Faith and Reason.

[Cow_k]

So once again, here is the door Cow, get the fuck out if you dont like it. It isnt my problem you get your arguments torn apart every time you post.

And why do you keep coming in here and shitting on a discussion you don't like? No one is forcing you to keep reading. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

These make me laugh. After how many people shitted on that 'Please pray for' thread and couldn't walk out the door even though it had shit all to do with them, yet the mention of how this 'discussion' isn't so much a discussion rather than a baited trap for atheists to pat themselves on the back gets people grumpy. For an actual discussion you need open minded people. This is like trying to watch MSNBC have an argument with Fox News. We've got the most biased people here trying to prove the unprovable and making claims that make no sense. The world is the way it is and until someone figures out how to get rid of greed and pride, wars and violence will never stop.

Though again, I really don't know why I'm here considering talking religion here is like trying to argue politics with Rush Limbaugh. I'd contribute to the thread if there was any real way to contribute, but every talk I've ever had with most of the people discussing religion here ends up with a bunch of people covering their ears and throwing stones. And no, I won't be back to this thread as I know that all I'm doing is creating more fodder for people to act superior rather than actually take a second look at their close-mindedness.

[Melchiah]

These make me laugh. After how many people shitted on that 'Please pray for' thread and couldn't walk out the door even though it had shit all to do with them, yet the mention of how this 'discussion' isn't so much a discussion rather than a baited trap for atheists to pat themselves on the back gets people grumpy. For an actual discussion you need open minded people. This is like trying to watch MSNBC have an argument with Fox News. We've got the most biased people here trying to prove the unprovable and making claims that make no sense. The world is the way it is and until someone figures out how to get rid of greed and pride, wars and violence will never stop.

Though again, I really don't know why I'm here considering talking religion here is like trying to argue politics with Rush Limbaugh. I'd contribute to the thread if there was any real way to contribute, but every talk I've ever had with most of the people discussing religion here ends up with a bunch of people covering their ears and throwing stones. And no, I won't be back to this thread as I know that all I'm doing is creating more fodder for people to act superior rather than actually take a second look at their close-mindedness.

Hey asshole

Find a post by me in that thread.

Until then, I'm perfectly justified in telling you to kindly fuck off and drip your BRP-juice somewhere else.

[Melchiah]

yes because the bad guys are doing it so must you. your logic is wonderful

I said the organized part of religion sucks. neo asked about the belief itself, not the religion

Uh... what?

Scientists are not interested in controlling the hearts and minds of anyone. Their pursuit is knowledge, and the only thing they get their panties in a wad about is when some religious asshat stonewalls their pursuit of knowledge with rediculous legislation that has no basis or justification in fact. The other guys however, are totally interested in trying to legislate their brand of morality, and cram that shit down everyone else's throat. No real scientist gives two shits if what you believe, just that you don't cockblock his pursuit of knowledge.

[Demosthenes11]

Uh... what?

Scientists are not interested in controlling the hearts and minds of anyone. Their pursuit is knowledge, and the only thing they get their panties in a wad about is when some religious asshat stonewalls their pursuit of knowledge with rediculous legislation that has no basis or justification in fact. The other guys however, are totally interested in trying to legislate their brand of morality, and cram that shit down everyone else's throat. No real scientist gives two shits if what you believe, just that you don't cockblock his pursuit of knowledge.

you are overgeneralizing religion so much its mind-boggling, but that has been covered already and it's stupid to rehash that shit

nothing more can be said here

[Melchiah]

Fine, you want me to nitpick?

Pick any theocracy you can think of.

Pick anyone who runs on the Republican ticket in America.

The influence is there, and if you try to deny it you are either ignorant or dishonest.

[Demosthenes11]

Fine, you want me to nitpick?

Pick any theocracy you can think of.

O RLY

edit: I can play this game too!
Look at all the oppressive atheist leaders of the past! mao, pot, stalin, lenin, ,mussolini...damn atheists
religion is just a scapegoat to get power

[Melchiah]

O RLY

Nevermind, not worth it.

[Neosutra]

I like how you ignored the first part of my response Demo. Not only that, you ignored the FIRST post in this thread dealing with the effects of belief and theism in a society where individual actions effect the whole. Is your entire attack plan to restate things that have already been covered and refuted? "But atheists dont have morals". "But people can do bad w/o religion". "But I didnt read the thread before posting, and if I did Im being intentionally obtuse".

