Mijin Gakure - Barfira: Placebo?

[Talint]

This argument of, it's just 12 mp cast it anyway: How about I just cast Shellra 1 immediately after I cast Shellra V, every single time, it's only 18 mp what does it matter?

Go for it. At the very most, I'll raise an eyebrow.

[shaddix]

I think I will in my dyna-windy run tonight. Tell them they stack even though the message says no effect.

[Talint]

I think I will in my dyna-windy run tonight. Tell them they stack even though the message says no effect.

You're probably going to feel silly when the log says "No effect" though.

The problem is, game mechanics aren't consistent between players and enemies. Enemy Mijin Gakure is not the same as player Mijin Gakure, because it's area of effect and the enemy doesn't actually die. That much is true.

When you fight Laila for DNC G5, she will use steps on you. When you get hit with a step, you get inflicted with an uneraseable, special daze icon. Yet, when gnats vomit their enfeebles on you (including steps), you get a generic icon instead labeled as a daze, which is erasable.

There's plenty of enemy self-destruct moves in the game that are fire based, and I wouldn't put it past Square Enix to simply copy/paste the mechanics to fit and adjust appropriately. I think casting Barfira is pointless, since I'm inclined to agree about the damage being non-elemental magical a-la atonement and spirits, but I'm not going to chew anyone out for casting/not casting it. I can't really point to some solid evidence and call them wrong.

[Gwynplaine]

This is one of those persisting myths that simply won't die, and even the people you'd expect to know better fall victim to.

Mythbusters should do an entire show on barfire and mijin, and barwater and slimes.

[SargentRemora]

HP of the mob and -magic dmg gear/shell are the only things that reduce mijin afaik

Wish I had a SS of this:
Last Dynamis-Beaucedine the WHM mob Bene'd just as the NIN hit Mijin Gakure and everyone took 4k from it. Something to consider when in Dyna...

[shaddix]

I will attempt to put barfira on 1/2 my party in dyna from now on in an attempt to acquire a screenshot of it doing nothing.

[Thorny]

~280 resist from gear/carol/brd barfire isn't enough to show a noticable difference on kitsotsuki NM's mijin(and that's level 65) over ~25 kills about half with and half without, your barspell certainly isn't doing shit on dynamis mobs

note that i'm also of the impression it's nonelemental, just stating this because as far as i'm concerned it shows that even if it's fire-based it has pretty unholy m.acc

[Shin Volcano]

They're doing it wrong.

I've got capped bareffect merits. I cast Barfira. I cannot even remember the last time I died to a Mijin Gakure. Is it a placebo? (Probably.) The real question is "do I give a shit?" (No. I don't.) I can't think of any other way to provide any form of damage mitigation to my party (on WHM) for Mijin Gakure. Does it work? Is it miniscule if it does work? (Probably no and probably yes.) I keep Stoneskin up. If having Barfira up makes my party feel a little safer, then so be it. I don't give a shit and this topic has been beaten to fuck and back again.

Cast it or don't. It's 12 MP and if you're not fucking it up, you're not going to die on WHM.

This this and this...i'v never even died to a single Mijin in dynamis unless for whatever i was already in red HP, i'v even survived a "oh shit" SMN mob 2 hour when some retard decided to smack a Avatar and woke it up, (of course got instantly raped right afterwords but still) a good whm KNOWS how to defend them self, iv had mijin go off plenty of times and didnt kill me not once, it isnt a matter of a whm dying it's if the whm is SMART enough to know how to stay alive i also cast it, just so i dont hear people bitching about taking 1.2k damage from the 2 hour, i know it dosnt really help but just to shut people the fuck up, just do it untill they find out for them self. it does at least help vs goblins in dynamis with that bomb toss shit.

[Eldelphia]

When this topic came up regarding Hurricane Wing, the person who supplied data showing that Hurricane Wing was wind-based by casting bararea also tried barfira and didn't not receive the damage reduction.

Edit: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/1863444-post32.html This is with briault, but fairly certain merits work the same.

Thanks for that that's exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to see.

[Drex]

This is one of those persisting myths that simply won't die, and even the people you'd expect to know better fall victim to.

Mythbusters should do an entire show on barfire and mijin, and barwater and slimes.

