Random Complaint Thread

[Keria]

This is the average pug dps on my server, and yes that is PVE gear.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...e+Feestgangers

[Plow]

Eh, a good mage or warlock will poly/snare or fear you until DP is off. Then you have to watch mana or you'll oom, and a frost mage can also keep you needing to spam cleanse really easily. No DP + cleanse spam = no damage done. Warlock is a similar deal, they'll kill you a tad faster and just need to remember to not let the pet be close enough to allow for DP refreshing when you go to drop it off them.

And while a healer can't kill a prot paladin, they need to mess up to be killed by one. Otherwise a prot paladin needs to be really lucky with RNG to kill a healer.

Now most people I find in a BG I can kill fine, but I've faced some people on occasion that have just destroyed me, be it in a BG or world PvP. I haven't done much arena since last season but from my understanding of the resil changes it only hurt prots ability to kill healers, when you already needed luck or a gear advantage in s7...

Trinket the first fear/poly and you've got close to a minute in which they can't cc you for long enough to drop DP.

Mages also kill WAY faster if you let it happen. With them your dispels prevent you dps'ing, with a lock your dispels prevent them dps'ing too. (which applies to a lesser extent to mages kiting, but I'm just talking directly here)

Now, granted, the resil nerf hurt a little bit. But not as much as the combination of 264+ dps gear and 2t10 helped. Currently I sit around 5.3 or 5.4k ap with just sanc.

Basically, all you have to do to kill a pally is make them use trinket and bubble, which isn't hard. Once that's done, you push them to where they need to holy shock, then HoJ (which should bug the shock if timed right), pop wings and zerg. Then time your shield as they come out of the hammer, they *should* be spamming shock on themselves. Lag the shield about 1/2 second before hammer breaks, 90%+ chance to lag the holy shock, which gives you ~ an additional 1.2 seconds after shield wears off that they will have to be casting since their instant is on CD.

For a priest it's even more simple, save your trinket for when they need to fear+hymn. Priest are the one healer that actually has mana limitations while being attacked, a class with undispellable infinite mana should not be having issues taking them down, though it will take time.

Druids and shaman yeah, they gotta blow it for you to have any chance whatsoever to kill them. Although a quick swap can take down an unprepared druid.


But yeah, the capability to kill healers is what got people looking at prot in the first place. In arena it's just crazy, especially when you add a hunter's absurd quick swap capability in 3's.

A prot pally and a hunter together requires very little more than surviving/keeping your own healer up while tunneling a dps, and then if it's something other than a mage, quick swapping to the healer once to get his trinket and cd's, then again 30 seconds later when they have nothing and we have everything again. If it's a mage you just stay on them and it's already basically a 2v3 before you cc their teammates.

I haven't fought anyone in a long time that I didn't feel I had at least an equal chance against 1v1, and I run into the top arena players around *all* the time, the ones you see in tourneys and shit, every single day, doing my daily bg.

Well yeah, good tanks don't have static gear, they adjust based on the demands of the encounter. That wasn't my point though, he specifically said that the 4 piece was mediocre and not to bother, which it clearly isn't.

It really is.

There's like a 1 in 5 chance that it even affected a hit you avoid *WHILE IT'S UP* in ICC.

Or you can take a proper setup and remain hit capped with big armor and EH advantages.


It's spiffy in the spots where it has unique usefulness (festergut, 10m Saurfang), otherwise it's not competitive with what you lose to gain it.

Let alone if you don't have 4 piece sanctified.

There's seriously no better way to describe it than mediocre. Have you seen druid and dk's?

The big problem with it, as with just about everything involving tanking these days, is that the heals are coming rather you avoid that 1 in 10 hits or not.

This is the average pug dps on my server, and yes that is PVE gear.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...e+Feestgangers

lol wow...

This is an average pug dps on Blackrock, who has a semi-regular 10 man group and no 25 man group, just does gdkp when he can...
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ckrock&n=winzz

In his offset tanking gear that's 99% just for doing daily heroic lol, he like never tanks raids.

[Eaglestrike]

I must not have access to nearly enough gear because a holy paladin with sacred shield can rather easily outheal my damage, I need to HoJ/AS to make them even consider bubbling, though it has been a while since I've done arena.

I'm not seeing the "big armor/eh" from non-tier gear. The difference is pretty negligible unless you're talking 251 t10 vs 264 EoF stuff. That I'll give you, but once it's all 264 the difference is quite minor between it all. And I don't like the EoF chest itemization.

