RNG merits question.

[Tsuko_Asura]

In lieu of getting into a pissing contest over who displays the least presentable methods of defending a particular ideology, would you care to address a my assessment?

[Shin Volcano]

It's a fight over personal preferance, but when people attack other methods it's offensive, Stealth is not a good invesment, it does help, but you're better off with other choices..but as i even stated before the "Stealth is godly and i fully merit it" posts it's all what you want to do, i personaly have tried it and it wasn't worth it, it's not about saving money it's about what acttualy works better over time.

[Tsuko_Asura]

So you adjusted your damage output to allow your tanks to reestablish the attention of your enemy? Call me crazy, but I'd be inclined to believe that if there was a means to prevent such things from happening, you'd jump at the opportunity to do so. This all seems inadvertently reminiscent of prioritizing your wallet over your productivity, which would subsequently be a direct contradiction to the very fact that you play the class.

[matix]

cant handle the upkeep of ranger, and recycle is supposed to justify that? gg, thread shouda ended long ago

[Tsuko_Asura]

Works better for what, exactly? Saving arrows doesn't increase the rate in which Ixion will die, while Stealth Shot will, albeit indirectly.

[Shin Volcano]

you cannot handle the upkeep of ranger, and recycle is your way to justify that?

What? what else would i put merits into, most of the times what im fighting as rng dosnt live long enough for flashy shot timer to be up to use again, and things that do last a while you don't want to be spaming shots all the time, you want to know why i dont put merits into stleath shot? because i have enough enmity down to not need it....

Novia earring -7 Enmity try to let go of that +2 STR for less hate generated.. if you are worried about hate i'm not sure why you want more damage.

AF2 Legs -2 enmity total of +9 yea! it adds up!

AF2 hat -3 total =12 again, you want hate control? why do you need that full time Wyvrn helm? these are just a few examples...that few peices of gear right there already took care of 1 merit in stealth shot and instead of every 5 minutes it's FULL TIME if i TRULY wanted to...i can get a total of -18-20 Enimity depending on if the fight is a dangerous one Like Khimira for example..and it worked out perfectly. so no, i dont see a reason for a stealth shot, -50 enimity total may seem nice and shiny. but what are you going to do while it's cooling down?

Af2 Feet -3 i if i remember correctly, i'm not taking my set out just to find out..either way Total 14-15 - Enmity full time...need i go on? now that with every shot over time will have a far better impact then your 1 enimity down shot every 5 minutes..

Works better for what, exactly? Saving arrows doesn't increase the rate in which Ixion will die, while Stealth Shot will, albeit indirectly.

You're the only RNG fighting ixion? i'v watched him die quite fast and not one person used stealth shot..explain how it helps, as i recall he will come after you regardless if you let off enough SW but the tanks we had were keeping hate to that point we didnt pull him off them unless we were going nuts. i'm not sure where the problem is other then saving sub-par tanks.


OH yea, another good choice to use THF in the same PT Accomplice/Collabarator =problem solved and no merits used, or hell just Relog unless you're tanking, 2 alternate ways to solve the problem, do i still need stealth shot?

[matix]

other than what the threads been telling you, anything but recycle should probably seem obvious.. recycle only helps yourself, and its only helping you save gil you should already have since you chose to play rng.

stealthy has utility versus only saving gil you should already have budgeted, stealthy can keep you alive longer in critical situations that you cant just die for a hate reset, take for example cerb/khim, how awesome is it when u pull hate around 20% (since if u didnt die yet, your gonna be pretty much battling for VE vs the tanks) then get a GoH/fulm to the face? you fucking love it huh?

unless your fucking full timing cannon shells, stop bitching about ammo, and get something that can be of use to the fight, instead of use to youre wallet, which you seem strapped if you care so god damn much about finding a way to justify recycle's usefulness.

OH yea, another good choice to use THF in the same PT Accomplice/Collabarator =problem solved and no merits used, or hell just Relog unless you're tanking, 2 alternate ways to solve the problem, do i still need stealth shot?

yeah ill just carry a thf with me everywhere i go... spend $12, and bring a thf to waste a pt slot at cerberus! cause you know there is always absolutely a thf at every event always ever and forever. ontop of that do u even know how relogging hate works? you would only lose the same amount of hate that would've dissipated over the time it took you to relog unless the mob tried looking for you and seen your not there; if the mob doesn't know you left(which it wont know unless he tries to go hit you when youve logged out) your not losing any more hate then just not shotting over that period of time

[Shin Volcano]

