Joyeuse vs. Mercurial Sword PLD/DNC

[Rasantath]

if retaliation was subbale it'd take some of the umph from /sam and make /war a good sub again i think.

no because with retaliation you have to get hit, and that means taking the dmg. you just get to hit back. it procs ok, but not enough to make up for not having hasso.
now having BOTH as war/sam is fun.

[Howard Roark]

/dnc doesnt get hasso so moot point, hope someone comes in with the expected data soon that all the rude people were correct

you act like you'll be surprised by the results




protip: merc gswd = hummer, joyeuse = semi; you knew the results, why ask?

[Araelus]

15 people voted for the Hummer. It doesn't make sense, but there it is.

[BadKarma]

i dont see any possible way that the merc sword would beat the joytoy

[Neosutra]

I realize that everyone says Joyeuse, but, I was wondering if people had data, not opinions or assumptions. And I also don't have atonement, don't feel like going up 100 floors of Nyzul Isle to get it yet. I'm too lazy.

You arent looking for us to give you data, you're looking for someone to back you up on something you want to be true. There is no "testing" needed. You do more damage, return more hp, get more tp, and take less damage with joytoy/shield. Merc sword is ONLY for skillups.

Merc sword vs. Joytoy/shield isnt even a comparison.

Also, get atonement, or stop playing pld. End of story. If you dont feel it important to do nyzul and get atonement, then just go ahead and level another job.

[Seraph]

Also, get atonement, or stop playing pld. End of story. If you dont feel it important to do nyzul and get atonement, then just go ahead and level another job.

You sound like suck a dick, but it's so true. Atonement just completely changes the job in ways I ignored or denied before I got it. Having a Joyeuse just makes it infinitely more sexy, and you get the additional benefit of rocking your favorite shield too.

Mercurial sword has it's place for skilling up Greatsword, and as a placeholder if you don't have either a Joyeuse or Atonement for a /DNC setup. If you have a Joyeuse OR Atonement (OR both), be rocking out with Sword & Board.

[fndragon]

I've personally tested both. (Unlocked G.Sword 250 weaponskill on my pld in boyahda).

Joyeuse is way easier/better to do. The low damage on Mercurial means your weaponskills will top out around 400-500 at best, and Joy/shield gives you shield blocking for survival and atonement for destroying fools.

It's fun as hell to use for skilling up, but even at 240-250 skill, soloing Tough Steelshells was slightly annoying as a solo PLD/DNC because of the constant curing. Cure > Aspir or Dance Samba... Very busy. It's doable, but you've gotta juggle HP, MP, TP too much.

[Brill Weave]

You do more damage, return more hp, get more tp, and take less damage with joytoy/shield. Merc sword is ONLY for skillups.

Thread over.

[Neosutra]

You sound like suck a dick, but it's so true. Atonement just completely changes the job in ways I ignored or denied before I got it. Having a Joyeuse just makes it infinitely more sexy, and you get the additional benefit of rocking your favorite shield too.

Mercurial sword has it's place for skilling up Greatsword, and as a placeholder if you don't have either a Joyeuse or Atonement for a /DNC setup. If you have a Joyeuse OR Atonement (OR both), be rocking out with Sword & Board.

That was me being nice man.. Q.Q

[Seraph]

That was me being nice man.. Q.Q

Some people like it rough, but this is Newbie Forum after all.

[BadKarma]

I dont have atonement yet either, im kicking myself for it, but im working up nyzul as fast i can >.>

[Aragon of Odin]

Off topic a little but, since the introduction of Atonement how much has the value of Hauteclaire decreased?

Is it now better to weild a Joyeuse purely for spamming Atonement in situations where if you had Hauteclaire before you wouldn't even consider it?

[Neosutra]

Off topic a little but, since the introduction of Atonement how much has the value of Hauteclaire decreased?

Is it now better to weild a Joyeuse purely for spamming Atonement in situations where if you had Hauteclaire before you wouldn't even consider it?

Hauteclaire still has it's place, but that place has been reduced to a few fights where you dont want to feed the mob TP or really need the survivability (Khim, AV, /war idle piece).

But then again we are all supposed to use M.body and earth staff against AV right?

[Brill Weave]

I remember the Earth Staff days. /shudder NEVER AGAIN!

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Hauteclaire still has it's place, but that place has been reduced to a few fights where you dont want to feed the mob TP or really need the survivability (Khim, AV, /war idle piece).

But then again we are all supposed to use M.body and earth staff against AV right?

I dont engage on ixion either, and even when I gather up enough tp for atonement ive never been able to get it to do decent damage anyway. I stick with haut on him also.

Khim is definitely melee-able though you might not want to rock a joytoy when its in fulm mode. Same with cerb, atonement like crazy but in GoH mode, put it away or put on the haut.

[Neosutra]

I dont engage on ixion either, and even when I gather up enough tp for atonement ive never been able to get it to do decent damage anyway. I stick with haut on him also.

Khim is definitely melee-able though you might not want to rock a joytoy when its in fulm mode. Same with cerb, atonement like crazy but in GoH mode, put it away or put on the haut.

I personally wouldnt melee khim unless I had excal, especially not with joytoy, but Im sure others can get away with it. To each their own, and ya Ixion is probably another good one.

We will just see how burtgang treats me when it is done, and see if I miss the constant 50% DA rate from joytoy Q.Q.

[Acidious]

I'm not trying to find someone who supports me, I myself think Joyeuse is probably better, I'm just wondering if there is any data. But apparently not, so nevermind. And when my PLD hits 75 I'll get Atonement, but I can't yet.

[Max™]

It's pretty easy to determine.

You'd have go Pld/Sam with Hasso and an x-hit build to beat the TP gain of getting hit + swinging a joytoy around, and even then I doubt it would be a huge advantage... plus /Sam isn't even the same argument.

D26 Dly 444 + 2 Tp for being hit
D35 Dly 224 + 2 Tp for being hit + like 4 or 5 Tp per shield block

I get 6 tp per joyeuse swing atm I think, and I know the improved delay/tp gain rate isn't til 480+, so Merc sword probably gets like 10 or 11 per swing.

So 6 per hit, 50% DA so lets call it 9 per round, 2 rounds = 448 Delay.
Vs 10 per hit, not sure the swing spread, lets say it's 50% DA 25% TA for the hell of it.
Bah, I don't know how to do the math for TP gain with DA/TA/possible 4x in there that well, but even calling it 18 Tp per round average with the DA/TA's, Joytoy is still getting roughly 18 Tp in the same time, before the increased TP/reduced Dmg from a shield.

Just no way it could possibly compete before you factor in the base damage, lower skill, and weapon skill options.

The only use aside from skilling up, is if you were trying to help someone break a latent by spamming Spinning Slash/Ground Strike for them.

[Neosutra]

There is no "probably" to it acidious. It's like asking if anyone has any data on wether Aegis is better than a lvl 20 kite shield.

[Tekki]

Joyeuse, I've had everything for pld. Let Tekki be your data.