Puppets Max MAB

[Tename]

If you use Loudespeaker II, Manachanneler, Tranquilizer, and Icemaker. Given Drachen Roll. Have Relic Puppet pants, and maxed Optimization 5 (is this plus MAB or a different trait?? Ill assume its MAB here)

3 Ice Maneuver

25 MAB from speaker
10 MAB from Mana
16 lucky 11 with DRG
5 from pants
25 from Optimization

Thats 81 MAB... with Icemaker giving additional 60% on top of that

1.81x1.6 gives you an insane number of 2.896... thats 189MAB?!? is this real?

[Suiram]

It's real.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-...er-merits.html

Edit: Bah, it's gone now but on page 2 there used to be an insane Blizzard cast vs. a Buffalo. You can see the discussion that follows but the pic is gone.

Edit2: Also, just to be clear, it's not actually 189 MAB, but it would be a damage increase equivalent to 189 MAB with the assumptions you listed.

[Lishje]

Ya, but it's really too bad we don't get more M.acc attachments.

I'd like a few in the Earth slots.


hmm.. *runs off to write a letter to s.e.*

lolpup~

[Suiram]

Isn't tranquilizer pretty good though, especially w/ 3 ice maneuvers? (I know jack shit about PUP, but this actually came up in a conversation earlier today lol)

[Lishje]

It does ok. No one really knows the exact values of it, considering magic accuracy is so hard to test, but I notice it a lot more on IT mobs. I've nuked yovra's with and without it on, and I see a huge difference in resist rates with just 2 manuevers up.

So who's to say? I usually do Loudspeaker II / Tranq / Ice maker for my ice slots on anything above VT.

[pchan]

If you use Loudespeaker II, Manachanneler, Tranquilizer, and Icemaker. Given Drachen Roll. Have Relic Puppet pants, and maxed Optimization 5 (is this plus MAB or a different trait?? Ill assume its MAB here)

3 Ice Maneuver

25 MAB from speaker
10 MAB from Mana
16 lucky 11 with DRG
5 from pants
25 from Optimization

Thats 81 MAB... with Icemaker giving additional 60% on top of that

1.81x1.6 gives you an insane number of 2.896... thats 189MAB?!? is this real?

Yes, but it's not the max. You can add loudspeaker I, and optic fiber. I did this pic for the lulz, but you can get bigger numbers when using AF hands, AF2 legs. I didn't have drachen's roll.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...ann/lolpup.jpg

[Tename]

yes i definitely forgot Optic Fiber... but i usually use tranquilizer instead of speaker I because i dont like resisted spells.

[Spekkio]

do the haste hands affect your puppet's recast speed? also, what are the dogmatic merits for pup anymore? is 5/5 optimization the new norm? feel free to ignore me if i'm too far off topic.

[tsola]

Yeah, 5/5Optimization is the way to go; also don't forget 5/5 Magic skill merits to actually get Fire4/Blizzard4.

To Pchan, how did you do so much? Was that with 2hour/firesday/weather proc?

I think on flans my fire 4 does about 1600ish, with 5/5Optimization, but no AF2 feet.

This is the best I've done with blizzard 4:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...1-47-19-17.jpg

[miokomioko]

For a kited NM (e.g. soloing Iriz Ima) usually do a Loudspeaker I & II + Ice Maker + Mana Channeler, with Ice Ice Water maneuvers up. 1 water to absorb any possible overloads as I'm frequently deactivating to shed hate and restore MP. With those maneuvers/attachments up and 5/5 Optimization and 5/5 Magic skill, it caps out at exactly 1330 for Blizzard IV on Iriz Ima with no weather and +4 INT from gloves/maneuvers.

Too bad they fucked with the AI so you can't nuke Bumblebees with Blizzard IV to test damage.

[Tename]

so puppets can nuke some amazing number on manaburn mobs... what about some endgame bosses? is it viable? or just completely resisted?

yea also... does haste affect recast speed? Like turbocharger or relic hands?

[pchan]

Yeah, 5/5Optimization is the way to go; also don't forget 5/5 Magic skill merits to actually get Fire4/Blizzard4.

To Pchan, how did you do so much? Was that with 2hour/firesday/weather proc?

I think on flans my fire 4 does about 1600ish, with 5/5Optimization, but no AF2 feet.

This is the best I've done with blizzard 4:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...1-47-19-17.jpg

Firesday only. And absorb-int, but this is a pup's spell. Divide by 1.1 to get the number w/o day (1888 or something close).