I'm not even going to bother anymore, you wanna merit that shit go ahead, i have tried/tested/ and done it on most HNMs, stealth shot is a waste and any good RNG who knows the jobs has realized it or will eventually, You may as well start telling WHMS to merit divine magic skill to make there reposes stick better, i already explained There are Smarter ways to control hate and its not about saving fucking GILL hell i make my own damn ammo, i hardly spend much at all, it's a matter of what is more USEFULL over time, Recycle is stealth is not. i really dont care anymore, i rarely die as rng unless it's a wipe or somone MPKs and i certainly don't go nuts shooting khim, but like i said stealth shot is every 5 minutes, if you're constalty shooting, you're already feeding him to much TP which is bad in it self, so either way evenw ithout stealth shot with that small example of a - enimity build you shouldnt have hate issues, i sure as hell didn't dunno wtf you doing wrong.

yeah ill just carry a thf with me everywhere i go... cause there is always absolutely a thf at every event always ever and forever, ontop of that do u even know how relogging hate works? you would only lose the same amount of hate that would've dissipated over the time it took you to relog unless the mob tried looking for you and seen your not there; if the mob doesn't know you left(which it wont know unless he tries to go hit you when youve logged out) your not losing any more hate then just not shotting over that period of time

Not sure, i don't ussualy have hate issues to need to relog, and last i checked a thf is wanted everytime a drop rate is low, you fight HNMs and NMs and not want TH? ok.. thf ussualy sit there waiting till last few % to be there for TH, while he's standing there doing nothing he can Accomplice you to take the pressure off and then HE CAN relog since he wasnt DOING anything, did you read that part clearly? i even bolded it for you to make sure

Seriously..is playing smart none-exsistant anymore? wonder why i can dish out damage and live and not grab hate without Stealth shot yet dumb arguments are still trying to warrent a reason for that semi-useless ability and i'v already proven thru personal expriance that it is a WASTE, so whatever.

[matix]

you miss the point, its the fact its giving you something that can help control hate, and not rely on some other person to collab/cure/raise/get hate from you. play how you want, i really don't care, i just want people who come to this thread to get the wrong idea and upgrade the wrong shit, like recycle.

lets put it this way, stealthy bring something to fight you would normally not have, a way to let loose with far less risk, but u know what you'd normally have? no matter what situation? since ure a rng? AMMO. whats the point to try to justify saving a few, if u still forever will need more ammo anyways?

tdlr; help the fight go smoothly? or (have a chance for it to proc to) help your wallet

[Shin Volcano]

Lol i have no issues controlling hate, i don't know why this is even a debate, all that was a example of what you can do as an alternative to help control hate should it be out of control, i'm not going to sit here and argu over opinions, not everyone merits the same thing, i have my OWN unique playstyle and it has worked fine for me, i dont shoot off barrage and SWs as soon as the fight starts.

There is simply nothing else better to merit after snap shot and flashy shot, stealth helps but is not needed, yes even recycle is not needed, but it does help far better then stealth will but again, RNG didn't get any other spectacular choices after snapshot, BUT this is MY personal referance, i honeslty don't care what people do with there rangers, but i don't like when people pegion hole 1 ability just because they refuse to try other abilites or ways just because it dosn't "look" good,

[matix]

its not about if you have issues controlling it, its about the fact you can DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, instead of sitting there shooting "omg recycle proc that shot" *draw in* *fulm*

There is simply nothing else better to merit after snap shot and flashy shot, stealth helps but is not needed, yes even recycle is not needed, but it does help far better then stealth will but again

see that's where your wrong, and why im here strongly in disagreement, the bolded is very untrue, woopdy do about saving a few bits of ammo, i understand tho, that's just your style, and you like to save gil, fine that's all good, fine, and peachy, but saying it like that is gunna give the wrong impression that recycle is worth upgrading, which its not. for you, apparently yes, that's your style, as you said, but for anyone who's coming in reading this, they need to know that recycle is the worst possible choice out of g2 rng merits, its one thing to say u upgraded it, its another to go preaching like its good, especially versus an ability like stealthy, i just don't want people to think the wrong thing, because this recycle merits thing comes up alot, and its always the same, and unless SE makes some vast change(the recent 100% recycle patch was actually pretty fucking sweet while it lasted) its gunna always be the same

[Spider-Dan]

Drawn-out flamewars and name-calling over three of the worst cat2 merits in the game? Seriously?

Flashy Shot f'ing sucks. You mean if I merit this ability 5 times, every 5 minutes I can (essentially) do what any melee can do with Sneak Attack every 60 seconds, only I take a huge enmity penalty?

Stealth Shot f'ing sucks. How many mobs that matter are going to be slugged for ~2000 damage? What difference does it make when we have two tanks scraping against the enmity cap on any extended fight? And how many mobs are you going to fight for long enough for a 5-minute-recast enmity down to make any real difference?

Recycle f'ing sucks. 5 levels of Recycle gives me the-same-or-less savings than just wearing relic hat.