[Plow]

I must not have access to nearly enough gear because a holy paladin with sacred shield can rather easily outheal my damage, I need to HoJ/AS to make them even consider bubbling, though it has been a while since I've done arena.

And what are they going to do in between, smack you with 500 dmg shield bashes and judge you to death?

HoJ #1 = trinket.

HoJ/AS #2 = Bubble

HoJ/AS #3 = gg

If we're talking arena it becomes even easier, because you force them to trinket in order to keep their partner alive and only have to switch to them twice instead of 3 times.

I'm not seeing the "big armor/eh" from non-tier gear. The difference is pretty negligible unless you're talking 251 t10 vs 264 EoF stuff. That I'll give you, but once it's all 264 the difference is quite minor between it all. And I don't like the EoF chest itemization.

Tier on hands, shoulders, and chest costs you 1 socket each.

Here's the raw EH comparison of 264 tier vs 264 better options:

Chest:
t10 gains 12 stam, loses 1 socket, gains 14 armor. So net loss of 18 stam, gain of 14 armor.

Hands:
t10 gains 12 stam, loses 1 socket. Net loss of 18 stam.

Shoulders:
t10 gains 12 stam, loses 1 socket. Net loss of 18 stam.

Legs:
t10 gains 12 stam, loses 1 socket, loses 1190(!!!!) armor. Net loss of 18 stam, 1190 armor.

Head:
t10 is better here, provided you don't need the hit.

Net loss of 2 piece vs 4 piece is always going to include at least 36 stamina, which is more valuable than the cd in nearly every fight. And that's assuming you're using pillars + the other 4, replace pillars and you've just made an incredibly terrible mistake.

It's not as bad of a comparison since they changed the t10, but it's still very, very mediocre when you put it in perspective. (especially with the perspecive of "holy fucking hell, look at what dk/druid get...)

And then when you consider the likelihood of spending an extended time period in 251... yeah, no comparison at all.

[Plow]

To put it quite simply, it's not guaranteed to do a damn thing.

To even get a reasonably high chance of gaining anything by having it, you need to be fighting a mob that's hitting pretty damn fast. Otherwise it's literally more likely to do nothing than to help.

[Meresgi]

Alliance are SO fucking bad at Isle of Conquest in my BG and Wintergrasp on my server...it's just beyond words. They zone into WG, rush to Sunken Ring, get a 1 kill promotion to rank 2 because of how outnumbered we are...and proceed to make 12-20 siege engines. Then watch as they are all destroyed before they even reach the eastern wall.


And they try this tactic...EVERY FUCKING GAME.

[Eaglestrike]

18 stam isn't guaranteed to do a damn thing either. This is probably my biggest gripe about how the community perceives tanking in this game. EH is the ONLY stat that means anything to them. I've survived on Festergut 25 just fine with almost no ICC gear whatsoever(I had Pillars of Might, Marrowgar10 weapon and t10 head I think?) going for socket bonus' on every piece of gear and using glyph of indom over heart of iron. Since then my gear has improved greatly and I'm now getting 5%*x health from the zone buff. My death is NEVER the cause of a wipe. We've had DPS concerns, we've had positioning issues, we've had people not knowing fight mechanics, me dying too fast has NOT ONCE caused a wipe in an ICC raid.

Despite that, people will put a tiny increase in EH over ANYTHING ELSE in the game for a tank. It's just stupid, if my healer gets out of range and I pop divine plea and evade two attacks so they can get back in range of me after old man hunter failed to get a kinetic bomb back up in time without dying I just saved the raid!

Now I'm not saying to gem/gear specifically for avoidance, but an extra oshit ability that requires you sacrifice so little is a good trade off.

Using wowhead item comparison:

t10-
36 Sta
11 Str
14 Armor
69 Dodge (1.75%)
45 Parry (0.91%)
61 Hit (1.86%)

EoF chest/gloves, gunship shoulders-
91 Defense (18.5)
82 Expertise (10)
3 Sockets

So it's what, 600-700 health for 1% avoidance, some strength and 12% dodge every minute? Yeah, 600-700 health is less of a loss than my gemming choices and I'm fine, I don't mind sacrificing it.

[Plow]

[23:02:35.393] Festergut hits Fox 35092 (A: 2413)
[23:02:35.675] Craige Beacon of Light Fox +19616
[23:02:36.151] Festergut hits Fox 43521
[23:02:37.084] Festergut hits Fox 2045 (O: 34576, A: 2413)

You were saying?

He had Ancestral Fortitude up, didn't get healed for <1.5 seconds, and died with 35k overkill.

