Offhand Weapons

[Howard Roark]

got a few questions that I didn't think would be properly addressed in a what's better format, but the long and short of the inquiry is this:

what constitutes a good offhand weapon? and how does this affect ws damage if at all? (can compare single hit vs multi hit ws)


case in point, I am missing a sirocco and don't have the money for 2M on Blau considering the number of jobs I use, and a 2M dagger I'd only use on THF and maybe NIN in limbus (I'd never merit on NIN on birds) when I'm saving for Usukane first (yeah... priorities)

I'm currently mainhanding Harpe, which has high delay, so I'd like a low delay offhand, something to use til I can find sirocco timer/help to kill

My offhand dagger is kidney dagger but I'm guessing the crits only affect offhand swings, and the low base dmg makes me thing a slightly higher delay dagger like stylet might be ok, unless I go grab a hornet needle in the meantime


I feel like I'm guessing though, I'd like to understand what makes a good offhand dagger (and please, given that I am lacking a sirocco, no x's knife or p harpe suggestions etc)

[Tordall]

The Obvious answer: The one that lets you do the most damage when paired with your main hand weapon.


As for what does that best, either look for something with really high DoT or secondary affects (+acc, atk, or +stats).

[arshesney]

Offhand weapon should help build tp and keeping up your DoT, "perdu" weapons are just awesome because of their low delay and hidden bonuses.
Stylet might be an alternative: delay is low enough and it offers some stat bonuses, plus it is relatively cheap.
If you get to play THF often you should aim for a Sirocco, Kreutzet might be a bitch and tedious to camp, but that dagger is just too good.

[el_tio]

Yeah, your hunches about Kidney Dagger are pretty correct. It's horrible for your level. I see the gist of your post tho/the idea why you might use a Kidney Dagger--thinking the crits make up for the damage it does. But think of it this way--when you swing the kidney dagger you're wasting time that you could be swinging a better weapon, when the stats don't make up for what you gain on your mainhand.

But you don't want to sacrifice your offhand to enhance the mainhand weapon--at least too much. Certainly not by using a dagger that does 2/3rds the damage of affordable daggers at your level, for a maybe 4% boost to damage (if both hands get the crit+). Of course when I say 2/3rds gimpage that's only on one hand, since harpe's a good choice. The combo averaged together would do let's say 5/6th of normal dagger combos (slightly better, since you spend more time swinging the good DOT mainhand weapon since kidney's a lower delay). Kidney Dagger isn't comparable to other weapon choices.

The guy above said it pretty concisely, "high DoT or secondary affects", but you should also consider whether the better DOT weapon is being slowed down by the other weapon or not. For example, Blau/Misericorde +1 is a better combo than Harpe/Blau, even though Harpe is a better dagger than Misericorde +1. Because with Harpe you end up spending too much time swinging the lower DPS weapon, where Miser +1 lets you swing the better dagger more frequently. This is also why Blau/SK is such a nice combo, because you swing the amazing blau so frequently with the quick SK, not to mention SK's very nice DOT, combined with enhanced TP gain from having such a low delay combo.

For practical advice, I'd say either go with Behemoth Knife +1 or Jambiya until you can get a s.kukri, then ditch the harpe. And Kreutzet's really easy, easily duoable/soloable with a full tactics pearl to call a good NPC. The hard part is actually getting to see him.

[Arthars]

need decent D in general and then the order goes:

Attack 1-2, 2-3 times(sorry kraken is no decent D) weapons that you job have a decent skill in >>>>>>>>>> useful stats like dex, str, att or acc >>>>>> delay >>>>>>>> i dont know

you can go for a Mkris for farming because it will greatly raise your damage output overtime. I even use it for stuffs like Nyzul pre-boss to speed up the killings in between floors. (chucked ridill to storage because i got love torque and eating meat now)

For HNMing, if your not /war or /sam for some reason, a blau dolch is the best available option you have. If you decide to sell harpe and main hand blau dolch, then s.kukri will be a good offhand.

before you get a s.kukri, and dont feel like buying another dagger for temp usage, then THF knife will work too lmao no one will ever ever blame you.

