Shooting teens was like spilling milk

[pohibaba]

I hope he does get the Death Penalty.

That'll certainly make his victims come back to life.

[thestalkmore]

That'll certainly make his victims come back to life.

Get out.

[Neosutra]

Not trying to start anything, but how do we treat our soldiers like shit?

It seems like the Pros outweigh the Cons.

Poor family support.

Poor deployment support.

Poor post deployment counceling and debriefing.

Poor career development after military service. (This is a huge one).

Inadequate mental evaluation of soliders suffering from PTSD.

[FNH]

I am surprised none of the people from the greyhound decapitator thread have come in screaming he needs professional help and doesn't need the death penalty.

[Daimen-G]

Get out.

Are you telling him to get out because it's a shitfest argument that will get started, or because you're pro death penalty?

Because if you're pro death penalty, go fuck yourself

Poor family support.

Poor deployment support.

Poor post deployment counceling and debriefing.

Poor career development after military service. (This is a huge one).

Inadequate mental evaluation of soliders suffering from PTSD.

This is completely true. Soldiers returning from abroad get shit in the way of medical and psychiatric attention unless they get lucky and the media makes a story out of the way they get treated.

They have ridiculously high murder/suicide/domestic violence rates, and yet no one seems to care enough about them to foot the bill for their care. SUPPORT ARE TROOPS seems to go as far as giving them a rifle and getting them into hell, but they couldn't care less once the troops get back.

[Neosutra]

@FNH
I never said this guy didnt need the death penalty, I stated future actions like this can be avoided by treating our soliders better.

I dont believe in punishment just for reabilitation, I believe in punishment as a motivator for others not to do actions, so this man should recieve life w/o parole or the death penalty without a doubt, wether he is "mentally ill" or not.

I dont care if a mentally handicapped man beats my car with a bat, or a rocket surgeon beats my car with a bat, both of them are paying for the repairs. (Not that im condoning the death penalty for mentally handicapped people).

And yes Daimen, no one gives a shit about the troops after the country is done using them. My big concern is mostly with the suicide/domestic violence aspects, as this is what I deal with mostly.

[Dimmauk]

Are you telling him to get out because it's a shitfest argument that will get started, or because you're pro death penalty?

Because if you're pro death penalty, go fuck yourself



This is completely true. Soldiers returning from abroad get shit in the way of medical and psychiatric attention unless they get lucky and the media makes a story out of the way they get treated.

They have ridiculously high murder/suicide/domestic violence rates, and yet no one seems to care enough about them to foot the bill for their care. SUPPORT ARE TROOPS seems to go as far as giving them a rifle and getting them into hell, but they couldn't care less once the troops get back.

Its seems more people enjoy their time in the military. Some even make a career out of it. Some even use their experience in the Military in get a job. Not everyone comes out fucked in the head. I wonder if those people were already fucked up before the military?

[Devek]

I think the guy was just crazy and the military has nothing to do with it.

[Elvis]

At least 128 soldiers killed themselves last year, and the Army suicide rate surpassed that for civilians for the first time since the Vietnam War, according to Army statistics. The suicide count, which includes soldiers in the Army Reserve and the National Guard, is expected to grow; 15 deaths are still being investigated, and the vast majority of them are expected to be ruled suicides, Army officials said.

Interesting article in reference to recruitment/private contractors/etc.:

Why 10,000 Ugandans are eagerly serving in Iraq | csmonitor.com

As President Barack Obama announces plans to withdraw US troops from Iraq, thousands of young Ugandans are increasingly desperate to be sent to the war-torn country. Already, the Ugandan government says there are more than 10,000 men and women from this poverty-stricken East African nation working as private security guards in Iraq. Hired out to multibillion-dollar companies for hundreds of dollars a month, they risk their lives seeking fortunes protecting US Army bases, airports, and oil firms.

[...]More important, hiring Ugandans is cheap. Since the first Ugandans were sent to Iraq in late 2005, competition from other developing countries in Africa and the Indian subcontinent has seen the government cut the minimum wage from $1,300 to $600 a month. That compares with the $15,000 that one industry insider estimated an American guard could make each month. Nevertheless, competition is fierce, and for those Ugandans who land a job, Iraq can prove a bonanza.

[...]For Uganda, however, another country's war on a continent far away has proved to be lucrative. "The Iraq opportunity brings in about $90 million dollars, whereas our chief export, which is coffee, brings in around $60 or $70 million a year," says the former state minister for labor, employment, and industrial relations, Mwesigwa Rukutana, now minister of higher education. That figure is mostly made up of remittances.

