RDM Group 2 Merits.

[Onel]

So far I have slow2/dia3, working on other job merits before pumping potency into slow2, and contemplating the other spells at the moment myself.

I will say this: if you're gonna merit Dia3, do so at least twice. This gives a 1 minute duration (same duration as chainspell, so pairs well for its primary purpose of zerg assistance) and makes it MP viable. 30 second duration is a serious ripoff for 45 MP.

That being said- I love it. Einherjar it is great. You may say its only a small amount better than Dia 2, but those small amounts add up.

As for others, its all been said. I just wanted to emphasize that Dia 3 is great, however only really great with at least a 1 min duration.

I actually respectfully disagree. Anything more than 1 merit in Dia3 to me is a waste. If a zerg lasts a min I can recast it very easily and no the 45 mp cost doesn't hurt me. Even in meripo the mp cost for 30 secs doesnt matter as mobs SHOULD be dying at around a 30 second kill speed. And if its not dead by the time dia3 wears then I just dont recast it and that actually gives me a good indicator of how strong the melee are.

I do agree with you however that the spell is VERY good. It has a noticeable advantage in almost all endgame events I participate in. 1 Merit in it, I think, is a must for any general purpose RDM.

For the record my T2 Merits were changed only once but ended up as

Slow2 Lvl 3 (Have to have this spell)
Para2 Lvl 1 (Considered dropping this for more slow but have kept and dont regret even at lvl 1)
Dia3 Lvl 1
Bio3 Lvl 5 (I solo alot)

[Celebrindor]

your merit setup looks a LOT like I plan on doing. Question on Bio3: Do you find it truly speeds up your soloing? As most RDMs, I don't give a crap about the STR/Atk down on the mob, or the extra 5% you get from Bio2 over Bio3, but is the DoT truly that much more spectacular? Or is it merely an issue of similar enough DoT combined with a higher initial damage on casting?

[ninjafox]

I thought that a BLMs Bio 2 was equal to or greater than Bio 3? Anyhoo, in my opinion Bio 3 is the least sensible choice of merit unless you solo A LOT.

[Ultimagi]

Bio III with some equipment can reach 1 damage per tick higher than a Black Mage or Dark Knight Bio II, not to mention lasting longer. The least sensible choice is, by far, Blind II.

[Jeryhn]

I wrote something long on RDM Group 2 Merits a couple weeks ago in another thread.
Here you go: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/70517...ml#post2543247

[Onel]

your merit setup looks a LOT like I plan on doing. Question on Bio3: Do you find it truly speeds up your soloing? As most RDMs, I don't give a crap about the STR/Atk down on the mob, or the extra 5% you get from Bio2 over Bio3, but is the DoT truly that much more spectacular? Or is it merely an issue of similar enough DoT combined with a higher initial damage on casting?

For BLM and DRK Bio 2, the highest dot per tick you can achieve currently is 8/tick at 291+ skill which is easy enough for both jobs to reach. From my knowledge no one has found a higher tier for the Bio2 spell, which btw lasts for a total of 2 minutes or ~40 ticks. Disregarding initial damage thats 320 dmg per cast of Bio2.

For RDM, our native Dark Skill is really low (200) and thus w/o SCH sub Dark Arts and the best Dark skill gear, our highest Bio2 cast reaches the 6/tick tier which is only a total of 240 damage over 2 minutes. With SCH sub and and even the best Dark skill gear (outside of event-triggered gear like Diabolos' ring and Dark skill merits) we can only reach 290 skill and get 7/tick (280 total dmg). Since most things RDM solo require NIN sub and not SCH sub, at best if you are soloing with Bio2 the most you can get is the 240 dmg/2 min tier or 3600 dmg/30 minutes.

Bio3 speeds up my solo considerably when you look at how it works at lvl 5.
At 211+ skill (which is easy to reach for RDM even on a non SCH sub), Bio3 reaches the 8/tick tier that BLMs and DRKs get. But at a duration of 2 min and 30 seconds, that totals 400 dmg/2:30 secs or 4800 dmg/30 minutes. That's a 33% increase over normal RDM Bio2 soloing, not even counting the initial damage which, in my experience, has usually landed for much more (usually for 120+ when unresisted) than Bio2 initial dmg. Another noteworthy thing people forget is that Bio means LESS stopping to cast (at lvl 5) than Bio2 soloing. Sure its only 12 casts per 30 min (Bio3) versus 15 casts (Bio2), but it allows you more breathing room to focus on other things. Lastly, at Lvl 5 Bio3 is more MP efficient than Bio2 so you also have that going for ya.

At the end of the day, for a solo RDM, lvl 5 Bio3 is a huge increase in solo capability for me and I am a big proponent of it. People like to compare it to BLM and DRK Bio2 and say its not much better but the comparison is completely moot. RDMs are great at soloing because of their staying power, and this why is why DOT method works so great for us, as its basically a war of attrition. Since when are BLMs and DRKs known for their dot solo capability? DRK, while viable, is not a great dot soloer. And BLM is more of a brute force soloer rather than dot. So comparing a RDMs Bio to these two, to me, has always been pointless, especially at endgame where I rarely see either of those jobs casting Bio2.

[Septimus]

Holy shit lol, why do these topics always end up with 2-3 pages of battles over diffrences of opinion..thx to the 1st page.. i can make my decision based on what i'll use it for in the future...but this may never end it seems..

Because the only real advice that we can get a consensus on is this:

"Shit is situational".

Even then, some people will still disagree.

[Hanyoko]

Really don't think it's worth the extra 5% defense down when most salvage group typically only have 2-3 melee on megaboss plus any experienced salvage group will be able to clear zone with Dia II only.

