Walk of Echoes

[Aro]

Make the whole zone pannel-drop style like vs Diabolos?

[Tulun]

I think there's lots they could do for strategy, it just depends how creative they want to be. (See: WoW... lots of DPS fights, but a number of weird quirks you have to deal with...)

It is nice to hear that this end game area might be instanced, though, they are *finally* getting it.

[Araelus]

Simple and annoying way to "challenge" players. When you enter the instance, everyone is brought down to level 1. There are groups of enemies in the instance and 1 boss, every time you kill a group of enemies you receive a chest that "levels up" the alliance by 5/10 levels until you hit 75 again... Works just like level sync...

Would never have said this before level sync. Imagine if you needed actual cap gear, ugh. I don't really want an "annoying" challenge. That's Fake Difficulty.

If it's actually tricky, like the famous CoP airship fight where everyone has to be co-ordinated, or the better Salvage runs where you pick how to deal with the zone and it changes what mobs pop (still no drops, but...) and so some amount of tactical acumen is rewarded, that's best.

Just messing with the players isn't great level design.

Also: perhaps those gargoyles will randomly be statues blending in with the spikes we see around the edges of WoE zone.

Yeah, I'd like to see some of the gargoyles be background, and others mobs. Walk past one, poke it. "...I guess we're fi--OH CRAP RED EYES RUN!" Especially if it is instanced so it can change every time.

Or I guess they could be nocturnal like a certain old TV franchise.

[Hyan]

If they can make the environment change somehow everytime you enter, it should last interesting long like salvage and nyzul did.

[Araelus]

"Environment" reminded me, someone elsewhere made the offhand comment the sky in Walk of Echoes resembles a Cloister background view, when they were making maps of the zone. Would be interesting if there are random double weather effects, instead of the predictable double Dark(or Light) we're used to in Dynamis/Einherjar/Limbus.

(Cue BLM QQing when it's double earth I guess.)

[Pikarya]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what the hell is this?

http://imgshack.info/images/wri3x5k280eqyti7uaj.png
http://imgshack.info/images/3v7ngknq0vmy1lcf1bdy.png
http://imgshack.info/images/ezd0hcsg717k7jr7zmc.png

[Gwynplaine]

Clearly that is the walk of echos, which is why it's in the "walk of echos" thread.

[Pikarya]

Clearly that is the walk of echos, which is why it's in the "walk of echos" thread.

If thats "clearly" Walk of Echoes [S]. Then why the hell does it look like its in an area similar to Fort Karugo-Narugo [S].

[Valkrish]

obviously not a soccer field.

[Spira]

I'd very much like for Walk of Echoes to NOT be instanced, but a free roaming area, but the more I look at whats available the higher the likelihood I see of it being instanced only..

heres the map of the zone (charted from exploring dats)

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9057/19537pt2.jpg

Its made up of 16 different 'islands' and 1 battlefield 'island'. If it were a free roaming area, I could see it being like a maze of islands and portals, but the islands are all pretty small. it doesn't make too much sense to fragment it as such..

so I got to thinking..
having an end-game area be used for instances isn't such a far fetched idea. ToAU did it with Alzadaal after all - 4 alzadaal areas became Salvage zones...

so it came down to 3 instanced possibilities to me..
-low manned (up to 6 members)
-middle manned (7-18)
-high manned (19+) content.

The arena part of the zone in all 3 possibilities were the same to me. it will be used as a battlefield area, just like Nyzul's top floor for Alexander BC, and probably for an epic battle in WotG too, maybe final battle (with Lady Lilith?).

For low manned content, WoE could be like Nyzul, having multiple floors to go through and different objectives. This could work, since there are 16 floor designs they could use... how they'd make use of these floors would be interesting to see though. However, I also feel like MMM is already WotGs answer to low-manned (and random objective) content, so this seemed somewhat unlikely to me.

For middle manned content, i started making a comparison to older middle-manned content like Salvage and Limbus. The possibility is there. The area could be split into 4 paths, each with 4 floors and clear goals and a unique formula to play with.. but the way I look at middle-manned content, anything that already uses up to an alliance qualifies... and WotG does in fact have some content put out at this level already... Doomvoid BCs, SCNM battles.. Theres also a possibility that they throw in more middleman content within Everbloom/Ruhotz/Ghoyu's zones.. this has higher possibility than low-man i think..

Finally, high-manned content. I think this would be the biggest likelihood for the zones use. 4 different paths with 4 floors each, or 16 different islands to enter, it could work like Einherjar in that players choose a room and fight in it. maybe each island comes with its own mobs and bosses.. This would make the most sense to me.. as WotG as yet shows no signs of any other areas exhibiting high-manned content (high-manned is basically >18 member content. Zilart had Dynamis, CoP had Dynamis, ToA had Einherjar)... and Campaign doesn't really count. It also highly depends on how the other unreleased zones pan out... Beaucedine, Xarca, Castle Zvahl and so on..

To be honest tho, WoE looks the most like Hazhalm testing grounds. It has a 16 separate island areas, as well as 1 BC arena looking area.. and an entrance lobby (island 'attached' to the one labeled 'Battlefield?')... and we know how in Einherjar its not really instanced, everything happens within the same zone. This could be how Walk of Echoes pans out...

I do look forward to seeing what WoE has to offer anyway. seems like it'd be really fun.

[6souls]

this may be a hint towards accessing WoE

Treasures of Aht Urghan has been upgraded substantially, I think. Wings of the Goddess has yet to receive a system like ZNMs, Nyzul Isle or Einherjar, where many people can work together towards great rewards. How does the future look regarding this?

Ogawa: There is something planned for after the missions are complete, but they are progressing at a somewhat slow pace, so I think it will be a while.

