Obama, taking on unions, backs teacher merit pay

[0ni0n]

By PHILIP ELLIOTT
Associated Press Writer
President Barack Obama embraced merit pay for teachers Tuesday in spelling out a vision of education that will almost certainly alienate union backers.

A strategy that ties teacher pay to student performance has for years been anathema to teachers' unions, a powerful force in the Democratic Party. These unions also are wary of charter schools, nontraditional educational systems that they believe compete with traditional schools for tax dollars.
Obama, however, also spoke favorably of charter schools, saying that where they work, they should be encouraged.

He did acknowledge in his speech to the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce that his proposals could meet heavy resistance in both political parties.

"Too many supporters of my party have resisted the idea of rewarding excellence in teaching with extra pay, even though we know it can make a difference in the classroom," he said, delivering the first major education speech of his presidency. "Too many in the Republican Party have opposed new investments in early education, despite compelling evidence of its importance."

But he argued that a far-reaching overhaul of the nation's education system is an economic imperative that can't wait, despite the urgency of the financial crisis and other pressing issues.

"Despite resources that are unmatched anywhere in the world, we have let our grades slip, our schools crumble, our teacher quality fall short, and other nations outpace us," Obama said. "The relative decline of American education is untenable for our economy, unsustainable for our democracy, and unacceptable for our children. We cannot afford to let it continue. What is at stake is nothing less than the American dream."

Randi Weingarten, president of the 1.4 million-member American Federation of Teachers, said the union would "embrace the goals and aspirations outlined today by President Obama."

"Teachers want to make a difference in kids' lives, and they appreciate a president who shares that goal and will spend his political capital to provide the resources to make it happen," she said. "As with any public policy, the devil is in the details, and it is important that teachers' voices are heard."
The ideas the president promoted were nearly all elements of his campaign platform last year. He only barely mentioned the reauthorization of the Bush-era No Child Left Behind Act, which introduced sweeping reforms that schools are struggling to meet without the funding to match. Obama said his administration would "later this year" ensure that schools get the funding they need and that the money is conditioned on results.

Among the principles Obama laid out were:
_Challenging states to adopt world-class standards rather than a specific standard. Obama's economic stimulus plan includes a $5 billion incentive fund to reward states for, among other things, boosting the quality of standards and state tests, and the president said the Education Department would create a fund to invest in innovation.
_Improved pre-kindergarten programs, including $5 billion in the stimulus plan to grow Head Start, expand child care access and do more for children with special needs. He also said he would offer 55,000 first-time parents regular visits from trained nurses and said that states that develop cutting-edge plans to raise the quality of early learning programs would get an Early Learning Challenge Grant, if Congress approves the new program.
_Reducing student dropout rates. To students, Obama said: "Don't even think about dropping out of school." But he said that reducing the dropout rates also requires turning around the worst schools, something he asked lawmakers, parents and teachers to make "our collective responsibility as Americans."
_Repeating his call for everyone to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training, with the goal of highest proportion of college graduates in the world by the year 2020.

On charter schools, he said the caps instituted by some states on how many are allowed aren't "good for our children, our economy, or our country."

Obama also spoke at length about what he described his policy toward teachers, what he called an `unprecedented commitment to ensure that anyone entrusted with educating our children is doing the job as well as it can be done." In up to 150 more school districts, Obama said, teachers will get mentoring, more money for improved student achievement and new responsibilities.Also, Obama said, "We need to make sure our students have the teacher they need to be successful. That means states and school districts taking steps to move bad teachers out of the classroom. Let me be clear: if a teacher is given a chance but still does not improve, there is no excuse for that person to continue teaching."

The president acknowledged that a rethinking of the traditional American school day may not be welcome — "not in my family, and probably not in yours" — but is critical.

"The challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom," Obama said. "If they can do that in South Korea, we can do it right here in the United States of America."

After the speech, Obama stopped at a hotel to drop in on another meeting, an already scheduled and ongoing round-table discussion between Education Secretary Arne Duncan and the Council of Chief State School Officers, which involves the heads of education from every state and U.S. territory.