IT EVEN GETS ABSORBED BY UTSU AND PEOPLE STILL DON'T GET IT GWAAHHGHG

Barwatera for fluid spread never fails to spark my rage

[Zoner]

Paladin's ability Fealty greatly reduces damage taken from Mijin Gakure, Meteor and Alexander's two hour ability Divine Judgment. Assumed to work with other avatar style Astral Flow skills. Damage reduction is around ~90%. Also I believe Hurricane Wing is dark based.

[Auspice]

Also I believe Hurricane Wing is dark based.

Baraero doesn't do shit for hurricane wing either? Christ, this thread has been informative.

[Suiram]

Baraero doesn't do shit for hurricane wing either? Christ, this thread has been informative.

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic so I'll accept my woosh if you were, but Zoner is mistaken and Hurricane Wing is most definitely wind-based. However, it also cannot resist, I believe, so baraera alone does nothing, while baraera+merits/briault will reduce damage.

Which reminds me, I didn't really address the question of Mijin in my other post, but really there are two different questions involved. One is whether or not it's fire-based, and the other is whether or not barfira does anything for it. The difference you can see is that with Hurricane Wing, if it happened to ignore MDB (it doesn't ignore, but it's conceivable it could have been made that way), then even though it would be wind-based, baraera wouldn't do anything.

So I guess the first question is, does Mijin ignore MDB? I think it might, because I remember seeing screenshots where mages and melee with the same level of shell on took the same damage, but I'm not sure where those are. Best would be screenshots of bene -> mijin in dynamis, or wynav mijin on AV (their HP might be too low now though), where you hit the 4k cap. If it doesn't ignore MDB though, then barfira with merits/body is an easy test.

If it does ignore MDB, then it's more difficult. Like Zoner mentioned fealty earlier. My understanding of fealty is that the significant resistance/damage cut (to damage, not enfeebles) is only to non-elemental magic like Meteor, etc, but not to regular elemental magic damage? If this is true, then if Mijin is reduced by Fealty, that's evidence of it being non-elemental, as others have said.

[shaddix]

So I guess the first question is, does Mijin ignore MDB? I think it might, because I remember seeing screenshots where mages and melee with the same level of shell on took the same damage

believe you're correct. I was on whm, and war and I both got hit for exact same damage with shell V on. Happened the other day in xarc, then everyone started bitching about barfira.

[Ophannus]

Well Hurricane Wing does blind. Other wyrms wings are element based on the status ailment they inflict.

Tebid Wing: Inflicts PLague, Fire damage
Cyclone Wing: Inflicts Sleep, Dark Damage
Ochre Wing: Inflicts Slow, Earth Damage
Gregale Wing: Inflicts Paralyze, Ice Damage


From this pattern--
Hurricane Wing: Inflicts Blind,Dark Damage?

[Arthars]

seeing its black, it might be

sorry obama

[Auspice]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic so I'll accept my woosh if you were, but Zoner is mistaken and Hurricane Wing is most definitely wind-based. However, it also cannot resist, I believe, so baraera alone does nothing, while baraera+merits/briault will reduce damage.

No woosh; I hadn't heard that before. Lulz @ me for laughing at people casting barfira on for Mijin and I've been casting Baraero for wings. My world is being turned upside down.

[Zoner]

Well Hurricane Wing does blind. Other wyrms wings are element based on the status ailment they inflict.

Tebid Wing: Inflicts PLague, Fire damage
Cyclone Wing: Inflicts Sleep, Dark Damage
Ochre Wing: Inflicts Slow, Earth Damage
Gregale Wing: Inflicts Paralyze, Ice Damage


From this pattern--
Hurricane Wing: Inflicts Blind,Dark Damage?

^this

It's been awhile but I seem to remember Dark Carol giving some protection against hurricane wing, but it was long ago and maybe I'm mistaken. Besides bards have better songs to play then carols, right?

[shaddix]

Baraera+briault reduces HW damage as stated above. It isn't dark, unless it has two elements or something weird.

[Xanthu]

I have some stubborn friends, they want some real testing on something like this that's so set in people's mind, also throwing around "well dynamis is different."

Any links, or suggestions how to test? Best I can think of is two parties with a PLD each and WHMs samely geared. One with briault one without....hope SE rolls same on damage?