Random Complaint Thread

[Kenai]

Rogues are fine, in fact blizzard thinks they need more cooldowns.

Yea, they are giving them DR on stuns soon. It won't be much longer.

[Falaras]

Rogues are fine, in fact blizzard thinks they need more cooldowns.

The funny thing is that they don't need cooldowns to global my priest. Even after a perfect CC chain and all the CDs used they can still jump on him and kill him before I can blink. Generally they will open on him, I'll poly, they trinket and COS + Shadow Dance drop him to less then 10%, CoS drops off and we Poly -> Poly -> Fear -> Deep Freeze -> Frostbolt snare while trying to gain distance, Priest heals back up to 90%, as soon as he gets in range and all our CCs are on DR the priest falls over. This is not balanced in the least bit.
My partner is rated 2200 in 3s and has relentless weapon along with mainly full relentless with wrathful off pieces, so hes not exactly bad.

[Aesctaa]

Rogue CDs are pretty insane to be fair.

My complaint would be mages as an arms warrior though, blink being on shorter CD than charge, and so much CC.. makes it pretty gg.

If anyone has any solid strats to take on mages as warrior feel free to share!

[Inactive]

The funny thing is that they don't need cooldowns to global my priest. Even after a perfect CC chain and all the CDs used they can still jump on him and kill him before I can blink. Generally they will open on him, I'll poly, they trinket and COS + Shadow Dance drop him to less then 10%, CoS drops off and we Poly -> Poly -> Fear -> Deep Freeze -> Frostbolt snare while trying to gain distance, Priest heals back up to 90%, as soon as he gets in range and all our CCs are on DR the priest falls over. This is not balanced in the least bit.

If your priest is getting dropped to 10% in the opener, the rogue is either in full pve gear or your priest is. 800 resil seems pretty low considering my (4/5 furious 1/5 wrathful) priest had 1100 resil. You can either have your priest trinket KS > fear, if the rogues trinkets, he gets a full sheep, or he doesn't and you now have distance/slows. Your priest could also dispersion his cloak/dance then CC him after. Rogue teams are tough on priests, but any rogue who uses cloak offensively at the start against a double caster steam will get shit on. With the amount of CC and cooldowns you guys have, your priest should never die that quick.

[Falaras]

If your priest is getting dropped to 10% in the opener, the rogue is either in full pve gear or your priest is. 800 resil seems pretty low considering my (4/5 furious 1/5 wrathful) priest had 1100 resil. You can either have your priest trinket KS > fear, if the rogues trinkets, he gets a full sheep, or he doesn't and you now have distance/slows. Your priest could also dispersion his cloak/dance then CC him after. Rogue teams are tough on priests, but any rogue who uses cloak offensively at the start against a double caster steam will get shit on. With the amount of CC and cooldowns you guys have, your priest should never die that quick.

Like I said, even after a perfect CC chain, Dispersion, ect, the rogue can more or less global our priest. Not to mention with how fast the games are they can Prep -> CoS after using the first cloak and completely rape the priest in that four seconds. I bet they are using full PvE gear but considering there's no way we can do any damage to that rogue it doesn't matter. I don't do enough damage to drop a rogue between CoS's, with or without a healer, and the rogue does do enough to drop my priest between CC's.

It's pretty funny considering the teams with rogues are actually pretty terrible, they don't CC at all and things like Disc healers usually don't even DPS or fuck even dispel sheep, but it just straight up doesn't matter because training the shadow priest is a guaranteed win.