If:

- Flashy Shot's recast were quartered and there was no enmity penalty
- Stealth Shot's -enmity was a static amount in the -30 to -50 range and additional merits removed a minute of recast
- Recycle was +15% proc rate per merit

...then this argument would be worth having. As it is, all RNG cat2s save one suck so hard that the choice is clear*: 5/5 Snapshot, and whatever the hell you want with the rest because it doesn't f'ing matter.

*I reserve future judgment for KC+Culverin+Recycle builds, which at least have a glimmer of potential usefulness

[Shin Volcano]

its not about if you have issues controlling it, its about the fact you can DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, instead of sitting there shooting "omg recycle proc that shot" *draw in* *fulm*

I have done somthing about it, never had a draw in fulmi, since our tanks could keep hate and our blms or drk can stun properly, i remember i grabed hate once and that's because our tanks switched because one had to log and i went a little nuts and 3 back to back WS what you just said is merly a example of a shitty tank.

see that's where your wrong, and why im here strongly in disagreement, the bolded is very untrue, woopdy do about saving a few bits of ammo, i understand tho, that's just your style, and you like to save gil, fine that's all good, fine, and peachy, but saying it like that is gunna give the wrong impression that recycle is worth upgrading, which its not. for you, apparently yes, that's your style, as you said, but for anyone who's coming in reading this, they need to know that recycle is the worst possible choice out of g2 rng merits,

Wow, i really don't want to get into this, if you think that 5 minute a shot for 20000k merits is a better choice then by all means, go for it, if hate is that much of an issue then it's time to get better tanks. i'm going to stop here because that's just your personal opinion i mean i'v even heard ppl saying cure cast time on white mage is a waste of merits, so it's nothing new to me, yea, id rather keep my arrows then merit a ability ill only get a use out of every 5 minutes for ONE shot.. so tottatly only WS when the timer is up.

its one thing to say u upgraded it, its another to go preaching like its good, especially versus an ability like stealthy, i just don't want people to think the wrong thing, because this recycle merits thing comes up alot, and its always the same, and unless SE makes some vast change(the recent 100% recycle patch was actually pretty fucking sweet while it lasted) its gunna always be the same

There IS nothing wrong with that choice, telling people it's not worth meriting is just being biast and taking people away from somthing that can acttualuy help at all times vs somthing that can slightly help you if your tanks don't know how to keep hate, Recycle does come up alot, i even had a debate with one of our members a while back over it whos rng at the time while 3 other rngs in the ls shot him down over how usesless it was to merit to begin with and his rng at that time was 27 but it comes up because it IS worth meriting, it's still there choice of course, but if they want to acttualy be good at there job they can choose wisly a ability that will save you once every 5 minutes because you can't manage your hate? or an ability that can save you arrows since there are better ways to control hate, it's up to them. don't knock an ability untill you acttualy try it for your self.

[Shin Volcano]

Drawn-out flamewars and name-calling over three of the worst cat2 merits in the game? Seriously?

Flashy Shot f'ing sucks. You mean if I merit this ability 5 times, every 5 minutes I can (essentially) do what any melee can do with Sneak Attack every 60 seconds, only I take a huge enmity penalty?

You're a funny dude, i'll give you that, i don't recall a WS on a mob with an ability that makes the mob you are fighting count as "to weak to be worthwile" for that shot "f'ing suck!" but you made me laugh, i like that. yea it's totattly the same as sneak attack, most certantly.

Stealth Shot f'ing sucks. How many mobs that matter are going to be slugged for ~2000 damage? What difference does it make when we have two tanks scraping against the enmity cap on any extended fight? And how many mobs are you going to fight for long enough for a 5-minute-recast enmity down to make any real difference?

While all my posts are agaisnt this said ability..the main reason this is not worth meriting is because with good tanks this ability won't make a shit bit of diffrence, which is the ENTIRE point i'm trying to make here, if your tank sucks or is a Askar head full time pld and no haste build, yea, you probably need this ability, full merited no doubt, so it is acttualy needed by some RNGs, for good groups, it is not. but you don't have to be one sided about it.

Recycle f'ing sucks. 5 levels of Recycle gives me the-same-or-less savings than just wearing relic hat.

You do realize it stacks with the relic hat and paddock trousers should you choose to use them if you have them right? do the math.

If:

- Flashy Shot's recast were quartered and there was no enmity penalty
- Stealth Shot's -enmity was a static amount in the -30 to -50 range and additional merits removed a minute of recast
- Recycle was +15% proc rate per merit

...then this argument would be worth having. As it is, all RNG cat2s save one suck so hard that the choice is clear*: 5/5 Snapshot, and whatever the hell you want with the rest because it doesn't f'ing matter.

*I reserve future judgment for KC+Culverin+Recycle builds, which at least have a glimmer of potential usefulness

Culverin is acttualy a good reason while recycle IS usefull acttualy,


the OPS question was which wereworth meriting, we all agreed snapshot is your primary choice, after that it's all up to you, bad tanks/you can't control your hate = Stealth shot.

