merits and do they make me a bad mage?

[Araelus]

iirc, discoid is only affected by MDT which is why shell5 lvl 5 slashes his damage so heavily. much like 1000 needles is affected by -phys damage and NOT by def, the same can be said for discoid and MDB.

That's correct. To Hiryo, since you expected the barspell to do something... Magic Defense Bonus does nothing against Discoid but Magic Damage Taken -% lowers Discoid's HP drain because the attack is doing pure magical damage. The barspell merits mentioned increase MDB but it's not the same stat as MDT-% even if the results on elemental spell damage is similar.

[Tobatobu]

Sort of off topic, but mostly want to hear some of you guys elaborate on the barspell stuff. I went the regen/curecast route on my whm and I'm just recently trying to look into barspells. I see some people are saying barspell merits are awesome for HNM ,but in terms of the MDEF that the merits(and the blessed briault supposedly) give, I've been trying to use them in other situations too. Pretty much anytime I think I can guess an elemental property of an attack in the area (usually salvage, sky, sea, etc) then I'll keep it up.

But then I did Zhayolm Remnants the other day and got a chance to test out my lol2 barspell merits (supposedly +4 MDEF) and blessed briault against Discoid. Pretty much I got no damage reduction from doing the barspell (comparing My party to the thief party, yes they were in my ShellV). I was doing barblizzarra for the fight.

So pretty much, the question I have is, is the MDEF really only relevant to the appropriate element? And how do you guys discern which element to do against enemies you arent sure about? I pretty much try to go by the status it inflicts, bind = bliz, stun = thunder, etc

I went with full regen and full barspells, and recommend the same.
- Full regen will make your Regen 3, which brings you to 25 HP, every 3 seconds.
- Full Barspells will give you +10 MDB vs that particular element.

As to decerning a Job Abilities damage type, there are some that are still puzzeling, but for the most part you can figure it out, and try to remember. If your first pick, doesn't work try another. Without Barlight and Bardark, we are missing two major elements.

I know that some do not always match their BLU mage counterparts. For example, Curse Sphere, I have never had dmg reduction from Water, even though the BLU spell says it deals water dmg. Also keep in mind that some status effects sometimes come from multiple elements. Earthbreaker is a earth based stun move done by HNM Scorpions.

I have read that Discoid can be reduced by Shellra, but I don't know its element. My first guess would be ice, the same as your, but its possible is dark based, or has no specified element.

A related thread to this: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-...mijin-you.html

[Hiryo]

Thanks for the answers. Not sure how i feel about it's MDEF not effecting things like discoid. I dont know, i'll do other elements next time and see if i can get any result at all~

[Ultimagi]

Discoid doesn't have any element, its not effected by Magic Defense at all. It's 4400 damage total, every time, subject to damage reduction only.

[Spekkio]

discoid is a very narrow choice to base your decision off of. just for example, odin's blizzaga3 can be reduced dramatically by hitting people in range with barblizz at t5. the question is not are they useful. they are. nobody who has used them or payed attention to someone with them will try to argue that they are not, i suspect. the question is, how often are they useful to YOU and does that justify buying them over say regen. for my whm, no. for most others, yes. it's a judgment call.

[Silenka]

Discoid doesn't have any element, its not effected by Magic Defense at all. It's 4400 damage total, every time, subject to damage reduction only.

OMG GUYS NIN MOBS MAKE SURE BARFIRA IS UP


*rolls eyes* Drives me fuckin' nuts.

Don't mind me, carry on. :D

[Ultimagi]

Some of my dynamis people still use Barfira.

[Araelus]

Some of my dynamis people still use Barfira.

So long as they do so in a self-referentially ironic way it's fine.

[Kenji]

For SMN:
I went 5/5 avatar attack and 5/5 magic attack.
Why not accuracy? Because with enough smn skill, AF pants, and AF2 gloves, your avatar accuracy is gonna basically be as good as it can possibly be. From my perspective, the odds that I land a bad p.claws is the same with or without the extra accuracy.