[Meian]

do the haste hands affect your puppet's recast speed? also, what are the dogmatic merits for pup anymore? is 5/5 optimization the new norm? feel free to ignore me if i'm too far off topic.

Haste to my knowledge did not affect it but I haven't tested this throughly due to me taking a small break. 5/5 Optimization was always the norm to my knowledge... 1 in Ventriloqui (sp) and Role Reversal, rest in Fine Tuning.

so puppets can nuke some amazing number on manaburn mobs... what about some endgame bosses? is it viable? or just completely resisted?

yea also... does haste affect recast speed? Like turbocharger or relic hands?

Turbo Charger I am 100% sure that it doesn't work but as said above I am not quite sure on hands.

Depends what endgame bosses too. Sky Gods don't work that great as compared to something like Valoredge. It does really well on the regular pop mobs though, Limbus protos, dynamis especially. Basically anything that doesn't get resisted by BLM on average (without using ele skill gear). I heard it does amazing in Salvage bosses but I never do Salvage so I can't comment directly. DAD style lets you nuke often and well. I don't do 3 Ice because I tend to overload too often that way with Ice Maker so I stick to 2 Ice + 1 Water (Condenser/The MAB for Water that I can't remember right now)

[Psion]

I tried Oniwaka on LAC when i was a wee pup with only fire IV and 1 optimization merit, before relic came out. Oni was nuking LAC with water IV for up to 850 damage or so consistantly, pissing the blm off because he can't land spells that high without AMII and tends to get resisted a lot due to missing gear pathos etc. I need a new salvage shell so i can test out onis bliz IV on it with 5/5 optimization and relic pants/feet

Oh, and have a nice picture of oniwaka nuking a tiger in boredom. 3x ice, double loudspeaker/ice maker/optic fiber/mana channeler/condenser/and random magey attachments. There was double ice weather, and he used abs int before the nuke, but no MB, no iceday, and no drachen roll.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...912_161554.png

He did another tiger for 2400 damage exactly... but i cant find the picture ;;



To be honest, I'm not really sure why pup isn't extremely popular in endgame yet. A fully merited pup can put all but the best blms to shame, and even then it's close, and anything longer than 5 minutes the pup tends to pull ahead due to not needing refresh/rest/can nuke without worrying about hate levels. Even in the hardest scenario for pup, a manaburn in apollyonwhateverthebehemothoneis Oniwaka parsed 26.4% total damage out of blm blm pup sch brd rdm party. one of the other blms, an elvaan with great gear and merits, parsed 27.1%, while the taru blm with full merits and near perfect gear parsed 28.9% or so. As master my drains parsed another 0.7% though since its drain probably not 100% accurate, so i tied with the elvaan. the sch parsed a bit less, though he used helixes on the behemoths and parse doesnt read those very well, plus he helped us out in other ways.

Manaburn like this is difficult for pup due to our recast timer and the fact that its zerg > rest > zerg > rest pattern, instead of just one big mob. However, I was impressed i tied in second and kept up with the others, simply by using full nuke > deactivate > deploy > 1 ice nuke.

And unlike blms, if a mob is resistant to nukes we can simply use valoredge to tear it apart, and with VEs insanely high accuracy and ability to ignore a ton of mob defense, he can hit harder than all but 2H jobs, and sometimes even then. Oniwaka usually is in first on such mobs or nearly so depending on its defense (lower it is more other melees can get ahead, but if its low enough then i can beat on it for good damage too >_>; ) and unlike other melees, his cannibal blade sheds a ton of his hate while healing him, so even that frame doesn't have to worry about pulling hate and dying, helping his DoT.

Only tricky mobs Ive seen are ones that are magic squishy, melee resistant/incredibly nasty AoEs that even VE with steam jacket/analyzer/mana jammer/RR/repair can't survive in, and have draw in/hate reset... Just what am i supposed to do with those? (khimara assaults the only one ive encountered with this combo so far :s) If i use VE he gets pwned, if i use spiritreaver he lands nuke right as khimmy resets plds hate and then draws in oni and smacks him to death -_-; Only option left for me there seems to be useing soulsoother and tossing backup cure Vs on people lol.

