"Where Is Our Radical Youth?" Washington Post Op Ed

[GeneJackit]

Another point, w/ Democrats in control of the White House and congress, shouldnt this show that the radicals are in charge now? So, radicals dont really oppose radicals? I mean, when you are arguing if you want to spend $1 tril vs $1.5 tril it doesnt really matter lol. Politically, I fall in the libertarian spectrum, cant stand govt republican or democrat, but w/ Obama encouraging and promoting his HUGE govt agenda it looks to me like there was some kinda revolution w/o anyone knowing...or necessarily wanting lol

good or bad, if the dems get what they want the whole nation is gonna look radically different in 4-8 years.

[Elvis]

Both parties suck balls. Dems and Repubs. I hate this back and forth between shit and shitty.

But yea, damn hippies.

@Kuya

Don't take this the wrong way but read the Unabomber's manifesto lol (it's on wiki). He basically said similar stuff.

He was kinda insane and all, but the manifesto was very interesting.

[Kuya]

Another point, w/ Democrats in control of the White House and congress, shouldnt this show that the radicals are in charge now? So, radicals dont really oppose radicals? I mean, when you are arguing if you want to spend $1 tril vs $1.5 tril it doesnt really matter lol. Politically, I fall in the libertarian spectrum, cant stand govt republican or democrat, but w/ Obama encouraging and promoting his HUGE govt agenda it looks to me like there was some kinda revolution w/o anyone knowing...or necessarily wanting lol

good or bad, if the dems get what they want the whole nation is gonna look radically different in 4-8 years.

This is the kind of distorted perception Elvis is alluding to. What kind of person thinks that the Democrats are radical?

edit: God damn hippies.

edit: no wonder there's little movement, if people think something like the democrats are radical, it inevitably means they settle for less

[Isiolia]

Seems to me that the author is just focused on people expressing themselves in the same way that they did 20-50+ years ago.

Last couple paragraphs or so admit as much. That this generation will go to the internet, rather than publish a book. Is that -really- a surprise?


Perhaps a different angle is...if the radicalism from the 60s and 70s and all was -so- relevant and -so- influential...wouldn't more of it have been passed down to the children of those college students? Or maybe it's that it has been, and is now considered mainstream behavior, like how once-rebellious music is now "classic rock".

[ZarakiKujata]

In addition to my/our generation having nothing we really need to be upset about(until now really), I think part of it is that the radicals of the previous periods are the ones teaching us in universities and since there is clearly a cyclical nature to society's political orientations part of it could be that growing up in the aftermath of the Reagan Revolution and being taught by former radicals we've rebelled against them by being more conservative, as shown by that UCLA survey. I guess the author is missing that there can be leftwing OR rightwing radicals.

Another point that should be made is that perhaps we don't need to pursue more 'radical' political beliefs outside of the classroom because the very reading material given out by most professors is fairly liberal. There was another UCLA study like 3-4 years ago that showed something like 75% of the colleges in this country have professors that teach Marx as a credible political theory.

I would also disagree with the articles assertion that Thousand Splendid Suns is further proof of it. Sure the book is widely read but its nowhere near as mainstream as Twilight or Harry Pottter, and I'm sure the books from the 60s that he gave were read as widely as Thousand Splendid Sun and Kite Runner are now.

[GeneJackit]

I commented this to Guartz once, and it was that as a society declines, the populace begins to turn to more introverted and personal methods of satisfaction. They care less for bettering the world around them, and more for bettering themselves, they care less about standards, morals, principles, and become more hedonistic. I say that what was once an idealistic but pragmatic attempt to take control of not just oneself, but one's government, state, and world has given way to materialism, commercialism, and excess. What better examples do we have than the seeming drop in quality in media that used to represent dissenting voice? Music, literature, and the seemingly impending death of the newspaper? Who do we concern ourselves with? Philosophers and politicians, or Hollywood stars? How do we fix our problems? With moral support and self determination, or pills? What does sex mean to us now? A method of bonding with others, or a method of selling merchandise? What kind of economy represents us? An economy of people who honestly believe in the good nature of capitalism, or financial vultures seeking to make money out of other people's money with no regard for whom they destroy?

I think we know what's wrong.