[GeneJackit]

The goal is noble, but i think the solution is dead wrong

Privitize all schools...there, I said it...deal w/ it

[Diamicles]

Privitize all schools...there, I said it...deal w/ it

This.


Also, none of that matters when stuff like the $40 Mil in budget cuts is being enacted in our school district. Too many teachers losing their jobs, which means that plan is much harder to enact.

[Feedmenow]

The goal is noble, but i think the solution is dead wrong

Privitize all schools...there, I said it...deal w/ it

It may help to do that in areas where most families would be able to handle tuition, but schools in poorer areas will probably get even less funds from a tuition that families couldn't pay for. Privatization would likely cause many schools to fall into bankruptcy pretty fast.

[Saphirea]

Homeschool > whatever the government decides to do with shitty public schools.
Private schools (including Catholic and other religious schools) better than shitty public schools.

[Olo401]

This is one issue where I'll gladly take a position against the NEA. Why shouldn't teachers be paid based on their performance of the classes and students they teach?

The NEA will argue in opposition to this claiming that a student's failure to learn in the classroom is due to the environment that student is raised in. As a person who has seen and recognized good and bad teachers in my school days, and have been able to not only recognize the difference but respond along with the rest of my class to a good teacher's abilities, I find that position ridiculous. Sure there are students who will lag behind because of the pressure of their home environments and failure of their parents to motivate them. But that's where a good teacher can make the difference.

And contrary to popular belief, merit-based pay would not lead to a shortage of teachers. In fact most teachers would stay right where they are. Those that underperform can find a position elsewhere, or find another career. Those that figure out how to reach & motivate their students will earn their rewards.

[Acturus]

If Obama wants to reward excellence with additional pay, he has my full support.

But none of this standardized test shit. The FCAT was the worst thing to come to Florida public schools since the "open classrooms" in the late 60s.

Having said that, the opening paragraphs of this article are dubious. The teachers' union doesn't want to get paid for student performance on a pass/fail system, because it encourages teaching only that material that will help the students pass, and it takes power out of the individual teachers' hands because some students are just shit-for-brains.

But the quote from Obama implies a reward system for above average performance.

[Seraph]

Homeschool > whatever the government decides to do with shitty public schools.
Private schools (including Catholic and other religious schools) better than shitty public schools.

The potential loss of social development skills from home schooling just isn't worth the scholastic benefit it in my book. Half of the benefit of schooling is education, the other half is learning to interact with, and deal with other people (and their bullshit).

[Seraph]

This is one issue where I'll gladly take a position against the NEA. Why shouldn't teachers be paid based on their performance of the classes and students they teach?

The NEA will argue in opposition to this claiming that a student's failure to learn in the classroom is due to the environment that student is raised in. As a person who has seen and recognized good and bad teachers in my school days, and have been able to not only recognize the difference but respond along with the rest of my class to a good teacher's abilities, I find that position ridiculous. Sure there are students who will lag behind because of the pressure of their home environments and failure of their parents to motivate them. But that's where a good teacher can make the difference.

And contrary to popular belief, merit-based pay would not lead to a shortage of teachers. In fact most teachers would stay right where they are. Those that underperform can find a position elsewhere, or find another career. Those that figure out how to reach & motivate their students will earn their rewards.

I would be more worried about teachers lying or cheating themselves to improve student test scores, as opposed to losing teachers.

[Olo401]

And prizatizing public schools is stupid. There are already private schools that server that role. Public schools serve a completely different role.

[Demosthenes11]

how the hell do you measure teacher performance?

sometimes its lucky, sometimes its unlucky, etc

[Tristam]

The potential loss of social development skills from home schooling just isn't worth the scholastic benefit it in my book. Half of the benefit of schooling is education, the other half is learning to interact with, and deal with other people (and their bullshit).

Not to mention parents may not be academically qualified to teach childeren. Or have the time.