EH is king because the heals *HAVE* to come or you get just utterly raped in the face.

The fact that the EH threshold is fairly easily surpassed in ezmodes, especially on an encounter that functions around cooldown chaining, doesn't change the end goals, nor how you should account for them as you prepare and move through the easy content.

It's simply not wise to go all out gearing for easy content when the gear for hard content will be more than sufficient to complete it, while the opposite is not true.

[Eaglestrike]

Going by that little snippet there you'd need 35k more EH to make a difference. I don't think 700 more health is going to do enough. And 12% more dodge might've saved him there!

It's simply impossible to survive 3 of those hits in a row, you need cooldowns active and/or lucky enough RNG to not take 3 in a row. It's not possible to have enough EH to survive 3 of those hits in a row, stam stacking or not.

[Norellicus]

If you're eating 40k hits from Festergut you're undergeared >.>

We hit 20k peaks

[Eaglestrike]

If you're eating 40k hits from Festergut you're undergeared >.>

We hit 20k peaks

Pretty sure that's heroic Festergut numbers.

[Norellicus]

Could be, didn't consider that heh :X

[Plow]

Yeah, that's heroic, with Ancestral Fortitude up. (10% dmg taken)

Point's not "oh enough EH would have saved you from that!" It's that in hardmodes, it's back to being all about EH. The numbers are batshit crazy, seriously. Arthas can make that log I posted look like pansy shit, and that's the hardest festergut ever hits and with just 1 mediocre cd. Blood Queen is about 70% of that log, full time, and on 2 targets.

[Dein]

Why is it that every time I go into Halls of Reflection as a dps I always end up tanking for the group? Every tank I've run into so far in this instance can't seem to control the waves worth a damn and often cause us to wipe before we even get to Falric because I can't even hit the mob they're focusing on without the cleave effect from SoComm grabbing hate on nearby mobs. I'm glad the Grinning Skull Boots dropped finally for my ret's set so I can stop farming the instance but I'd like to finish HoR for once as a dps when I qeue as one.

[Onorgul]

I have the same problem, Dein, and it's either because the tank is bad or the healer is bad, in general. As a Warrior, I can have trouble establishing aggro because DPS never wait 2 seconds and the mobs tend to arrive at a staggered pace, so I'm tossing everything I can just to get a decent threat lead before the AoE idiocy begins. Paladin tanks that I've run into seem to be terrible at even bothering to throw something at later arrivals and somehow forget they have Consecration, so Vampiric Embrace healing tends to get me gibbed if the healer doesn't bite it first. Death Knights are even worse. I've never actually had a Druid tank in HoR, but I imagine they suffer badly.

[Norellicus]

Druid doesn't do too badly but the lack of any kind of silence/interrupt makes the mages that run from the far side a pain in the ass.

[Dein]

Generally when I'm tanking HoR I throw up Consecration when DBM says that a wave is incoming and I sit myself in front of the DPS (who often huddle up so far into the corner of Falric's aclove that stuff aggro's them through the wall) to grab most of the mobs before they have a chance to hit anyone. Usually the biggest problem I have with DPS in HoR is that they'll ignore the kill order and I'll see a ranged DPS focusing on a Hunter or Mage while I'm fighting a Priest or Rogue.

[Meresgi]

Every time I go into HoR I find myself with a warrior tank who can't AoE tank at all...a paladin who never EVER fucking uses consecrate, or a DK who blows Death and Decay before the mobs are even spawned for the new wave. It's really not that hard of a place, but horrible tanks make it a living hell. I also like the tanks who face the footmen towards the group so you all get cleaved in the face.

[Quixotic]

GDKP toc25 decides to call it quits because OT fails at bringing adds to ice and then drops raid after everyone calls him out on it. Oh well, solace of the defeated+DV drop led to a decent pot anyways.

[Odon]

Come to Grizzly Hills. -.- We just had like 5 guilds transfer in over the past week (no joke) hoping to show us poor Hills-ians how it's done (and I know at least one of them came hoping to nab the Lich King realm first... joke's on them for that one, though). It's hilarious when you have over 50 guilds shouting daily that they're recruiting raiders. Truly, it is.

...then again, the Hills is about as backwater as you can get. I love it, personally, but some people get turned off by that. (The Lich King just died for the first time, on 10-man, like 5 hours ago. XD)

Just so you know people who transfer to a realm are ineligible for realm first achievements for 2 months from they day they get on the server

We had an issue with this when we got death's demise and a few members didn't get it