On the other hand, magic attack is a demonstrable direct damage increase. You can literally see your max damage rise as you put merits in it. If you go 5/5, and max out a tier 2 BP, you can get a good 1k damage magic attack (assuming no resist or magic reduction from target). And if you do SMN for various things, it's always useful to have a good magic attack for when things have a high defense or high evasion or phys immune. Plus, even if you don't bother with tier2 BPs, it benefits meteorite (soloing), nether blast, and astral flow.

Lastly, with the Garuda headband and the -perp gear available, there are many times when I leave her out for minimal (or free!) cost, to build TP. TP also affects heals like Healing Wind, so I can throw out a strong aoe cure between p.claws. Or if I build enough, I can toss out a wind blade, which often times hits for the same or higher than p.claws, depending on target.

For WHM:
if you can pick up cure clogs, and get your SCH sub leveled, then you just need loq earring and 2/5 cure cast merits. Anymore won't do anything for you. After that, it's basically what you find yourself using most. Barspell and regen merits(with AF2 body) are both highly useful. I have 3/5 barspell and 5/5 regen now, simply because I cast a ton more regens. But I'll probably switch the extras into barspells eventually.

For tier2, I did one in pro V (just to get the spell), 4 into devotion and 5 into Shellra V. Devotion on 12.5 min cooldown, is not much different than a 10 min cooldown, as far as when I get around to using it. Martyr can be useful for an instant cure, or for when you're silenced, but you should always be carrying echo drops, and learn to judge when to cast cures. And I feel the recast on it is too high to be useful.

[Mandog]

Someone calling you a bad mage because of your merit choices is pretty stupid no matter how abstract your merits are TBH.

If you can play your job right on those mage jobs, no one should be bitching you out - maybe they should level mage jobs themselves so they can do it "right"?

This!

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Someone calling you a bad mage because of your merit choices is pretty stupid no matter how abstract your merits are TBH.

If you can play your job right on those mage jobs, no one should be bitching you out - maybe they should level mage jobs themselves so they can do it "right"?

I don't level a mage job because I know I wouldn't like it. That doesn't mean I know nothing about the job. Sure if the white mage is the best you know, merits aren't a problem, but yea.. From a tank point of view you can easily tell if your support is good or not, having it leveled or not.

[shaddix]

if you can pick up cure clogs, and get your SCH sub leveled, then you just need loq earring and 2/5 cure cast merits. Anymore won't do anything for you.

False, see http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-...ml#post2540302 for explanation.

[Grym]

Red Mage: I just got it 75 so it doesn't have anything yet but plan to do
Group 1
Ice, wind and earth accuracy
Group 2
I plan either Dia 3 or Bio 3
and to cap Slow 2 and Paralyze 2

Firstly you cannot merit anything else if you cap Paralyze II AND Slow II as there is your 10 upgrades all gone.

Earth macc isn't hugely necessary, yes it will help landing your Slow II, but each Slow II merits already give extra macc. And the issue with Slow II is, it isn't life/death situation if it doesn't land, just cast it again after 5 seconds. Spells like Silence, Gravity, Bind, those CAN be life/death situation if resisted at the wrong time, especially if you ever plan to solo anything on your RDM, so I would recommend concentrating on wind and ice acc.

Bio III vs Dia III. How many merits do you plan to spare for them? Bio III isn't worth it IMO unless you put 3+ merits into it, the DoT just isn't worth the MP spent vs duration. And Bio III is only worth it if you merits it 3+ AND you DoT solo a lot, in most end game event, you will be using Dia over Bio in most cases. Dia III on the other hand, 1~2 merits will do you just fine, you use them for zerg purpose mainly, with 2 merits of Dia III it lasts 1min, 15% defence down is great if you have heavy DD so myself I prefer Dia over Bio pretty much anyday.

I myself went with:
Group 1:
5/5 Convert Recast
3/5 Wind acc
2/5 Ice acc

Group 2:
5/5 Slow II
3/5 Para II
2/5 Dia III

But depends how you play your RDM you would merit them differently, for example if you in tank PT a lot in events I am sure they would love you for having Phalanx II and such.