This is a fascinating, well described point...I agree w/ it for the most part. My only quibble would be that I dont think it is bad or wrong to care about and focus on your own life, and of those immediately around you, like family. Honestly, I think it is our own hubris to think that we can influance large swaths of populations beyond our own enclaves. If everyone took care of themselves, and those near them then I think a lot of things could be solved. Of course, it isnt wrong to try and better society as a whole...but you can really only approach it on a small scale and work out instead of trying to focus on the large scale and hitting as much as you can...you are only one person after all

[GeneJackit]

This is the kind of distorted perception Elvis is alluding to. What kind of person thinks that the Democrats are radical?

edit: God damn hippies.

edit: no wonder there's little movement, if people think something like the democrats are radical, it inevitably means they settle for less

Ok, I agree...democrat =/= radical...didnt mean it in a disparaging way. But, i think it is more than fair to say that what they are proposing to solve our problems are vastly different that what usually goes on...It is shifting our nation to more like an EU democratic socialist nation....Personally, I think that is God Awful, and I want to govt out of my life as much as possible, but hey, we are a nation of voters and if thats what people want they'll vote it in

[Absolutely Virtue]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who rolled his eyes at the suggestion that the Democrats in office are radical. Or even very liberal, for that matter. But I honestly had no intention of turning this into a partisan debate. I was talking about the kids, maaaaaaaaan.

[Kuya]

To make a quick comment on what some posters said; i don't think rapping about bitches and hos is a change to conservatism in order to rebel against the previous "more liberal" generation, nor it is a "natural progression" of the liberalism of the baby boomers.

edit: consider the difference between the rap that used to be a scathing critique of the social reality of african americans/blacks, and compare that to the current popular themes of our generation. Such as the fine song "Superman that Ho".

eedit: yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Elvis]

Yea, Dems are just as bad. Example: Neo-liberal economics, Alliance for Progress, Latin America, blah blah.

I think we have a sense of our 'domestic' prosperity and live somewhat sheltered lives. I mean, we all have our own set of problems that are challenging to us based on our own threshold of challenge/pain/happiness.

But like, I don't see any sort of correlation between our life in the 'bubble' versus how we, for example, behave in other countries. Or the support we give to countries that do not espouse our domestic values.

And even that comes with a caveat. That it took lots of trial and error and painfully slow struggle to obtain the freedoms we often take for granted.

Ethnic cleansing/genocide of indigenous population of North America -> slavery -> discrimination against women -> discrimination against blacks -> blah blah. And we've come a long way since then.

Sorta of weird how we put so much criticism on other parts of the world for their 'backwardsness' without putting into context their behavior with respect to their own regional politics/history/socio-economic variables. All that influences behavior.

[Palin]

Honestly current generational studies don't support this. Its widely known that Generation X was extremely apathetic towards politics, however the Millienials are showing to be extremely social active so far, and are predicted to be the most socially active generation since the Baby Boomers.

As has been mentioned, things have changed from the 60s, and buying books isn't a way you can measure this anymore. With the invention of blogs, youtube, podcasts, and internet groups, books are not the most fundamental way to spread a message now. College students who want to be active can simply go online and do the majority of their message-mongering now.

This guy's looking at archaic methods and trying to draw correlates. Correlation doesn't equal causation, and this isn't the 1960's anymore. Actual generational literature does not support his hypothesis.

[quannum]

YouTube - Doug Stanhope - This Generation Sucks

[Elvis]

The 60s were really a breaking point. Vietnam/Civil rights/etc.

You had a mass grassroots movement for a domestic issue AND a controversial and unpopular war. So there was so much collusion between movements and a general feeling of revolution.

[Kuya]

This is a fascinating, well described point...I agree w/ it for the most part. My only quibble would be that I dont think it is bad or wrong to care about and focus on your own life, and of those immediately around you, like family. Honestly, I think it is our own hubris to think that we can influance large swaths of populations beyond our own enclaves. If everyone took care of themselves, and those near them then I think a lot of things could be solved. Of course, it isnt wrong to try and better society as a whole...but you can really only approach it on a small scale and work out instead of trying to focus on the large scale and hitting as much as you can...you are only one person after all

I have a point to retort that i think ties itself well to your contention, and that is that "focusing on the family", in US culture, no longer means an extended system of familial relationships stemming from parents, to grand parents, to cousins, to aunts and even the most distant. You no longer live close to them and i bet most of us no longer possess those strong connections that much older generations used to have with their extended families.