[Eratosthenes]

O RLY

edit: I can play this game too!
Look at all the oppressive atheist leaders of the past! mao, pot, stalin, lenin, ,mussolini...damn atheists
religion is just a scapegoat to get power

Come on, say the "H" guy... you know you wanna, just get it over with.

[Melchiah]

O RLY

edit: I can play this game too!
Look at all the oppressive atheist leaders of the past! mao, pot, stalin, lenin, ,mussolini...damn atheists
religion is just a scapegoat to get power

My response to this ill-thought argument is the following:

None of those regimes have lasted any longer than the lifespan of the man involved.

Certain religions have been influencing, if not outright controlling national politics for centuries.

You tell me which is worse.

[Demosthenes11]

I like how you ignored the first part of my response Demo. Not only that, you ignored the FIRST post in this thread dealing with the effects of belief and theism in a society where individual actions effect the whole. Is your entire attack plan to restate things that have already been covered and refuted?

You're right, scientific method is the end-all, be-all when it comes to the world and we should all live our lives by it. The scientific method is not the pinnacle of knowledge to most people, and treating it as such with them is pointless.

and are you saying that if i believed in a god that wants me to do good things, I am a detriment to society? Millions of people have their own beliefs and don't hurt anybody. Collective mentality is not an excuse to eliminate individual mentalities

[Demosthenes11]

My response to this ill-thought argument is the following:

None of those regimes have lasted any longer than the lifespan of the man involved.

Certain religions have been influencing, if not outright controlling national politics for centuries.

You tell me which is worse.

and many of them have produced the best societies the world has ever seen, your point?

[Linliel]

Come on, say the "H" guy... you know you wanna, just get it over with.

Yes, please! And then *finally* we can get this over and done with with a Godwin's Law call.

[Demosthenes11]

was hitler an atheist? i thought he was a christian tbh >.>;

[Neosutra]

You're right, scientific method is the end-all, be-all when it comes to the world and we should all live our lives by it. The scientific method is not the pinnacle of knowledge to most people, and treating it as such with them is pointless.

and are you saying that if i believed in a god that wants me to do good things, I am a detriment to society? Millions of people have their own beliefs and don't hurt anybody. Collective mentality is not an excuse to eliminate individual mentalities

1. "Good things" can include stoning a woman for getting raped in some areas, or general prejudice. "Good things" can be the sheer oppression of knowledge because it contradicts your beliefs. "good" is relative. If only people applied rational standards to what they considered good/bad and not follow any edict given by their invisible friend...

2. And the scientific method isnt a principle you live by, read the fucking thread and stop attempting to turn it into some ideaology when its been stated many times it is just a standard.

The only premis we are stating is that ALL hypothesis are REQUIRED to pass applicable tests/standards before we can call them reasonable theories. You keep ignoring this point and argument against thing that have been covered a dozen times in this thread already. You are intentionally being obtuse.

[Demosthenes11]

and i'm continually telling you people don't need science to tell them there is proof of god.
your 'good things' argument is completely random here. You don't need to be religious to do those things.

Reasonable is not reasonable to everyone, stop acting like it ever will be

[Eratosthenes]

was hitler an atheist? i thought he was a christian tbh >.>;

No, he wasn't. You were making arguments like "atheists will never be convinced by anything just like theists" and "God can't be disproven" and "look at all these bad people who were atheists", it just seemed like you were arguing off some list of theist canards, and that one usually pops up.

[kareface]

He was religious, tho no one knows if it was for show. He also openly spoke out against evolution. However he was in favor of a competing theory that was similar, the the mechanism was suggested to be different.

The scientific method is not the pinnacle of knowledge to most people, and treating it as such with them is pointless.

This might be true. However, until I can say a prayer to help me break the speed of sound, I'm going to have to rely on the scientific method.

P.S. No time for huge rebuttals *sadface*

[Titanss]

1. "Good things" can include stoning a woman for getting raped in some areas,

damn she gets raped and stoned for being raped .. double whammy

[Kaylia]

I understand that English is not your first language, which is why I'm giving you a free pass on this one. Neo was being sarcastic and ironic in that statement by implying that there is no morality without God. He knows it isn't true, it's just sarcasm and ironic language.

I figured this much, I don't understand why you are explaining his post. Trying to avoid perfectly fine question using poor attempt at sarcasm is what Neo do all the time, I simply chose to ignore them, especially when they are unrelated with the point I'm trying to make.


Because Neosutra doesn't want to reply, I will ask you the question instead. Do you think it's possible to have a moral guideline based strictly on entropy, or it require additional beliefs that are not defined within science?