[Sheebs]

martyr is a waste of merits, 5/5 shell + 4/5 devotion, then that last merit is between pro or 5/5 devotion

a pld would much rather 200-300mp & cure themselves for hate than the whm martyr'ing

QFT

WHM Merits
5/5 Cure Cast time
5/5 Barspell

5 Shellra V
4 Devotion
1 Protectra V

Regen is useless as usually in most event situations it will get cured over by other mages or the pld's themselves. If a tank is in the yellow and you are counting on your regen to keep him alive...fail, someone will throw him a cure or he will cure himself. Not to mention the time it takes to cast the regen spells can be a liability and most likely you were better off tossing a cure. I used to have merits their but I took them all out for capped barspells long ago.

Even people who don't do HNM's benefit from this setup. Nyzul, salvage, dynamis, limbus, einherjar, enm's, bcnm's, and ksnm's are all situations a fast cure, some magic damage resistance and ability to spread the mp around is an asset.

[Shin Volcano]

QFT

WHM Merits
5/5 Cure Cast time
5/5 Barspell

5 Shellra V
4 Devotion
1 Protectra V

Regen is useless as usually in most event situations it will get cured over by other mages or the pld's themselves. If a tank is in the yellow and you are counting on your regen to keep him alive...fail, someone will throw him a cure or he will cure himself. Not to mention the time it takes to cast the regen spells can be a liability and most likely you were better off tossing a cure. I used to have merits their but I took them all out for capped barspells long ago.

Even people who don't do HNM's benefit from this setup. Nyzul, salvage, dynamis, limbus, einherjar, enm's, bcnm's, and ksnm's are all situations a fast cure, some magic damage resistance and ability to spread the mp around is an asset.

Lmao...i have to strongly disagree with you there, regen is WELL worth it, espcially if they are blink tanking, or you need to rest, a good whm knows how to use regen properly, example is a good nin or a pld/nin that can keep shadows up you going to toss a cure IV or V for wasted MP? or you will regen to let that HP gradually recover if he isn't about to die, i personaly didn't merit regen, i went 5/5 cure cast and barspell because fast cures were important alot of times, since i had AF2 body to take care of regen, and i respect any whm that decides to put merits into regen, calling them "useless" is a biast opinion, either you've never used it or you don't know how to use it, it is a very useful spell. you can't always toss cures at the right times, it's important for hate management as well. and i'v done everything you can think of as far as end game goes as whm, regen is VERY important in salvage before HP cells as an example. it will save you ALOT of mp over time, obviously if the person is getting there ass kicked you need to cure, just...use it in a smart way.

Originally Posted by Chen
martyr is a waste of merits, 5/5 shell + 4/5 devotion, then that last merit is between pro or 5/5 devotion

a pld would much rather 200-300mp & cure themselves for hate than the whm martyr'ing

Hey, good luck curing when you have 5 mp left from somone that is dying, so instead of tossing a possible 5-600 HP Martyr you'd rather kneel down with a tank in red hp and tell them "sorry no mp to cure you" sigh...where do these whms come from...now while i'll admit martyr isn't the most useful, the very few times it is usefull it HELPS, stop knocking abilites just because you've never tried them.

Mob hits tank for 150 damage

tank hp = 50 hp "shit!"

[WHM] mp = 10 "sorry dude cant help you"

[WHM with Martyr] WHM uses maryr (insert name here recovers 556 HP]

Tank "!!"

Done. this was just a example of a rare occurance that it CAN help. don't knock it. never max it of course.

[Sheebs]

Lmao...i have to strongly disagree with you there, regen is WELL worth it, espcially if they are blink tanking, or you need to rest, a good whm knows how to use regen properly, example is a good nin or a pld/nin that can keep shadows up you going to toss a cure IV or V for wasted MP? or you will regen to let that HP gradually recover if he isn't about to die, i personaly didn't merit regen, i went 5/5 cure cast and barspell because fast cures were important alot of times, since i had AF2 body to take care of regen, and i respect any whm that decides to put merits into regen, calling them "useless" is a biast opinion, either you've never used it or you don't know how to use it, it is a very useful spell. you can't always toss cures at the right times, it's important for hate management as well. and i'v done everything you can think of as far as end game goes as whm, regen is VERY important in salvage before HP cells as an example. it will save you ALOT of mp over time, obviously if the person is getting there ass kicked you need to cure, just...use it in a smart way.


