Some COR questions

[Yugl]

and to those that consider themselves "Those who know how to play", which IS preferred, /rng or /war? and dont give me the 'shit is situational' crap, give me examples of which and when. and dont feel limited to exp/meriting.

Well there are times when you want to sub RNG because the benefits you receive are better than those of sub WAR. On the other hand, there are times when sub WAR is better than sub RNG. In fact, the situation determines which sub is more beneficial. No doubt that analyzing the situation and making a carefully placed call will net you the most benefit out of your sub. Have a great adventure mighty Corsair Rasentath!

[noodles355]

Buy a calculator, some pens and paper, or a hammer and a god damn rock, and do the sixth grade algebra to arrive at the correct conclusion.

Hi, I know it's fun to flame someone, especially someone who's posted on "lolAlla" (did I get that right? I'd hate to be on the wrong side of this rivalry!). However, if you could put your ego to the side for a moment, could we look at the math to further my understanding instead of just flaming me? After all, if you are not taught, it is harder to learn.

I wrote out the numbers earlier, however lost the post, I believe it came to Single wield Joy being 6 hits normal and 6 hits DA (assuming 50% DA rate as it made my life easier, giving a total of 108TP).
Total 12 rounds at 224 for 2688 total delay

Now, let's look at Chiro/Joyeuse combo (assuming Suppa, which you should be wearing for both single and dual wield Joytoy):
(192+224)*0.8.
192*0.8= 153.6 = 5+((153.6-180)*1.5/180) = 4.78 = 4.7 TP
224*0.8= 179.2 = 5+((179.2-180)*1.5/180) = 4.99 = 4.9 TP.
4.7+4.9=9.6TP
50% of attacks=9.6TP
50% of attacks=14.5TP
14.5+9.6=24.1, 100/24.1=4.15=5 rounds
So, (5*9.6)+(5*14.5)=120.5 TP.
That's 10 rounds. At 332.8 = 333 (332.8, rounded up or down?) = 3330 Delay

So, that puts single wield Joy ahead by quite a bit, however I'm fairly certain my math is very stone-age... could someone correct me? I have a hard time beliving the delay difference (and thus the DoT difference) is so drastic.

If it is, then my next question is, for Sword War (Colibri), why do they go Perdu/Ridill or Organics/Ridill? Ridill has decent base damage anyway, and if the DoT is decreased, why DW a second sword?
The exception to this rule is Joy/Ridill, however, if Joy/Ridill is acceptable for War, why is MKris/Joy not for Cor/Nin?
Again, this is a genuine question, I'm no trying to troll.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Hi, I know it's fun to flame someone, especially someone who's posted on "lolAlla" (did I get that right? I'd hate to be on the wrong side of this rivalry!). However, if you could put your ego to the side for a moment, could we look at the math to further my understanding instead of just flaming me? After all, if you are not taught, it is harder to learn.

I'll humor you because of your post-count(because you may not be a long-time reader, not because of some expertise attributed with the number of times you've posted); The topic of dual-wielding Joyeuse on Corsair has been beaten to death. As such, there's hostility surrounding the question, and rightfully so. It really is an easy concept to decipher on your own, yet people still swear by their Kukri, regardless of the numerical evidence of counterproductivity.

If it is, then my next question is, for Sword War (Colibri), why do they go Perdu/Ridill or Organics/Ridill? Ridill has decent base damage anyway, and if the DoT is decreased, why DW a second sword?
The exception to this rule is Joy/Ridill, however, if Joy/Ridill is acceptable for War, why is MKris/Joy not for Cor/Nin?
Again, this is a genuine question, I'm no trying to troll.

I don't think Ridill in combination with anything is acceptable outside of Nyzul, Dynamis, Limbus, or other things that, quite frankly, don't matter, so you've got me on that one. Mathematically speaking however, Ridill in combination with any sword that isn't Joyeuse is moronic, and that's still quite debatable.

[Yugl]

I don't think Ridill in combination with anything is acceptable outside of Nyzul, Dynamis, Limbus, or other things that, quite frankly, don't matter, so you've got me on that one. Mathematically speaking however, Ridill in combination with any sword that isn't Joyeuse is moronic, and that's still quite debatable.

I don't see how people can say purposely gimping yourself at Dynamis or Limbus is fine, but exclude merit PTs from the list. It's people like that who end up making a simple ~30min Limbus run extend to ~1hr because they want to mess around act like a moron.

[Rasantath]

please post the link to the thread where it was beaten to death, i need to read that...

[Carrilei]

There's nothing wrong with MK+Joy when /Nin; taking advantage of the DW traits there is a good choice. However, the chances of a COR both using /Nin when they should, as well as those two weapons with eachother.. It's astronomically low, so some help those of thick mind with something easier to remember. In that vein, it's similar to the use of /Nin to begin with, as seen in the three 'rules' posted here. There are exceptions, but stating something like that is the best way to get the point across to most.

[Raen Ryong]

I did this math when bored in a Dynamis-Beaucedine one time on the topic of SW Joytoy vs DW Joytoy/MKris for Corsair/Ninja. I don't have much experience in doing this side of the maths so would welcome any criticism.

I floor'd all decimal values which may cause inaccuracies.

