Faith and Reason.

[Seraph]

As far as when you hear things are all "a part of God's plan", I think that can be a gross simplification.

I think people just use it as an excuse for either fluke bad events, or poor choices. "God helps those who help themselves." :-þ

[Seraph]

Or the stronger possibility: There is no God waiting to pounce on you and condemn you to eternal torture for having the audacity to make the wrong choice, so just live your life going down the path of least resistance, as is the evolutionary imperative anyway.

I know, I know, there is no spoon. You established that way back a few pages ago, and haven't contributed anything since. I'd call you close minded, but we are trying to keep this thread clean~

[Khalil]

Or the stronger possibility: There is no God waiting to pounce on you and condemn you to eternal torture for having the audacity to make the wrong choice, so just live your life going down the path of least resistance, as is the evolutionary imperative anyway.

Or just believe in whatever you want?

The predestination is a hot topic in Islam as well. Lots of scholars don't argue it but some question why mankind was created if they're predestined to live the rest of their afterlife in Hell. Then again, I haven't really been that religious for awhile.

[Stiker]

Or the stronger possibility: There is no God waiting to pounce on you and condemn you to eternal torture for having the audacity to make the wrong choice, so just live your life going down the path of least resistance, as is the evolutionary imperative anyway.

You know, someone really needs to explain to me how being atheist is the path of least resistance. I would wager that for the most part, I'm trying to be as good of a person as every other atheist here and trying to have a happy life. The only difference between the atheists here and me is that I happen to believe in God and go to church.

I don't live my life thinking "oh no, if I do this I might go to hell." I know I sin and don't always do the right things, I'm human just like everyone else. I don't consistently worry about how God will judge me or other people. I do the best I can in my life and I'm quite happy with that. I can't see cutting God/religion out of my life making it any better to be honest.

[Kuya]

I can't seem to find the post, but, was one of the arguments made here that a belief in a god is wrong because it is not logical?

[Tristam]

You know, someone really needs to explain to me how being atheist is the path of least resistance. I would wager that for the most part, I'm trying to be as good of a person as every other atheist here and trying to have a happy life. The only difference between the atheists here and me is that I happen to believe in God and go to church.

I don't live my life thinking "oh no, if I do this I might go to hell." I know I sin and don't always do the right things, I'm human just like everyone else. I don't consistently worry about how God will judge me or other people. I do the best I can in my life and I'm quite happy with that. I can't see cutting God/religion out of my life making it any better to be honest.

It's nice that you have a good personal experience with religion, but nothing about living a good life is exclusive to religion. You can be an atheist and be equally as happy without professing allegiance to a god.

Now if you look at the effects of faith on society, you must take a step back and regard all religions for what they are, equally objectively, without your personal experience serving as a representative for the overall effect of religion. They are control structures with no self-correcting mechanism, advertising truths which at best are not actually knowable (the one conclusion I think we can all draw from this thread), and at worst detrimental.

[Mizango]

where is the "judge lest ye be judged", or the sermon on the mount when it comes to condemning others for their beliefs or genetics or whatever... so yeah.

Exactly the point I brought up in November when Proposition 8 was being voted on in California, to which I got absolutely 0 replies from the people here that obviously opposed it. I guess the concept of live and let live it is too far gone and far too complex for some people of faith to grasp.

-Governor Mike Huckabee: "The Constitution needs to be amended to meet God's standards before it leads to polygamy and bestiality. I think the radical view is to say that we’re going to change the definition of marriage so that it can mean two men, two women, a man and three women, a man and a child, a man and animal."

What exactly is "God's standard"? And why does the rest of the world seemingly being forced to assimilate to fit "God's standard"? We have no concrete proof that this magical person(s) even exists, yet he has a "standard" that fits today's society? (i.e. no more pillaging, raping or senseless slaughtering in the lords name via stoning, beheading and from being burned alive)

Why does his standards not consist of loving everyone equally and allowing people to live their lives as they see fit? For being perfect he and his believers sure does spend a lot of time and energy smiting faggots, niggers and kikes. I find it funny how offended a lot of people get when the simple job of living ones life treads on your belief system and you make it your lifes work to make them conform to this unknown, undefined "standard".

This is mainly pointed towards Jones as he seems to be the only one that throws the "because God can" card without hesitance.

[Dimmauk]

Exactly the point I brought up in November when Proposition 8 was being voted on in California, to which I got absolutely 0 replies from the people here that obviously opposed it. I guess the concept of live and let live it is too far gone and far too complex for some people of faith to grasp.

-Governor Mike Huckabee: "The Constitution needs to be amended to meet God's standards before it leads to polygamy and bestiality. I think the radical view is to say that we’re going to change the definition of marriage so that it can mean two men, two women, a man and three women, a man and a child, a man and animal."

What exactly is "God's standard"? And why does the rest of the world seemingly being forced to assimilate to fit "God's standard"? We have no concrete proof that this magical person(s) even exists, yet he has a "standard" that fits today's society? (i.e. no more pillaging, raping or senseless slaughtering in the lords name via stoning, beheading and from being burned alive)

Why does his standards not consist of loving everyone equally and allowing people to live their lives as they see fit? For being perfect he and his believers sure does spend a lot of time and energy smiting faggots, niggers and kikes. I find it funny how offended a lot of people get when the simple job of living ones life treads on your belief system and you make it your lifes work to make them conform to this unknown, undefined "standard".