What we now consider a family is essentially a partitioned element of what was once a family. It is simply now a man and a woman and perhaps one or two children, whereas a family could live in the same area composing of even second cousins. What do our youth most desire now? To help the family and assist it? Or to become independent of their families and leave? What is a common insult on the internet and on these forums? We make fun of the image of someone living in their parent's basement. Ignoring the basement part as an exaggeration, it represents to me a radical change in view from the extended family as a positive, to the extended family as a negative and hindrance to success and independence. Then comes my second point, whom do you think is less introverted and more concerned with his world, someone who prefers the company of a large family enclave, or someone who's vision of a family is a wife and two kids? I consider that one of these represents a much more segregated mentality.

[GeneJackit]

Honestly current generational studies don't support this. Its widely known that Generation X was extremely apathetic towards politics, however the Millienials are showing to be extremely social active so far, and are predicted to be the most socially active generation since the Baby Boomers.

As has been mentioned, things have changed from the 60s, and buying books isn't a way you can measure this anymore. With the invention of blogs, youtube, podcasts, and internet groups, books are not the most fundamental way to spread a message now. College students who want to be active can simply go online and do the majority of their message-mongering now.

This guy's looking at archaic methods and trying to draw correlates. Correlation doesn't equal causation, and this isn't the 1960's anymore. Actual generational literature does not support his hypothesis.

completely agree....technology has changed everything...i would argue that the author of the article is greatly out of touch w/ younger kids and their "radical" nature

I would like to say that I think kids are being greatly disserved by being spoon fed liberal agitprop from kindergarten on...we arent training anyone to be free thinkers. Our idea of a "free thinker" is someone who agrees w/ us. So we, technically, not giving the opportunity for kids to become radicals, b/c to become a radical you have to rebel against the status quo...and i would make the argument that the status quo now-a-days is definately left-leaning at the very least

I would eat my hat w/o salt if the author wanted any right-wing radicals to develop in opposition to the left-wing culture.

[Olo401]

Oh I can say the radical youth is there and they are active. However, it's a different kind of active, propelled by the internet particularly social networking.

It's kinda weird too, since I really didn't see much more activity when I was out on the road this past year canvassing and registering new voters. The demographics had shifted - there were many more people older than I beating the pavement this year than in 2004. In fact I didn't really notice it until a few weeks ago when I started really getting into the flow of using Facebook. Many of the people I know from school, various jobs, around town, etc. were VERY active, constantly communicating and passing information around and commenting on the news of the day. I dug back a few months on some of their notes before the election and it was even more congested with this thing and that..

It's as if the physical protest movement was left to those who were there to experience it in the past, and this new electronic movement grew into its own. Neither is truly radical in the traditional sense, but both are large and organized and kickin' major ass.

[Absolutely Virtue]

Gene,

I will bite. How are we left, exactly? Are you talking about Bush/Obama nationalizing the means of production in this country? Or are you talking about socially left?

[Kuya]

The US is right-wing, relatively speaking. If you mean that it's left-wing according to classical liberalism, which is in effect the foundation of the modern world, then yea, you could say it is, but the right-wing to that would be monarchism and theocracy.

Honestly current generational studies don't support this. Its widely known that Generation X was extremely apathetic towards politics, however the Millienials are showing to be extremely social active so far, and are predicted to be the most socially active generation since the Baby Boomers.

As has been mentioned, things have changed from the 60s, and buying books isn't a way you can measure this anymore. With the invention of blogs, youtube, podcasts, and internet groups, books are not the most fundamental way to spread a message now. College students who want to be active can simply go online and do the majority of their message-mongering now.

This guy's looking at archaic methods and trying to draw correlates. Correlation doesn't equal causation, and this isn't the 1960's anymore. Actual generational literature does not support his hypothesis.

I'm being a bit of a pessimist. However, consider me ignorant, and explain how this new revolutionary internet culture works and how it translates into action, if you wouldn't mind.

[Absolutely Virtue]

I'm being a bit of a pessimist. However, consider me ignorant, and explain how this new revolutionary internet culture works and how it translates into action, if you wouldn't mind.

Tiamat pops, LS member posts on forums/sends text messages, players log in, fire crystal drops.

[Jefe]

The "radical youth" is in the closet.