[Tename]

i am new to pup end game... can someone tell me about valorridge for endgame? how does it work? does it even do dmg o_O

[AlexRuzhyo]

i am new to pup end game... can someone tell me about valorridge for endgame? how does it work? does it even do dmg o_O

Valoredge can use Cannibal Blade on certain mobs as a reliable and decent DoT. The only mob I know of who this can be done on is Kirin. AoE and varies other things can factor in. I haven't used pup for endgame outside of certain ZNM Marid so I can't say.

I've been sitting on a fully merited PUP but I have little to no mage gear for it. I'd like the INT to decrease Ice overloads but I can't justify spending my money yet. Once my SCH comes of level and I get my routine down I'd like to try it out more.

[Psion]

Valoredge has extremely high accuracy/attack and has attachments that can ignore some of a monsters evasion/defense... and pets naturally have an ability to ignore some of a monsters defenses already. Couple that with his A+ skill and fastest attack speed of all automatons, and other goodies, and you have an auto thats hitting for nearly normal damage on stuff that 1Hers tend to hit for 0 every few hits, and even 2Hers struggle to hit higher than 30-50ish sometimes. VE on the other hand for example, can merrily hit proto-omega in melee weak form for 70-90 a whack, 150+ crits while the best 2Hers i saw were hitting 50-60. Couple that with cannibal blade for its reliable 350ish damage no matter the mob and the ability to avoid hate, along with high survivability and you got an extremely reliable form of DoT. He might not seem like hes doing much, but a parse will show otherwise. I personally prefer using condenser and 3x thunder with coiler/heat seeker/target marker for high accuracy and 40% double attack, and alternate that with 3x wind with turbo charger for 25% haste +3% from relic gloves +2%ish or so from optic fiber enhancement. I alternate it because theres much less chance of getting a double overload, where water maneuver eats the first overload then the next maneuver overloads too orz.

Either way, your main issues using VE are of course, physical resistances and nasty AoEs. Status effects suck too since you can only remove those once every 3 minutes, but thats usually fairly tolerable. Physical resistances to worry about does NOT include high defense or evasion... defense is laughable against VEs abilities, and 3x thunder with heat seeker/target marker and +20 auto acc from relic body/herder subligar + 15 from 3 fine tuning merits +whatever you get from +10 auto melee skill vs high evasion is lulz... but actual physical damage taken -, invincible, perfect dodge, phalanx, and stoneskin are all VEs bane, as defense/evasion ignoring does nothing against these. The other of nasty AoEs is usually not too bad... steam jacket+ analyzer + mana jammer + auto repair kit II really helps his survivability, and 5/5 optimization for 25% def boost and 3 fine tuning for 15 evasion and more importantly, 15 (!) magic defense bonus is also a great boon. between these and repair enhanced with guignol earring/af feet will usually keep him healthy. If you need more, you can cut back on some triple maneuvers for a more balanced version that triggers cannibal blade to heal him. If you STILL need more healing power for VE, sub /sch and keep yourself at full hp, preferably with HP+ gear, and when he gets low on health, role-reversal cure him, then heal yourself back up. if all else fails and you need extra time, just retreive him away till you can heal him up lol. If you somehow fit shurzen on there, put up an earth maneuver if hes in critical while getting him back to high health.

so recap: equip those attachments, get 5/5 auto melee skill, 5/5 optimization, 3 fine tuning, 1 vent/RR merits, get herder subligar/pantin body to help his acc even more, sub /sch, bring auto oils +2 and af feet/guignol earring, and bring + hp gear for yourself to give him more hp when needed. Use RR over repair when you can, its instant health and free... just make sure to move more than 25 yalms away from the monster when healing yourself to avoid building cure hate.

Oh, and VE also excels at kited magic resistant mobs like kirin, as automatons follow the same pathing as monsters without lag, so they dont have the target is out of range issues pcs get trying to path with the monster by running in front of it.

[Tename]

is SCH only the suitable sub for endgame? id rather not level another job up after ive leveled everysingle other job to 60 and up XD

[miokomioko]

If you have Usukane (read: top notch melee equipment) you may as well sub WAR for offensive or NIN for survivability if it's something you can even touch... but only if you have Stringing Pummel. If it's not appropriate or realistic to melee, there's no reason for a sub other than SCH or WHM since you'll just be standing around, geared up for your pet (AF/relic/herder/etc).

[Tename]

ok... i think i am getting a glitch... my automaton is maxed at 75 natural magic skill... i put the merit into magic skill and i am started to skilling up again even though it shows max/max in magic skill o_o so do i have to keep skilling miagc?