Guiness Book of World Records 2009 Gamers Edition

[Priran]

Red. Faction.

The fact that I can even name one means that there are probably plenty of others out there because as I said I was never into shooters, as time went on I became less and less interested too.

that game didn't even come out the same generation as goldeneye. plus I don't remember vehicles in the multiplayer.


can someone explain how orange box and bioshock have been influential? I think I missed something

also, lol@lack of kill.switch or ring of red

[Charismatic]

Uh, I never said it came out in the same generation as Goldeneye, what the fuck you been smokin?
Looks like my custom title applies more to others than it does to me.

[OzzofAsura]

Not disputing whether or not you liked FFVII. Saying that it was extremely influential. No RPG has influenced gaming as much as FFVII has, not one to this day. Is it my super fav game everz? no. I liked it a lot. But I also really like Legend of Dragoon.

Halo for example, I think is the biggest turd to ever grace a console. (I know it's not THAT bad, but I give it extra shitty points because so many people act like it was delivered by god). It is definitely worse than people say/think it is. HOWEVER, I agree that it did something different and somewhat *influenced* things that came after it. I'd put it in the top 100, maybe top 50. Wolfenstein/Doom did shit loads more than Halo though.

I think the Guinness people just said "Hey, we don't know much about video games, but lets make a list so we look more versatile".

Edit: I don't remember Ring of Red. Looking now...

Edit 2: Looked it up and it doesn't even look familiar.

[Cream Soda]

Vice city under GTA and San adreas? bullshit, lol

[Elcura]

Beaten by Grandia and Panzer Dragoon Saga in what way? Honest question.
Both were interesting games but I can't think of any reason to call them superior games.

You had better not say the storytelling.

I'd like to know this as well.

-----

But to say that it had "poor polygonal graphics" is ridiculous. Considering when FFVII came out the graphics were fucking amazing. Hell, they still are. Say what you will about the game play, the story or the characters. You cannot shit on the graphics. SE can be hated for a lot of reasons, but their presentation is not one of them.

Sure, it's easier to do so 10 years later, but all things considered (platform, 3D software and knowledge etc) they did an amazing job and continue to be one of the forerunners of 3D graphics.

Yes, I fanboy over SE when it comes to graphics.

Design, you can shit on SE, but you can't exactly say they made everyone look simplistic on purpose. Considering how Tetsuya Nomura designs things, I'd say simplistic is not the word he'd use to describe his artwork lol.

[Pikarya]

Halo created all vidya gaems. Anyone that disagrees with this logic is obviously a casual gamer or troll.

http://imgshack.info/images/vbcksgsqqgmg7v8bk77f.jpg

[Kuya]

But... casual gamers love Halo... and trolls love Halo to troll trolls trolling Halo trolls...

[BadKarma]

Halo? HALO? fucking halo is not THAT awesome to be as high as it is.
Good fps with a decent/great story and fun easter eggs yeah but it needs more weapon balance. Halo only deserves to be on the list because of the red vs blue webseries.

and the fact that it, along with golden eye, revolutionized Console FPS's helps to

[Ferien]

GoldenEye easily set the tone for all future console FPS, with a game that not only had a phenomenal single-player, but a wildly popular multiplayer mode. Regardless of what the reason was, it eclipsed everything before it. The games that came out afterwards were either influenced by or did something that GoldenEye had already done, which is really the whole point of being "influential". It really doesn't matter that prior consoles never could have handled it, or that it was the first solid N64 shooter. The fact is, it was the first one, and all others came after it. While Halo was a great game and the first to allow large scale multiplayer, it contributed little to the genre when compared to GoldenEye.

As for FF7, ignoring the fact that at release it was visually the best game out, it introduced the genre to a huge new player base. FF7 was the launching point for many players, and that's what makes it so influential. FF1 started it all, there will forever be debate as for which of the first 7 has the best story (6 ftw, and fuck all of you who think differently), but it cannot be denied that 7 was the catalyst for the series' popularity, especially outside of Japan. Take FF8 for example: lots of us here would rate it worse than 4, 6, 7, or 9. However, it's the second-best selling FF title (after 7), and the 8th-best selling RPG title of all time. It also sold faster than any other game in the series, hitting $50M in 13 weeks. Why? Because everyone was so enamored with 7, that they lined up for release date to get their hands on 8. Like the game or not, it's easily one of the most important games ever released.

[Kohan]

I'd like to know this as well.

One of the reasons Charismatic said he didn't want to hear is definitely the storytelling. The sense of adventure, the excellent character definition, and the interesting mythologies contained within the world of "Grandia" were superb. The dramatic, unforgiving, deliberately depressing setting of "Panzer Dragoon Saga" was wonderfully immersive.

FFVII had a typical action anime storyline. Amnesiac young male character, hopelessly kind female lead, twisted good guy gone bad, et cetera.

But to say that it had "poor polygonal graphics" is ridiculous.

Did I say that? I'm rather sure I didn't.

No, I didn't.

Did I say, however, that the graphics were unimpressive? Certainly. They were acceptable for the time, but leaps and bounds above the average quality title? No, definitely not.

Considering how Tetsuya Nomura designs things, I'd say simplistic is not the word he'd use to describe his artwork lol.

Nomura was the beginning of the downfall for interesting character designs on Square's flagship series. His contributions are, for the most part, horrible, and brought upon hideous modifications to the series' artwork -- the infamous abundance of leather, buckles, spiked hairstyles, Japanese hipster culture influences, and so on. Terrible artist, terrible mistake making them the primary contributor for character designs and what not.