[Ultimagi]

I think it would be worthwhile for you to camp a Sirocco Kukri. I've helped my friends get it before, it didn't seem like that bad of a Notorious Monster, one of them actually soloed it. But if you can't get your hands on a good offhand weapon, maybe you should try a different subjob. Unless you absolutely need Utsusemi, Ninja isn't really doing much for you.

[dawdr]

You'd be hard-pressed to find a post-68 dagger that isn't an improvement over your current offhand, really. If you were really going for ultra-cheap, then the Magnet Knife is probably about 5-10k on your server and works just fine. If you're really intent on keeping the Harpe I'd lean towards Misericorde +1 myself, since it's pretty fast, has reasonable DPS, and has a little dexterity to boot.

To me personally, Kidney Dagger is on par with Triple Knife. These two are my red flag daggers, that show the person is either very confused or trying to confuse other people. One of the most disheartening things I've seen in game was a Thief that showed up with Pahluwan Khazagand, Heart Snatcher, and Kidney Dagger to a merit party. Blood shot from my eyes.

I think it would be worthwhile for you to camp a Sirocco Kukri. I've helped my friends get it before, it didn't seem like that bad of a Notorious Monster, one of them actually soloed it. But if you can't get your hands on a good offhand weapon, maybe you should try a different subjob. Unless you absolutely need Utsusemi, Ninja isn't really doing much for you.

For most things, Ninja is the subjob of choice for Thief. You're going to want this for merits (provided your gear is anything above lower-mediocre) Limbus, Dynamis, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, and anything with a blinkable AOE. Warrior is what you sub when you're fighting something that you don't have to worry about getting hit by and can melee, Samurai is what you use when you can't. You can zerg with Dark Knight subbed provided you've got someone willing to heal you, and you can do surprising damage subbing Monk in the proper settings. Dancer can be alright for solo purposes but it slows down your kill speed which usually does not help things.

Ninja wins most of the time because it is extremely versatile. 20% increase in your normal melee damage, an additional swing on all weapon skills, an additional guaranteed hit on all Sneak and Trick Attacks, and increased TP gain are the offensive gains. Defensively you get both of the Utsusemi spells, which provide the best defense you're going to get as a Thief, and having this defense allows you to fully utilize Collaborator/Accomplice because there is no downside to taking hate. Rather than just supporting one side or another, Ninja adds to everything Thief does, and that is why we use it more often than others.

[Chen]

someone in my ls was saying someone on BG had /math'd out blau/sk to be better than blau/x's, anyone know if SK really going to be the better offhand for thf?

[Howard Roark]

Oh believe me, Sirocco is definitely on my to do list, THF sat at 69 for quite some time in me resisting moving forward without it, I even levelled SAM to 75 instead while I waited for an opportunity to camp SK.

By the way, my THF is currently 71 (6k to 72) and due to my playtime I typically just salvage it up on my black belt monk, and XP stuff when I have extra time. THF knife offhand will be fine for general use but for XP I think it'd be pretty lol. Gonna go with stylet til THF is 75 and I can try soloing it with tactics pearl, I can't think of another job I'd feel as comfortable soloing it with, except perhaps my NIN

I agree 100% with the blau/SK combo, and perhaps I should just suck it up and blow 2M on a job I reall ywon't use thaaaaat much But, yeah, I wasn't sure how much the base damge of my offhand weapon affected mainhand WS damage, was trying to keep delay low (like SK's 150 delay) and really didn't wnat to offhand a behe+1 and take 2 years to WS

[Khajit]

Wouldn't it be x/blau instead? blau/x mean the thf has thier knives on backwards.

[Chen]

sorry yes, either way blau will be used, but SK v X's?

