dominos...

[Dimmauk]

Page 1 = Cold Pizza
Page 2 = Tip people
Page 3 = Trolls and Racism
Page 4 = ???

[Charismatic]

you don't make any points, you are a worthless poster. AMAZING SKILLS.

My point was clearly stated.
I believe that wait staff in restaurants deserve to make more than minimum wage.

Of course, the guy who is just showing up should be fired... not paid money.

Did you have to try hard to develop these skills or does it come naturally?

besides I'm not even referencing any post of yours.

The post you quoted was in direct response to me and you posted in agreement as if to add to that response... what?

[Seraph]

Page 1 = Cold Pizza
Page 2 = Tip people
Page 3 = Trolls and Racism
Page 4 = ???

Buy a real pizza.

[arus2001]

It's kind of sad, really, that as we advance technology, we've replaced some jobs with computers and such, but the population's also grown without respect to these growing gaps in employment options.

Higher education to get out of the minimum wage grind requires money, likely more than you can make on the job and still live on, let alone just live on to begin with. If you can't score scholarships or financial aid for some reason, you're basically fucked into being bottom of the barrel indefinitely. And even if you do jump through all the excess hoops for some kind of degree, there's never a guarantee there will actually be a job for you or that it won't be replaced by another type of machine or simply outsourced to India 10 years down the road.

Really, it just boils down to the nation's distribution of wealth being all fucked up. For every guy making 7+ figures a year, you could probably cut him down to 6 and improve the lives of many others dramatically. Sure, it might mean one less condo for the rich dude, but boo-fucking-hoo. Whether or not they actually deserve what they've got is subjective, but I have a hard time believing some of the people at AIG are working harder than some RN in a hospital who's getting far less on top of the risks of health care work.

Of course, this risks trudging into the depths of communism vs. capitalism, how trickle down economics don't work, and so on. Not exactly a fight I'm willing to get into today. Nor will a few us bitching about it on the net really change the busted system.

[Dimmauk]

Buy a real pizza.

The Circle of Life will be complete.

[Seraph]

If you can't score scholarships or financial aid for some reason, you're basically fucked into being bottom of the barrel indefinitely.

I have to immediately disagree with this statement. My parents are poor as shit, and I was able to fund my college education 100% by myself with scholarships, grants, loans, and working summer jobs. I had to bust my ass for essentially 8 years, but I got the degree I wanted. I'm almost done paying off all my insane loan debt too, should be finished sometime next year.


Edit: And yeah, I had to take unfavorable loans with over 10% interest at the time to do it too. If someone wants a college education bad enough, they will get it. Many people don't want it bad enough though. A select few are also unlucky or too stupid to actually pull it off as well. College isn't for everyone I guess.

[Charismatic]

There is no image macro for what I'm feeling right now.

[Xno Kappa]

greasy dough is much more superior? New York style and Chicago style is disgusting.

Yes, I'm sure your quite knowledgeable on pizza from New York because of the New York "style?" deli at your town somewhere in North Dakota. The fact you felt the need to even say "New York/Chicago style" kind of tells me you've probably never set foot in either city amirite?

[Seraph]

There is no image macro for what I'm feeling right now.

[Karshe]

A few months ago we went out to chinese food and, long story short, the server was rude, the food was hardly warm and all in all it was a terrible experience. Tip? Hell no.

After exiting the restaurant the server proceeded to follow us out to the parking lot shouting, "WHAT WAS WRONG? YOU NO LEAVE TIP! WHY? WHY NO TIP? WHAT WAS WRONG?" Excuse the stereotypical broken english, but that's what she said verbatim. Couldn't fucking believe it.

Auto-tipping is definitely a no-no with me.

[Charismatic]

I have to immediately disagree with this statement. My parents are poor as shit, and I was able to fund my college education 100% by myself with scholarships, grants, loans, and working summer jobs.

If you can't score scholarships or financial aid for some reason, you're basically fucked into being bottom of the barrel indefinitely.

