul.
You need to beat all Salvage bosses which means beat Salvage.
You need 3 Tier IV trigs, which means beat almost damn near every ZNM except for the Warden.
You need Captain TWICE which means beat every assault twice.

There is no way around those.

If you got the weapon, You damn near already beat the entire TOAU expansion, which technically means you can beat the entire expansion without a mythic weapon lol, which is kinda weird, since we want better gear to win these endgame events in the first place.

I still prefer the dynamis weapons as they can be kept full-time excluding the Club and Staff, and excaliber now. And possibly the Gun since people might use Culverin +1 and Heavy/Cannon Shell. But I'm not a RNG, so not sure about gun. every other dynamis weapon can be full-time worn with no problems whatsoever.
I just wish the dynamis relics in this game were the best ever and you never had to switch or use any other weapons again.
That means Cure potency15% on the dyna club and +10 HMP on both club and staff plus the staff could have been all HQ staves rolled into one with higher potency then HQ stave.
That would hopefully mean, nomore using light staff and dark staff.
Either way, these mythic weapons put an end to just always fulltiming you relic weapon on all situations.

Still think Mandau Owns the mythic dagger, I would like to see a Youtube video of Merc kris and Mythic dagger being used at the same time with lvl 3 aftermath up just for cool entertainment though.