Good tanks/zerg fights hell anything really=Recycle +flashy shot, he can do with that info what he wants.

[matix]

lede, give it up, honestly... its not about the 20000exp, it could be 100k exp, i really don't care how much exp it, just like i don't care how much my ammo costs since i know that's part of my job. i get the abilities that provide beneficial aspects to the way ranger is played and utilized, if you cant see the obvious reasoning behind this, i don't know how else i could further explain it.

I have done somthing about it, never had a draw in fulmi, since our tanks could keep hate and our blms or drk can stun properly, i remember i grabed hate once and that's because our tanks switched because one had to log and i went a little nuts and 3 back to back WS what you just said is merly a example of a shitty tank.

look i provided an EXAMPLE of where it comes in, i didnt say its happend to you exactly like that, if you wanna beat around he bush and avoid the point feel free, i just provided one of the many places/situations its useful, there are countless more. yeah, im sure youve never pulled hate more than once ever, and your tanks never ever lose hate, and your blms and drks never miss a stun ever. it doesn't really matter how awesome or shitty a tank you have, if both the rng and tanks capped CE(which happens in almost any fight that's longer than 15min) its just a matter of time til the rng will be pulling hate, the more you can do to put that off w/o causing draw in's/confusion/making tanks lose hate the better, i try push the envelope and ill try to squeeze as much in as possible, without stealing hate to get draw in, it should be obvious there are certain times when you do not want to pull hate, but damage is required
i dont just sit there, pop a few shots and count how many arrows i saved from recycle, im actually trying to be efficient at dealing damage.

by the end of a drawn out hnm fight you will be capped CE, along with plds/nins and battling for VE is the onyl thing determining whos got hate, all it takes is nailing a big barrage or ws, and you take hate, HELL i get hate from shots/barrage only in these fights, i dont even use sidewinder sans stealthy on HNM, i spam namas arrow and only shoot/barrage, hate builds up, and you can easily peak over a tank in the VE side of things and end up drawn in near the end of a fight, its not very hard to get to CE cap either, 3-4 sides+ the shots you fired to get there. enjoy (a chance to) save money in your wallet, ill enjoy staying alive longer, while dealing as much damage as i can without making the nm run wild

[Zilong]

200 more damage every 10 mins is so broken you guys.

[Tsuko_Asura]

At what point did 'being a good tank' bestow upon one the ability to negate the effects of a damage dealer capping their volatile enmity? It doesn't make a bit of difference how amazing you are at holding something's attention; when a ranger hits 10,000 VE, you're either shit out of luck until it decays by a fair amount, or you're trading hate with every action initiated.

[Arthars]

1st off, you are definatly the 1st RNG i have seen to fully put merits into flashy, you either didn't know there was better things to put your merits in, or you like dying as quickly as possible, either way, that's certainly a 1st time for me, you bascialy just wasted 17 merits on group 2..can i ask why on earth would you max out flashy? unless you fight only kirin with your rng and have lots of RR i can see this working.

there you go, and i call it para-phasing

and for the bold part, obviously recycle is the way to go dooooood

for bolded part 2, go for recycle and your 17 merits isnt wasted dooooooooooooooooood

underline = feel free to bash this retard because we are all asking why he chose recycle anyway

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooo your the most epic rng evar

[Arthars]

200 more damage every 10 mins is so broken you guys.

yea im pretty sad now because extra damage and giving myself bonus lesser enmity every 3 mins barrage/WS is nowhere near comparable to recycle ; ;

saving arrows is the way to go. drop your enmity gears, or uber str gears guys

go grab recycle gears before people start selling AF2 cap for 5m in jeuno

[Shin Volcano]

there you go, and i call it para-phasing

and for the bold part, obviously recycle is the way to go dooooood

for bolded part 2, go for recycle and your 17 merits isnt wasted dooooooooooooooooood

underline = feel free to bash this retard because we are all asking why he chose recycle anyway

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooo your the most epic rng evar

I'm acttualy going to take Matx's advice.. because after this retared post there is seriously no point anymore. do whatever you want.

Im a retard because i choose a feasible abilty rather then a one shot every 5 minutes one..RNG era certainly died off you alone. ill go merit stealth and go drink tea and shit for 5 minutes till my timer is up, not a bad idea acttualy. brb.

I honeslty don't know how to respond to you because you really don't make any sense.

yea im pretty sad now because extra damage and giving myself bonus lesser enmity every 3 mins barrage/WS is nowhere near comparable to recycle ; ;

saving arrows is the way to go. drop your enmity gears, or uber str gears guys

go grab recycle gears before people start selling AF2 cap for 5m in jeuno

.............................What? lol......
__________________