If you want to call their work "complex," feel free to do so, but it is complex in all of the wrong ways.

Really, though, I'm not sure why I'd bother to explain myself, considering that most of the FF devotees didn't care to read what I'd written. You're arguing against my statements by saying FFVII popularized JRPGs in the US, when that's exactly what I said in the beginning?

Come on now. You can read a little first.

And another thing, not everyone was absolutely taken with FFVII. I really don't know why this is so hard to understand, but then again, this is a forum that was originally dedicated to a Final Fantasy entry. Shouldn't be surprised some of its hardcore devotees are still dwelling.

FFVII never was and never will be the "best RPG of all time." It dramatically popularized JRPGs in North America, and deserves respect for that. This does not mean it was nor is impervious to criticism nowadays, and all this "it's easier to do it 10 years later" is utter bullshit. Hate to disappoint you fanboys, but it wasn't the best game around even when it was new. Reviews from the time even disagree, specifically pointing out its flaws in relation to the two aforementioned RPGs. It isn't a mere matter of reflection, it's the masses latching onto a recognizable, easily understood, typical "action movie"-fare storyline, the accessibility of a simplified though still turn-based battle system, and so on, so forth.

Unfortunately, the dumbing down of the series continues even to this day -- what FFVII started, FF still suffers from. They're hardly even RPGs anymore, you may as well call them action/adventure games with RPG elements nowadays (or RPGs with training wheels). FFXII did its best to break that trend, but unsurprisingly, it wasn't developed by their usual people -- undeniably, that has everything to do with it.

EDIT: And fucking really, someone actually likes Nomura? You must be shitting me. Just look at his Wikipedia page, and note every game where he was the character designer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsuya_Nomura

All the evidence is right there. The characters in those games, across the board, are basically disgusting. Sora is a clown, FFX is a technicolor journey through retards trying to dress themselves with primary colors, "The Bouncer" -- well, come on, it was fucking "The Bouncer" -- doesn't really need elaboration, and... what else did he do? Oh, shit that clones the work he already did? Go go originality, except not. Only the ones in "The World Ends With You" are remotely passable, mostly because they're -- as odd as it sounds -- the most believable ones, despite even the "aggressively unrealistic/anorexic" style applied to them. They fit the game world. That other shit? That is not fantasy, fuck off with that shit. I don't care if you are in a make believe world, you wear something functional or you get the fuck out.

[Elcura]

Did I say that? I'm rather sure I didn't.

No, I didn't.

Did I say, however, that the graphics were unimpressive? Certainly. They were acceptable for the time, but leaps and bounds above the average quality title? No, definitely not.

Bullshit. Sure, you didn't say "poor", that was my bad. But plain? Fuck no. Unimpressive? Hahaha. 1997, what game had better graphics? Actually, what games had such good graphics that FFVII doesn't get the recognition for graphics it certainly deserves? I'm serious, I would love to know. The field graphics weren't all that impressive I'll give you, yet they still had charm. The battle graphics were fantastic and the pre-rendered cut scenes in the game are still impressive in nature.

They weren't just acceptable for the time, they pushed the need for graphics to get better.

Nomura was the beginning of the downfall for interesting character designs on Square's flagship series. His contributions are, for the most part, horrible, and brought upon hideous modifications to the series' artwork -- the infamous abundance of leather, buckles, spiked hairstyles, Japanese hipster culture influences, and so on. Terrible artist, terrible mistake making them the primary contributor for character designs and what not.

Right now, yeah this is Nomura's fault. He's a director who can ultimately decide these things and make them happen. He's a pretty bad designer, I'll give you that. But he's in no way a bad artist. If you gave Nomura a design, told him to redraw it and he gave you the result. It would be good.

If you want to call their work "complex," feel free to do so, but it is complex in all of the wrong ways.

Exactly what I meant.

EDIT: And fucking really, someone actually likes Nomura? You must be shitting me. Just look at his Wikipedia page, and note every game where he was the character designer:

I like Nomura as an artist. He draws everything perfectly fine. He has an excellent grasp on anatomy, lighting, colour balance and composition. As an artist, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Nomura, but as a designer then yeah, you have a lot of ammo there to flame him.

I think the distinction between artist and designer needs to be made here.

[OzzofAsura]

Bullshit. Sure, you didn't say "poor", that was my bad. But plain? Fuck no. Unimpressive? Hahaha. 1997, what game had better graphics? Actually, what games had such good graphics that FFVII doesn't get the recognition for graphics it certainly deserves? I'm serious, I would love to know. The field graphics weren't all that impressive I'll give you, yet they still had charm. The battle graphics were fantastic and the pre-rendered cut scenes in the game are still impressive in nature.

They weren't just acceptable for the time, they pushed the need for graphics to get better.



Right now, yeah this is Nomura's fault. He's a director who can ultimately decide these things and make them happen. He's a pretty bad designer, I'll give you that. But he's in no way a bad artist. If you gave Nomura a design, told him to redraw it and he gave you the result. It would be good.



Exactly what I meant.



I like Nomura as an artist. He draws everything perfectly fine. He has an excellent grasp on anatomy, lighting, colour balance and composition. As an artist, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Nomura, but as a designer then yeah, you have a lot of ammo there to flame him.

I think the distinction between artist and designer needs to be made here.

^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said.

You think Final Fantasy's graphics were average for the time? You played this game, right? There was nothing better looking at the time. Things that were better looking came shortly after, but nothing during or before. The story and design and blah blah are more subjective as they rest more on your opinion, but the graphics? You're crazy...