Hey, good luck curing when you have 5 mp left from somone that is dying, so instead of tossing a possible 5-600 HP Martyr you'd rather kneel down with a tank in red hp and tell them "sorry no mp to cure you" sigh...where do these whms come from...now while i'll admit martyr isn't the most useful, the very few times it is usefull it HELPS, stop knocking abilites just because you've never tried them.

Mob hits tank for 150 damage

tank hp = 50 hp "shit!"

[WHM] mp = 10 "sorry dude cant help you"

[WHM with Martyr] WHM uses maryr (insert name here recovers 556 HP]

Tank "!!"

Done. this was just a example of a rare occurance that it CAN help. don't knock it. never max it of course.

I didn't say the Regen spell wasn't useful at times, I was referring to merits. I also didn't call any whm that puts merits in it "useless". Learn to read.

In my experience all the good PLD/NIN want to cure themselves for hate and would rather a WHM not touch them at all unless they are down shadows and in orange or out of mp. A good PLD/NIN doesn't want to waste mp on a cure 4 that cures 50 hp, so they want to be around 90-93% full. I thow regen out here or there depending on situations (macroing in afv2 body is handy), but 95% of the time they get a couple ticks and heal themselves or someone else does. Or of course it does nothing to combat the beatdown they are taking and you end up curing anyway.

[orson]

Of course, and that's exactly why you can't say that skill > gear. Skilled players realize the need for great gear. Simply put, a skilled player has min-maxed his/her job(s) to the best of their potential, or is in the progress of. However, lazy people use "skill > gear" as a crutch not to have to farm for good gear, which is of course entirely ridiculous.

The odd player might use that as an excuse and not understand the value of gear and merits but reality is the statement "skill > gear" remains valid. Lazy, stupid, and immature people will always come up with reasons as to why they sucked instead of actually just listening how to improve. The thing is just as many people use the excuse that only gear matters so really good gear doesn't mean that player is going to preform well even if you're just talking a straight up DD job.

[Arthars]

regen is good yes

but bar spell lvl 5 and cure speed lvl 5 is just a little better, sorry

martyr is good to have for the oshit situation. but not really needed. and again. it doesnt suck to have.

just a matter of individual choices

[Shin Volcano]

I didn't say the Regen spell wasn't useful at times, I was referring to merits. I also didn't call any whm that puts merits in it "useless". Learn to read.

In my experience all the good PLD/NIN want to cure themselves for hate and would rather a WHM not touch them at all unless they are down shadows and in orange or out of mp.

o_O that's precisly what regen is mainly FOR you cast regen on them so there hp gradually recovers instead of you spam curing them so they can generate hate, that's what the Hate Managment comment i stated in my previous posts was implying, i think it's you who needs to learn to read...

A good PLD/NIN doesn't want to waste mp on a cure 4 that cures 50 hp, so they want to be around 90-93% full. I thow regen out here or there depending on situations (macroing in afv2 body is handy), but 95% of the time they get a couple ticks and heal themselves or someone else does. Or of course it does nothing to combat the beatdown they are taking and you end up curing anyway.

Wait, what? lol when did i say cure IV recovers 50 HP..what on earth are you talking about...i already explained that whole thing in my post..i said if they are DOWN to 50 HP and the whm is out of MP..seriously. did you even read the post? i'm kind of confused here..

[shaddix]

yo! if pld or nin is missing hp and you want to use regen + /heal to recover that lost hp then:

Regen cast time is so long that, if you toss a cure and then immediately /heal. The difference in mp cost is negligible, *assuming you actually get the first tic of hmp*.