­You disagreed by agreeing...

[arus2001]

Well, I wasn't an A+ student, nor am I a minority or female. Back when I was trolling for all that stuff, there was always some kind of catch that disqualified me. Inevitably, I had to back out of school because I simply couldn't afford it. It's not like I didn't do what I could save money elsewhere in shopping for food and the like, but what I do can't change what employers do. Ask for a raise? They refuse or start looking for reasons to fire you and pick up someone who will work for less. Look for a better paying job? Overqualified, somehow.

Maybe it's just a regional thing. Where I live isn't exactly sprawling. In fact, it's been declining long before this recent stuff. However, I simply can't pack my bags and go elsewhere without money or the promise that'd I actually find something I can live with wherever I go.

[Seraph]

­You disagreed by agreeing...

Replace merit based aid with loans as applicable. The more you bust ass in school, the less loans you will likely need. I didn't really agree at all, I just explained my personal situation. Beyond that, I'm a white dude, so no minority or special needs aid for me! The situation is obviously easier for some than others, but it's not impossible for anyone.

I did gamble though, and went $50,000 into debt to get the education I wanted. It took me almost 5 months out of college to find a job I considered acceptable too. In the meantime, I was working a part time $10 an hour delivery job to cover the bare living expenses while still looking for a real job. It's not exactly a Cinderella story, but I am proud of what I was able to accomplish. This is in Upstate New York too, it hasn't exactly been awesome in this area ever.

To that point, if a college education isn't worth the cost (and bullshit associated) to you, don't go to college.

(Also, let's just ignore the shitstorm that will be the 2009-2010 merit based aid situation...)

[Xno Kappa]

I skipped the whole loan shit altogether and got my degree for free thanks to the U.S. Army. A couple of tours to Iraq here and there but I still got all my appendages so I'm happy.

[Seraph]

I skipped the whole loan shit altogether and got my degree for free thanks to the U.S. Army. A couple of tours to Iraq here and there but I still got all my appendages so I'm happy.

That's a viable option I didn't even cover. The risk involved though is physical as opposed to just financial though, and I am sure some people wouldn't go for that.

[arus2001]

Yeah, military's probably a no go for me with my bad knee and some other medical conditions. I'm not exactly the type that'd be okay with a drill sergeant barking in my face, either.

[Dimmauk]

I skipped the whole loan shit altogether and got my degree for free thanks to the U.S. Army. A couple of tours to Iraq here and there but I still got all my appendages so I'm happy.

Fuck that shit! I'm not selling my body to the government. I'd rather pay off my Loans for 10 years(almost done), then fucking go into the military.

[ferigor]

At some fancier restaurants (even some not so fancy restaurants) they impose a 15% gratuity on tables over 8 (also varies from restaurant to restaurant). So when you get the bill, do you non-tippers complain to the manager? just kind of curious on this one.

As for the "If you need the tips to live, you need a better job" argument... Did you know that waiting is one of few jobs that without any education or experience in the field you can move anywhere in the USA (at least anywhere with a restaurant) and still make a livable wage? I have quite a few friends who have moved away from home and spent time waiting tables until they were able to find a better job. With a lot of people getting laid off right now, its also a good way to recover from an unexpected termination. I also have a few friends who, instead of going for unemployment and welfare, have chose to work instead of taking government hand outs. A lot of those people have kids at home and have to work odd hours to make ends meet, and conveniently there are restaurants open all the time. At least they are trying to work for the money you are giving them, instead of sitting on their ass eating cereal and watching cartoons, and taking their share from your paycheck. Perhaps, everyone thats a waiter/waiteress didn't stare out their window at night as a kid thinking how much they wanted to wait tables because the movies make it look so glamorous, but perhaps they are trying to work their way out of a slump.