[Olo401]

I would be more worried about teachers lying or cheating themselves to improve student test scores, as opposed to losing teachers.

Well that's what happened with No Child Left Behind - teachers, school administrators and even in some cases school board members deliberately helped students cheat, fudged testing results and/or bribed people to do such things.

[Ohemgee]

If Obama wants to reward excellence with additional pay, he has my full support.

But none of this standardized test shit. The FCAT was the worst thing to come to Florida public schools since the "open classrooms" in the late 60s.

Having said that, the opening paragraphs of this article are dubious. The teachers' union doesn't want to get paid for student performance on a pass/fail system, because it encourages teaching only that material that will help the students pass, and it takes power out of the individual teachers' hands because some students are just shit-for-brains.

But the quote from Obama implies a reward system for above average performance.

This. I graduated from one of the poorest counties in Florida, Broward fucking County (I believe Miami is the worst). Not to say I had a poor background growing up, I just went to retarded schools. Then again in Florida you have to realize (especially largely populated areas such as Miami, Broward, and Palm Beach counties) you'll have a school 70% below average, 20% Average, and 5-10% above average to A/B students.

I'm all for giving teachers more pay, but you need to realize, you can't give teachers more money for students that don't want to be there in the first place, it wastes the potential for other privileged students. Private schooling is probably the best option for kids anyway, Catholic school or not.

[Acturus]

This. I graduated from one of the poorest counties in Florida, Broward fucking County (I believe Miami is the worst). Not to say I had a poor background growing up, I just went to retarded schools. Then again in Florida you have to realize (especially largely populated areas such as Miami, Broward, and Palm Beach counties) you'll have a school 70% below average, 20% Average, and 5-10% above average to A/B students.

I'm all for giving teachers more pay, but you need to realize, you can't give teachers more money for students that don't want to be there in the first place, it wastes the potential for other privileged students. Private schooling is probably the best option for kids anyway, Catholic school or not.

You can't restrict teacher pay because of those same students that don't want to be there.

Unfortunately, the easiest way to quantify teacher effectiveness is to measure student performence, and that's also the worst way to quantify teacher effectiveness.

[pohibaba]

I have no problem with the federal government helping states fund education, but when we try setting all education policies from Washington we fail every single time. We need to leave the education of students up to the states, and hopefully, up to the individual school districts themselves.

[Patb]

I'm all for giving teachers more pay, but you need to realize, you can't give teachers more money for students that don't want to be there in the first place, it wastes the potential for other privileged students. Private schooling is probably the best option for kids anyway, Catholic school or not.

This exactaly. My mom teaches in one of the most poor parts of King county Washington. She's been a teacher there for over 10 years now, and I've sat in on her classes many times over the years. The kids just do not care. Even in middle school, they don't do assignments, don't even bother taking tests, or even showing up to class. The problem with it, is that no child left behind, assumes that all students want to be there. I can assure you that 80% of the kids at her schools would have been expelled for things (sexual harassment, bringing weapons, drugs) but with no child left behind, these kids are still there because the government says they need to be.

So how can we reward schools like this? when the kids are the ultimate deciding factor, and the kids chose to just fuck off.

[Tonberrry]

where would he plan on getting more money to pay the teachers?

Canada is the solution!

[Maxxthepenguin]

Well that's what happened with No Child Left Behind - teachers, school administrators and even in some cases school board members deliberately helped students cheat, fudged testing results and/or bribed people to do such things.

Not to mention entire states having their tests be leagues easier than other states.


In any case, I am interested to see how a teacher would be judged as good or bad in this system. How it's measured is the difference between this program being a success and a failure.

[Khajit]

Private schools aren't actually better than public schools(at least where i live). They simply are better at hiding how little their students have learned.

Also giving teachers more pay when the students get better grades just encourages them to cheat for the students which is the main problem behind such a strategy.
Catching the cheating teachers costs more too since to compare whether or not the teacher cheated you have to test the students several times in different conditions to see if it was an abnormal grade increase.