Phalanx II is really overrated in salvage. Only benefits party until BRD unlock magic i.e. there should be enough mp to keep melee going with storm fife ballad.

/shrug I like that extra 5% down during hundred fists. Or on the progoro madame so we have multiple layers of DoT durations on.

Our setup of jobs/merits allow us to kill every 35 dropping NM + boss with time to spare

Yes but protect4 won't help during counterstance And as i've said 5/5 is not needed for 1F salvage only, with 3/5 you are good and most of the damage will come from aoe dot (silversea for instance). And if you use whm, regen III will be as much efficient/better since it actually cures you.

But it will help untill the point where they can actually use conterstance, we often give the samurai ability first.
WHM is usually the last to get magic. Their just a tag along for boss wins.

Because the only real advice that we can get a consensus on is this:

"Shit is situational".

Even then, some people will still disagree.

Indeed!

*edit* I guess the best advice is to look at what you do, and what role you want to fill then build your merits to do it. And remember that most of the tier 2 enfeebles are very poor at low merits.

[Shalafi]

And remember that most of the tier 2 enfeebles are very poor at low merits.

So that's why SE raised the cap!

[Seraph]

Because the only real advice that we can get a consensus on is this:

"Shit is situational".

Even then, some people will still disagree.

The situational nature of shit is only as situational as people allow it to be.


...apparently.




Edit: Maybe "All shit is created situational... but some are more situational than others" would have been funnier.

[rowmark]

I have a question that is kind of on-topic ... why is Blind II considered to be garbage? My RDM is only lvl50, and I have limited "endgame" experience as a melee, so I am just curious. I read through the entire first page, and skimmed the second / third pages - but did not really see anything other then "it sucks!". I think someone mentioned it is basically the same as Kurayami: Ni - but why does that make it suck? Just wondering <help me out!>

[Tulun]

I have a question that is kind of on-topic ... why is Blind II considered to be garbage? My RDM is only lvl50, and I have limited "endgame" experience as a melee, so I am just curious. I read through the entire first page, and skimmed the second / third pages - but did not really see anything other then "it sucks!". I think someone mentioned it is basically the same as Kurayami: Ni - but why does that make it suck? Just wondering <help me out!>

Since it's not much of an improvement, why bother?

The other spells offer *so* much more, and you only have 10 points to spend.

So why waste it on a spell which will have virtually no effect? Most tanks don't eva tank (even nins sometimes just turtle in -dmg build), and if they do, Blind + Kura are both as effective for free.

[pchan]

Since it's not much of an improvement, why bother?

The other spells offer *so* much more, and you only have 10 points to spend.

So why waste it on a spell which will have virtually no effect? Most tanks don't eva tank (even nins sometimes just turtle in -dmg build), and if they do, Blind + Kura are both as effective for free.

blind is very usefull, having one merit is nice, and it lasts 5 min. How often do you have a nin ? How often can the nin land it ..

[Seraph]

blind is very usefull, having one merit is nice, and it lasts 5 min. How often do you have a nin ? How often can the nin land it ..

Oh boy. That 5% miss chance is now potentially a 6% miss chance. :-/

[Thorny]

blind is very usefull, having one merit is nice, and it lasts 5 min. How often do you have a nin ? How often can the nin land it ..

more importantly, how often do you care if it landed without a nin

[Raineer]

Oh boy. That 5% miss chance is now potentially a 6% miss chance. :-/

In a vacuum of non-blinded vs blinded, blinded is better.

There are many fights where I'm standing around doing nothing so why not blind Ouryu for the fuck of it lol. (not Blind II, mind you).

I'd like to hear more from Septimus on the improvement of Para 2 over Para (just guess at a proc increase percentage, I'll trust ya). When it first came out the improvement was widely shit upon, now more are preaching it.

[Seraph]

In a vacuum of non-blinded vs blinded, blinded is better.

There are many fights where I'm standing around doing nothing so why not blind Ouryu for the fuck of it lol. (not Blind II, mind you).

I'd like to hear more from Septimus on the improvement of Para 2 over Para (just guess at a proc increase percentage, I'll trust ya). When it first came out the improvement was widely shit upon, now more are preaching it.

I know, but from a Paladin perspective, Blind doesn't do shit unless it's on a mob too weak to matter. For Ninjas and Thieves in very specific situations (such as maybe Charby), Blind 2 might actually be effective.

[pchan]

I know, but from a Paladin perspective, Blind doesn't do shit unless it's on a mob too weak to matter. For Ninjas and Thieves in very specific situations (such as maybe Charby), Blind 2 might actually be effective.

Not every one tanks on pld, I personnally tank stuff on full usu monk. Even if blind II is accuracy -15 instead of -10, it's still an improvement which is 100% more usefull than, say, phalanx II on anything blinked.

[Seraph]

Not every one tanks on pld, I personnally tank stuff on full usu monk. Even if blind II is accuracy -15 instead of -10, it's still an improvement which is 100% more usefull than, say, phalanx II on anything blinked.

It's only useful if it actually causes a hit that would normally connect to miss. You are greatly overstating it's effectiveness for the vast majority of all situations. To really capitalize on it your tank would have to be in a full evasion build, which often sacrifices damage and hate control. All of the other RDM Tier 2 merits require no such setup on the part of the tank to make them more effective. I would pump a merit into Phalanx II way before I would ever do the same for Blind II. Even if you are blink tanking, Phalanx is potentially useful for spikes spells, AoE spells, etc.

[Raineer]

I actually wasn't arguing for Blind II, per se. I was just stating the obvious, in a vacuum, Blind II > Blind I > Nothing. That's really isn't a debate you can even argue >_>
You don't need to be evasion tanking a mob for Blind to have a positive influence on the situation.

Now, lets have more posts about Para 2 from people I can trust... lol