Stats used:
20% DW delay reduction (suppa + DW2)
100% accuracy
0 Store TP
0% haste
0% external Double Attack

Joyeuse: Delay 224
Mkris: Delay 192

DW: (224 + 192) * 0.8 = 332(.8 )

Joyeuse: Hit distribution 55/45/0 Avrg: 1.45
M kris: Hit distribution 10/80/10 Avrg: 1.9

Joyeuse: Delay 224 with Avrg hits per round: 1.45
DW: Delay 332 with Avrg hits per round: 3.35

Finding a place where the two delays "intersect" for lack of a better term;
224 * 332 = 74368 delay units, or 1239 seconds, 20.6 minutes.
Joyeuse: 74368 / 224 = 332 attack rounds
DW: 74368 / 332 = 224 attack rounds

Joyeuse: 332 * 1.45 = 481(.4) swings
DW: 224 * 3.35 = 750(.4) swings

TP/hit:

Joyeuse: 6.0
DW: 4.8

Joyeuse = 6 * 481 = 2886tp
DW = 4.8 * 750 = 3600tp
24.7% increase in TP gain when switching to DW over Joy SW.

Does that look feasible at all? That doesn't address the subject of sub vs sub but it addresses the subject of Joy SW vs Joy/Mkris DW. As I say, I am not familiar with this particular element of FFXI-based math so would appreciate criticism.

[Carrilei]

One thing you have to consider is that your DoT will take a hit when adding MK, but yes, TP gain will be faster than SW Joy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure when you add a weapon that will gain TP faster than Joy to begin with, and factor in a 20% delay reduction.. The TP gain will be greater. Like I said, DoT will not be as strong, but the overall effect of adding the MK is worth it. This I stress, should only be done when using /Nin regardless, which is very situational..

[Raen Ryong]

Yeah, obviously for a complete analysis I'd have to factor in skill differences, actual damage dealt over time and such, but I didn't think that was too bad for a pure TP gain comparison.

[Suteru]

Go for Fire Staff pre-Joytoy. If you're /rng your accuracy will be fine and will benefit from the STR and Ranged Attack.

Sets:

Spoiler: show

Town
WS
Quick Draw - DD
Ranged TP
Melee TP (Needs work)

edit:
Here's my SpellCast XML for anyone who uses that.

[Marcicus]

God damn you and your AF Head +1 ; ; I can't get any of the COR AF items from Limbus to drop anymore. Also why no Martial Gun?

[nitsuj]

why no Martial Gun?

I believe someone did the math/parses a few months back and even with the earring Martial was still performing better than Murderer (which is sad, I had high hopes!)

[Dathus]

Does that include during Quick Draws as well, or does the Corsair's gun(+1) trump that, too? I'm looking to maximize the gear needed for every aspect of COR, even if it's a separate gun just for QDing in.

[Kerberoz]

Don't forget that DW is more likely to put you over 100 and waste TP if you're slugging. Can't really imagine a situation where you'd be /NIN and meleeing, though. Maybe Dynamis...

I used to use /RNG and meat exclusively in merits but I'm starting to like /WAR and sushi more now. Of course always /RNG for things like Odin, Ixion, etc. /NIN or /RDM for soloing, depending on the mob. For something like Fortitude, shadows really really help, but for weak things like ZNM, /RDM for the MAB and Bio.

Does that include during Quick Draws as well, or does the Corsair's gun(+1) trump that, too? I'm looking to maximize the gear needed for every aspect of COR, even if it's a separate gun just for QDing in.

Corsair's +1 is the best (minus mythic) for QD'ing, but that really only matters solo or in a manaburn. Any time you'll be using WS at all, Martial gun will parse the highest.

[Kilhart]

For something like Fortitude, shadows really really help

Pansy! D:

[Tulun]

Isn't the base damage difference only 6 dmg between martial + corsair's +1 anyway? (for Quick Draw)

[Kilhart]

Isn't the base damage difference only 6 dmg between martial + corsair's +1 anyway? (for Quick Draw)

Multiplied by staff bonus, and then multiplied by MAB bonus, and then multiplied by DWB. Yes, Corsair's+1 isn't NECESSARY by any means if you don't have mythic, but NQ Corsair's costs like 10k to make, so you have no excuse not to have at least NQ unless you have like 10 jobs and no space whatsoever.

[Kerberoz]

Pansy! D:

Pulling Fort solo without shadows is just asking to get raped by a random ghrah bind or graving you >.>

[Kilhart]

Pulling Fort solo without shadows is just asking to get raped by a random ghrah bind or graving you >.>

Nah. I've never died on /BLM or /RDM unless it was through a severe personal fuckup. If you get bound, you most likely won't die from being hit before bind wears on /BLM, and as /RDM it's just ridiculously hard to die deaggroing it. As for grav, if you do happen to get hit with it, I guess you are screwed, but I've gone as /BLM about 15 times now and have yet to get hit by Grav (maybe it's the paths I take? /shrug), and I always have RR up anyways. I would only suggest /NIN for people just starting to solo Fort, to get used to the pulls.

[Carrilei]

Can't really imagine a situation where you'd be /NIN and meleeing, though. Maybe Dynamis...

Nyzul HNM's are a place for /Nin - it's more helpful than during merits on the first 4 floors, but to me it becomes a good choice because of the HNM.. Utsusemi makes it more viable for the COR to melee it. Without, you really exacerbate your chances of being a massive MP sink, potentially making your damage dealt not even worth the damage you're taking.