[Howard Roark]

well in all fairness if SK is standing in my way I hardly think I'll alk into an X's or P harpe given the use that my THF will see. I know a lot of other THFs who have been waiting for them whereas I would merely save it from rotting if no one needed

[Aragon of Odin]

Oh believe me, Sirocco is definitely on my to do list, THF sat at 69 for quite some time in me resisting moving forward without it, I even levelled SAM to 75 instead while I waited for an opportunity to camp SK.

Isn't it soloable by Nin/Dnc or even Nin/Thf with an NPC? Time spent leveling another job you probably could have by now. Although I guess Sam > SK, so can't really blame you for leveling it

[Howard Roark]

to be honest I hadn't considered soloing it, given the difficulty I had with me as WHM, and my friend as THF on it

the difference between NIN tanking it vs THF was really noticeable, in favor of the THF



also, is it possible to dismiss NPC while engaged? would make it much easier

[zard1977]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-...ght-thief.html

[Ultimagi]

For most things, Ninja is the subjob of choice for Thief. You're going to want this for merits (provided your gear is anything above lower-mediocre) Limbus, Dynamis, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, and anything with a blinkable AOE. Warrior is what you sub when you're fighting something that you don't have to worry about getting hit by and can melee, Samurai is what you use when you can't. You can zerg with Dark Knight subbed provided you've got someone willing to heal you, and you can do surprising damage subbing Monk in the proper settings. Dancer can be alright for solo purposes but it slows down your kill speed which usually does not help things.

I'm not debating the general all-around usefulness of subbing Ninja on Thief. I'm saying with no appropriate offhand weapon, there's no reason to use Dual Wield over other job traits available from other subs. Just because everyone uses it, doesn't make it right.

Thief won't get hit at all in merit parties unless the other melees really suck. For certain areas of Limbus, Dynamis, and Einherjar, Utsusemi is a must because you will get hit with area attacks. For the other areas, and Nyzul Isle and Salvage too, if you don't need Utsusemi, you don't need to sub Ninja. Other subjobs have more to offer.

[Thorny]

to be honest I hadn't considered soloing it, given the difficulty I had with me as WHM, and my friend as THF on it

the difference between NIN tanking it vs THF was really noticeable, in favor of the THF



also, is it possible to dismiss NPC while engaged? would make it much easier

EXTREMELY easy solo as nin/dnc without npc provided you have capped ninjutsu and a halfass evasion build.. as far as blau/sk vs x's/blau, i posted some math the last time it was brought up and blau/sk is only better in unreasonable situations(SA/TA never paired with ws, never disengaged waiting for next pull, etc).. in a slow merit party where you're constantly engaged because you can't clear all your mobs it can win.

[konoko]

before i got Blau/Sirocco i used Blau/Misericorde+1, and i have to say Misericorde+1 is a REALLY nice offhand, probly the best you can buy if you cant justify a blau, its easily better then a stylet, and harpe is a good mainhand choice, but i would probly lean more to a magnet if your worried about cost.

I myself would rather Main a 5k Magnet and offhand a 300k Miseri+1, then a 500k Harpe Mainhand and offhanding anything other then Miseri+1, if i didnt have BD or SK

[Tonberrry]

Blau/SK is the typical best dagger combo you'll ever see

i use Ermine's Tail/SK, if i had my gil back for almost everything id use blau/sk again, for tanking ermines is great with the8eva

[el_tio]

to be honest I hadn't considered soloing it, given the difficulty I had with me as WHM, and my friend as THF on it

the difference between NIN tanking it vs THF was really noticeable, in favor of the THF



also, is it possible to dismiss NPC while engaged? would make it much easier

WHM + THF duo was pretty easy. My thf was 72 at the time I duoed it so I didn't even have Ni. It's pretty key tho to wait until he's done using Stormwind before you cast so it doesn't get wiped again.