Will it be tied to the missions?

Ogawa: The area will be difficult to get to if you don’t complete the missions.

So, like how Tu’Lia is for Rise of the Zilart?

Ogawa: Yes, like that. I must apologize to the Battle Team, because they can’t do anything until things progress far enough. You’ll have to wait on that being implemented for the time being.

JPButton � Game Watch Developer Team Interview (Part 2)

[Araelus]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what the hell is this?

Looks like the Taru's version of the Nazca Lines.

What an odd design. Where have I seen that before?

[TummieGaruda]

I'd very much like for Walk of Echoes to NOT be instanced, but a free roaming area, but the more I look at whats available the higher the likelihood I see of it being instanced only..

heres the map of the zone (charted from exploring dats)

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9057/19537pt2.jpg

Its made up of 16 different 'islands' and 1 battlefield 'island'. If it were a free roaming area, I could see it being like a maze of islands and portals, but the islands are all pretty small. it doesn't make too much sense to fragment it as such..

From what you said and from what I've seen (I've been trying to map the zone for a few weeks now), I think that it's going to be more like 4 tiers with each Tier having 4 Islands. I think it will have more of a flow like Limbus with 18 members and an objective on each island with a boss on the last island. The one labeled battlefield looks like an entry way/lobby similar to how limbus is.

[Rocl]

What's with the random Hydra >.>

[Araelus]

It's for scale if I remember correctly.

[Spira]

yes.. its to indicate the scale of the area..

ive not really explored the zone that much, but granted that i havent been able to find any repetition within the zones dat, it seems unlikely that the area is instanced, and will in fact be handled like limbus/einherjar... (einherjar is probably not instanced at all, but since all the rooms look the same, no one can tell / they're interchangeably used )

if it were used like limbus, well.. 4 paths (each with 4 floors) would seem too little, and they'd face overcrowding eventually...

so I'm leaning towards 16 different 'choices' but perhaps 4 paths with 4 tiers in each (like path A1 > A2 > A3 > A4...)
I honestly hope it gets better than Einherjar's random zergfest.. cos thats like, totally uncreative.
The complexity of some islands is interesting and it could be used to make the event special by making use of the environment...

im still inclined to believe that the battlefield looking island will be the arena for the final mission battlefield for WotG, because expansion mission final battles tend to be held in exclusive/exotic battlefield locations.
Celestial Nexus is only used once for ZM, Empyreal Paradox was used for Promathia (and Apocalypse Nigh, which is an exception, i think.. because it adds to mission progress but is a quest.. and was tacked on AFTER the missions were 'officially' complete). Nyzul Isles top floor (where the astral candy sits) is exclusive to ToA M44 too (for now)...
Basically, i think the idea of the special battlefield is that if you're doing the final mission battlefield there, it should be your first time in that battlefield, which kinda adds to the perception/grandness/excitement of final battles, perhaps

[Hyan]

Hopefully they'll make new boss models if it's a boss based event.. would be refreshing too :D

[TummieGaruda]

What puzzles me is that battlefield area on the left... I've explored it and it looks kind of wierd...

Here is the area I am focusing on right now:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...0Echos/map.jpg

Here's the entrance to the big Circular Area
Battlefield Entrance

Here's the battlefield area itself:
Battlefield

And to show the massive scale of the Battle Arena, here's an overhead picture. If you look closely you can see the top of my taru's head in the center.
Overhead View

[Spira]

by weird do you mean like how it the hallway ends abruptly, at the edge of the 2nd floor?
and on the '1st' floor, is basically an arena with metal gates at 4 cardinal directions.. where it obviously looks like a place to fight stuff...?

this reminds me of 2 things.. and im making things up here...

1) Ultimecia and the final boss fight in FFVIII. Say you start off on the first floor, and the final boss, say Lady Lilith (i'm assuming this is the final mission BC arena, the comparision with Ultimecia here is just too coincidental then) is standing on top, preaching BS to your party before the start of battle.

subdivided...
a) She will then flap her wings and floating down into the arena and initiate combat with you..

b) The battle will have a few parts. She could be standing above, rain magic down on you but you cant target her, whilst she summons a bunch of minions from the gates below to fight you. Once you're done with them, then she floats down into the arena.

2) Diabolos fight in the Shrouded Maw.

Perhaps there is meant to be a throne, or flooring on 'Lv2', where the boss will sit and talk shit to you... but in the course of the battle, the floor my degrade, get destroyed or give way.. and you'll plummet to the 1st level where the boss may summon minions through the gates.. For this to be done i think floors will have to you effects/textures/mobile objects.. because they arent permanent... just like the tiles that disappear in Diabolos fight...

[TummieGaruda]

b) The battle will have a few parts. She could be standing above, rain magic down on you but you cant target her, whilst she summons a bunch of minions from the gates below to fight you. Once you're done with them, then she floats down into the arena.

This seems most likely from what I see. It almost has a feel of 5-1 against the Skele mobs in Qui'Bay Arena where the skeletons come from all directions. I think Lillith will probably just preach and trash talk from the upper level as you said while mobs come at you from the 3 drawbridges. Once they are defeated she comes down and the main fight begins. Also, there is what appears to be a lower level kind of moat around main floor. It would be pretty sadistic if SE put some high level Demons down there and you can fall off the ledge to your doom.

The arena floor is on the right, the pit area that surrounds the battle floor is on the left:
Battlefield Pit?

Also that ledge/hallway has some pretty fancy carpet so, yeah it really would appear to be an area where Lady Lillith would watch over battles..in fact here's how I see it:

Enter Lady Lilith - Let the trash talking commence

Over the shoulder view of the battlefield from the ledge.
Lilith Looks down at the battlefield