[Neosutra]

Its seems more people enjoy their time in the military. Some even make a career out of it. Some even use their experience in the Military in get a job. Not everyone comes out fucked in the head. I wonder if those people were already fucked up before the military?

Wow, you really have no idea what you are talking about and should probably just stop.

The stresses and fatigues of combat dont return 100% of soldiers as broken people with huge mental disorders. Everyone deals with it in their own way, and the majority of people will go on to lead normal lives. That being said, the 10-20% that get back in not such great shape from having their wives leave them, their budies killed, and having to had personally kill other human beings, dont get the support they need.

But I guess since everyone doesnt have problems, we should just say fuck em right?

And while many employers like hiring formor military due to good work ethics, the techinical job training offered by the armed serves rarely transfer to direct civilian work (several fields do, many more do not: infantry, field artillery, most combat arms, etc).

We need significantly more post deployment counceling and support, as well as a completely re-invented family support core for our deployed soldiers. In addition, we need proper civilian handoff that helps put these people into jobs and provides adequate physical and mental health for our vets.

You're perception of the military and the people that go in/out, as well as the effects of post traumatic stress disorder is not only off, but it's fucking offensive.

[Kipling]

An Army of One. Go Army.

holy fuck I laughed ;(

[FNH]

I think the guy was just crazy and the military has nothing to do with it.

that's the way it is now, pass the blame from the person to something else. Not saying outside sources couldn't have had an impact, but the actor was ultimately to blame.

[Neosutra]

This isnt about placing the blame, it's about ensuring it doesnt happen again, and recognizing the causes that lead someone to this state of mind. Surely you understand that?

[Chen]

Are you telling him to get out because it's a shitfest argument that will get started, or because you're pro death penalty?

Because if you're pro death penalty, go fuck yourself

probably because he's implying that killing him is pointless as it won't help the dead people, rather than punishing him for his actions being the important part.

personally i don't mind the death penalty, but i figure it's a waste on this guy as he doesnt care, life in prison would imo be a worse punishment, 40-50 years of boredom/cell life worse than death, imo at least.

[pohibaba]

I think that most of you guys are correct: This guy almost certainly had mental problems before entering the military; this guy also did not receive the support he needed upon leaving the military. Both of those things can be correct. I think society has an obligation to provide whatever reasonable support we can to those who serve our country and protect our freedoms. I don't think we are currently living up to that obligation. With that said, what this guy did was sick and he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison mulling it over.

[Daimen-G]

probably because he's implying that killing him is pointless as it won't help the dead people, rather than punishing him for his actions being the important part.

personally i don't mind the death penalty, but i figure it's a waste on this guy as he doesnt care, life in prison would imo be a worse punishment, 40-50 years of boredom/cell life worse than death, imo at least.

The death penalty is an ineffective, draconian, and expensive punishment (more expensive than life in prison counting the appeals process), and if even one innocent man gets executed so that someone else can have their revenge, it wasn't worth it.

also no one is saying this guy shouldn't have been punished fnh

[pohibaba]

probably because he's implying that killing him is pointless as it won't help the dead people, rather than punishing him for his actions being the important part.

personally i don't mind the death penalty, but i figure it's a waste on this guy as he doesnt care, life in prison would imo be a worse punishment, 40-50 years of boredom/cell life worse than death, imo at least.

How is the death penalty ever a more appropriate punishment than life in prison? Do you honestly believe that an eye-for-an-eye ever solves anything?

[Chen]

pretty sure i said i didnt care about death penalty, if he gets life in prison or death penalty doesnt bother me. so don't get the idea that i want to go into prisons & shoot everyone cause that's stupid.

also i agree that if one innocent person gets the death penalty wrongly then it's certainly not worth it.

in this particular case this guy went out and shot a few kids, in the aim of attracting police men to shoot them then is practically taunting the families by saying he doesnt care at all. so -in this case- (no, not in general) i wouldnt care which punishment he gets, and like i said earlier, i think life in prision would be the best punishment for him cause you're stuck in a cell for most of your remaining life.

[Devek]

Ya, that is the biggest problem my friends had when coming back from overseas.

Risking your life for your country only to find out your wife was fucking a different guy each week is pretty hard. They even give the guys a talk before the come home that basically goes something like, "Every woman is a whore and your woman is probably no different. don't snap and kill someone/yourself when you find out."

Add kids to the mix, and bam.. worse than any anything they dealt with overseas.

[Kerberoz]

These people get married and have kids straight out of high school and are surprised their wives turn out to be whores?