As for "Well you don't tip at McDonalds...", servers at McDonalds don't get taxed on tips. At a lot of fast food joints (at least around where I live) they are told not to accept tips or gifts. I once tried to tip a girl at a McDonalds and she told me about this, and then I confirmed it with some friends of mine who also worked at McDonalds (though this could just be due to the franchise owner or what have you. Although, when I worked retail they also told us that we had to refuse tips, and this was as management for both Zumiez and Pacsun). When I worked at the mall, and there was a fast food restaurant in the mall that had to take down their tip cup because the other restaurants outside of the mall weren't allowed to have tip cups. Despite this, I have still tipped fast food workers, mostly Dairy Queen or Baskin Robbins, but I've tipped a few Taco Bell and McDonalds employees in my day (though at fast food, I think it needs to be pretty exceptional service to deserve a tip).

One thing I don't get, is do you guys not understand that people will treat you better the better you treat them? That whole "Do unto others as you wish others would do unto you" thing. If you don't tip, and are a regular at any restaurant, the employees there all know you and all hate you. Your service will be poor, and there's a good chance that your food won't be as good as it could (You see, waiters usually tip the cooks, and if you aren't tipping the waiter, they aren't tipping the cook...). Despite what you might think, wait staff will remember you, especially if you don't tip. I would consider myself an above average tipper, and its definately paid off for me quite a few times.
Just for example, there is a 24 hour diner where I live called Finnegans, think of it as Denny's +1. They used to have this waiter named Chris who is easily the best waiter I've ever been waited on. After awhile, he would bring me a Pepsi and a Garden Salad (with double cheese and double ranch because they didn't put enough of either on) before I so much as had a menu. He knew my usual order (Hot Turkey sandwich with mashed potatoes) and he had also memorized a list of food I liked and disliked and sometimes I'd just tell him "Surprise me" and he'd come up with something, usually off menu. My favorite surprise was a Veggie Burger with Bacon and Pepperjack Cheese, the veggie burger made up for the fact that their actual burgers tasted like shit.
This is kind of a weird story, but I think it ties in well. When my friends and I used to get delivery, we'd lower a basket out of the second story window and have them put our food in the basket while we lowered down an envelope with the bill and tip in there. We stood out quite a bit because of the basket, but also because we tipped well. After we moved out of that house, I ran into two different people that remembered me from the house on Arthur Ave. One I met while I was actually working pizza delivery, and he gave me a $10 tip. The other delivered to me at a different address, when she saw it was me she asked if I moved, what happened to the basket, and then told me she'd remember my new place (and she did. Which I'm glad, because if this waitress/delivery gal didn't like you she was a bitch).
I've had countless other experiences where tipping big has gotten me into free meals, earlier seating, or just better service. While I understand that it is your right to tip or not, understand that not all customers are treated equally. You might be saving yourself 5 bucks every time you eat out, but is it worth it? Does not tipping make you an asshole? Not necessarily. It does make you a bigger asshole than the guy that leaves a buck though. In the paraphrased words of Lur, Ruler of Omicron Persei 8, "Are you better than him? Yes, but not by enough."

tl;dr version: I had way too much free time at work this afternoon.

[Xno Kappa]

lol It's nowhere near as bad as Hollywood makes it out to be. Best health coverage you'll ever get on top of a 100% Tuition Assistance too. Then again, I'm not a recruiter so I'll stop with the rhetoric.

[Seraph]

One thing I don't get, is do you guys not understand that people will treat you better the better you treat them? That whole "Do unto others as you wish others would do unto you" thing. If you don't tip, and are a regular at any restaurant, the employees there all know you and all hate you. Your service will be poor, and there's a good chance that your food won't be as good as it could (You see, waiters usually tip the cooks, and if you aren't tipping the waiter, they aren't tipping the cook...). Despite what you might think, wait staff will remember you, especially if you don't tip. I would consider myself an above average tipper, and its definately paid off for me quite a few times.

With few exceptions, the tip should reflect the service given, the service should not reflect the tip. That's why it is a tip and not part of the cost. The only time I break this rule is with a good bartender.