Deputies: Kitten Found Stuffed Inside Marijuana Bong

[EckoGecko]

all this arguing over a kitty cat.

a fucking kitty cat. jesus christ.

[Viena]

I think brain size and structure should give you a good idea if a creature has self-awareness of itself...its a higher level of conscienceness (spelling...god awful.) for instance, a dog, cat, bird, bee, mouse, cockroach, etc...isnt able to reason...

If your statements were accurate, I should assume that elephants are much smarter than you are.

[GeneJackit]

If your statements were accurate, I should assume that elephants are much smarter than you are.

Self-awareness =/= intelligence....amirite?


http://elephant.elehost.com/About_El...the_brain.html

important detail:

"However, in proportion to the size of the body, the elephant brain is smaller than the human brain."

[Pikarya]

If your statements were accurate, I should assume that elephants are much smarter than you are.

Sadly, its probably true.

[OzzofAsura]

His statements haven't made sense for a few pages now. Once again, changing the subject over and over.

What I asked before was partially sarcastic and partially to get your "opinion". How do we know every animal's state of self-awareness? You should not presume so much, just because we have a higher level of reasoning (probably) than most animals.

Edit: Self-awareness cannot = intelligence because intelligence is subjective. How intelligent (in a quantifiable manner of speaking) do you have to be, to then be self-aware?

Wow, this has gone too far. Fuck that fucking pothead.

[zoobernut]

If you want to see how much debate there is surrounding self awareness and consciousness go read the Teleporting Information thread.

The fact is that you are trying to say that humans are more self aware or more conscious and above other animals based on things that we do not fully understand and are debated constantly such as brain structure where consciousness even comes from and how a random series of electrical responses in the nerves of our brain amalgamate to a sentient being.

[GeneJackit]

I love that me responding, challenging assumptions, and asking questions is changing subjects...im the one who just started by saying "5 years in prison is too long for a person killing an animal."


The self-awarness issue came up b/c zoober said that "every creature lives for its own existence, and nothing else" (paraphrasing) and I think its natural to ask if this applies to creatures w/ no awareness of what they are....

[TheShadyMan]

That's ingenuity? Put together a metal piece with some metal scraps, about a foot of solder, and a butane lighter, and we'll talk about ingenuity.

[Viena]

important detail:

"However, in proportion to the size of the body, the elephant brain is smaller than the human brain."

You never said anything about proportions, but in that case, a mouse would be way more self aware than you are.

And I've a question, how would one ampirically measure another being's self awareness? The mirror test is purely based on sight, while self awareness is something that seems quite independent from one's senses.

[Silenka]

This interview asks and answers every question about animal consciousness and self-awareness that has been asked in this thread (or at least the replies I skimmed over). Coincidentally I just read it today...

What Makes You Uniquely "You"? | Learning | DISCOVER Magazine

Please give it a read, the title is misleading.

[zoobernut]

The self-awarness issue came up b/c zoober said that "every creature lives for its own existence, and nothing else" (paraphrasing) and I think its natural to ask if this applies to creatures w/ no awareness of what they are....

It has gone beyond the whole bong and cat issue but I just want to point out that every counter argument you make is based on huge assumptions that cannot be proven and have not been shown at all.

The bold text is an example of what I am talking about. It is ok to ask questions regarding existence and the connection between animals however you are making a huge assumption about self awareness and nervous system structure and how they relate to each other and that no other animal has any level of self awareness.

Again we do not fully understand what makes humans self aware and how our consciousness is formed how do you expect us to be able to tell the level of any other animals self awareness beyond flawed surface tests such as the mirror test? Like it was said self awareness is separate from senses.

At the post above that was an interesting article, it was less pertinent to this conversation towards the end when he starts talking about robots and artificial brains. However at the beginning there were a couple very interesting points that he made, the first being that we do not fully understand consciousness and how it works and that scientists are still debating what creates that feeling in our own brains, and second that it is believed that there are several levels of consciousness and self awareness beyond just our own experience of the world.