This is mainly pointed towards Jones as he seems to be the only one that throws the "because God can" card without hesitance.

Cause we need to give Extremist Terrorists more reason to attack the U.S.

[Stiker]

-Governor Mike Huckabee: "The Constitution needs to be amended to meet God's standards before it leads to polygamy and bestiality. I think the radical view is to say that we’re going to change the definition of marriage so that it can mean two men, two women, a man and three women, a man and a child, a man and animal."

Wow was not aware of that quote lol. Hyperbole much?

That is more of the fear-mongering that gives the rest of us such a bad name. Try to address an issue by compounding it with crap that doesn't even come into the discussion. "Oh you think it is going to stop at gay marriage? We will be marrying animals. ANIMALS. Then the terrorists win and God smites us!" /facepalm x 1000

[Alleya]

Wow was not aware of that quote lol. Hyperbole much?

That is more of the fear-mongering that gives the rest of us such a bad name. Try to address an issue by compounding it with crap that doesn't even come into the discussion. "Oh you think it is going to stop at gay marriage? We will be marrying animals. ANIMALS. Then the terrorists win and God smites us!" /facepalm x 1000

He also suggested that we put homosexuals into concentration camps as a solution to AIDS.

Because, you know...he's such a good Christian and all that.

You know, he actually came to my school and gave a Q&A and a lecture about public health care. I got to ask him how he reconciled giving a lecture about public health when his solution to AIDS was to murder homosexuals, but he ignored me.

[Mizango]

Yeah man, one lady was on TV saying how if Prop. 8 passes it only "Reinforces the fact that gay people being allowing to wed and have open relationships shows our kids that having sex with animals and children is ok to do in society"

I wish I could find that bitch. Anyone remember her? She was speaking on behalf of the Christian rights groups protesting outside the courthouse? She was on EVERY channel the next day. I'll try to youtube it and post. She was also saying how being gay is a choice that person made and should be "punished accordingly" looool.

Right.

[Maxxthepenguin]

He also suggested that we put homosexuals into concentration camps as a solution to AIDS.

Because, you know...he's such a good Christian and all that.

You know, he actually came to my school and gave a Q&A and a lecture about public health care. I got to ask him how he reconciled giving a lecture about public health when his solution to AIDS was to murder homosexuals, but he ignored me.

Trolling (former) presidential candidates?

I do love you Alleya.

[Mizango]

He also suggested that we put homosexuals into concentration camps as a solution to AIDS.

Because, you know...he's such a good Christian and all that.

Alleya wins. I was trying to find that quote earlier, you rock. Mind you, this is the guy that was in the running for President of the United States. From Pastor to President!

[Stiker]

Alleya wins. I was trying to find that quote earlier, you rock. Mind you, this is the guy that was in the running for President of the United States. From Pastor to President!

And thankfully a primary loser.

[Khalil]

Alleya wins. I was trying to find that quote earlier, you rock. Mind you, this is the guy that was in the running for President of the United States. From Pastor to President!

That guy has a radical ideas, obviously you shouldn't listen to him.

[Stiker]

That guy has a radical ideas, obviously you shouldn't listen to him.

Problem is people do and honestly believe that their faith justifies it. Then again these are also (usually) the same folks that don't see the difference between radical Islamic terrorists and a devout, peaceful Muslim. I'm not sure if that is irony or just freakin' pathetic.

I've said it many times before, it is nuts like that whom give other Christians such a wonderful reputation.

[Meian]

Problem is people do and honestly believe that their faith justifies it. Then again these are also (usually) the same folks that don't see the difference between radical Islamic terrorists and a devout, peaceful Muslim. I'm not sure if that is irony or just freakin' pathetic.

I've said it many times before, it is nuts like that whom give other Christians such a wonderful reputation.

Not to mention that people tend to believe that the small % of people like those somehow speak for the entire Christian community as a whole; I think thats more pathetic.

[Maxxthepenguin]

That guy has a radical ideas, obviously you shouldn't listen to him.

You...didn't...just

God damn it. It's people like him that create the fucking people who HATE ALL RELIGION AND THINK THEY ARE UNFIT FOR ROLE MODELS LIKE SCIENTISTS or whatever the fucking argument is.

[Alleya]

You...didn't...just

God damn it. It's people like him that create the fucking people who HATE ALL RELIGION AND THINK THEY ARE UNFIT FOR ROLE MODELS LIKE SCIENTISTS or whatever the fucking argument is.

Maybe some of them. I think Mizango's and Neo's stories are more indicative of the norm, though.

[Tristam]

Not to mention that people tend to believe that the small % of people like those somehow speak for the entire Christian community as a whole; I think thats more pathetic.

Instead of trying to justify it as a small percentage (when it absolutely is not, this man was ELECTED as the GOVERNOR of a state for a decade!), perhaps you should convince church leaders to actively speak out against such bullshit? They are consistently silent.