[Ohaigaiz]

cloak doesn't get reset with prep

[Inactive]

Sounds like you aren't managing your CD's or something. Because if after the rogue uses KS, cloak, Dance, trinket, and potentially a vanish to reopen and you guys have nothing left then yea you will lose. Don't get sapped, and stick near your priest so when the rogue opens you can nova > deepfreeze forcing a trinket and giving you guys some breathing room. A shielded priest can survive a CS > KS opener from a rogue with no cooldowns, with your peels theres no reason he should die. ESPECIALLY if the rogue blows cloak at the start offensively, he shouldn't come in contact with your priest again until the next cloak is up.. if he lives that long

[Falaras]

Sounds like you aren't managing your CD's or something. Because if after the rogue uses KS, cloak, Dance, trinket, and potentially a vanish to reopen and you guys have nothing left then yea you will lose. Don't get sapped, and stick near your priest so when the rogue opens you can nova > deepfreeze forcing a trinket and giving you guys some breathing room. A shielded priest can survive a CS > KS opener from a rogue with no cooldowns, with your peels theres no reason he should die. ESPECIALLY if the rogue blows cloak at the start offensively, he shouldn't come in contact with your priest again until the next cloak is up.. if he lives that long

I use invisible to avoid sap and nova as soon as the priest is opened on, force a trinket -> CoS -> Shadowdance Ambush spam drops the priest to below 10%. CC chain to let my priest heal back up to full and then after that our cooldowns are blown, as well as theirs, but it just straight up doesn't matter because the priest is getting 100-0'd in one stunlock while Sheep is on DR. The problem is Shadow Priest survivability comes from VE heals, and its pretty ridiculous how much they get from it, and getting DoTs on any target (let alone one that can cloak it off) with a melee on you is nigh impossible. Then it gets even worse when the other player is a priest where if you DoT them up they just dispel it all. Believe me we have tried everything. And coming in contact with the priest isn't a problem with Shadowstep...

[Inactive]

Form the scenario you just gave your priest still has trinket, fear, PH, and you have deepfreeze. The rogue has no trinket, no cloak, and blew dance so his burst is gone. Keep both SWP and plague on the rogue and he can't restealth. I can't see how you are losing with those odds. The next kidney can be trinket, or deepfrozen and since deepfreeze has the same CD as kidney shot there isnt any way for the rogue to lock down the priest.

[Falaras]

Form the scenario you just gave your priest still has trinket, fear, PH, and you have deepfreeze. The rogue has no trinket, no cloak, and blew dance so his burst is gone. Keep both SWP and plague on the rogue and he can't restealth. I can't see how you are losing with those odds. The next kidney can be trinket, or deepfrozen and since deepfreeze has the same CD as kidney shot there isnt any way for the rogue to lock down the priest.

Do you think when I say CC chain I just mean "Sheep chain"? I mean full blown Sheepx3 Deep Freeze Fearx2. Its not like a Spriest can just drop 1 cleanse and a Holy Light and be back to full, when you are down to 3k health it takes quite a bit of time to get back up especially with wound poison and trying to get distance while running at 50% speed. Not to mention trinketing the KS before shadowdance ambush spam so hes down a trinket.

[Inactive]

I know it takes priest longer than 1 heal to top off, but it doesnt take 15 secs worth of sheeps plus 5 sec deepfreeze and 2 fears either. The priest can use fade to get rid of crippling poison, toss 2 heals, PoM, renew and go back on the offensive. Shadowstep or not a fully dotted rogue eating frostbolts with no cloak shouldn't have an easy time staying on the priest. Rogue are annoying, but far from these unstoppable killing machines people make them out to be

[Falaras]

I know it takes priest longer than 1 heal to top off, but it doesnt take 15 secs worth of sheeps plus 5 sec deepfreeze and 2 fears either. The priest can use fade to get rid of crippling poison, toss 2 heals, PoM, renew and go back on the offensive. Shadowstep or not a fully dotted rogue eating frostbolts with no cloak shouldn't have an easy time staying on the priest. Rogue are annoying, but far from these unstoppable killing machines people make them out to be

Yes, 2 greater heals will top the priest off and keep the rogue from killing him without even stunlocking, brilliant. There is no offensive, the Rogue does so much damage in such a short amount of time we can't do anything to counter other then defense. Heck the best strategy we have had was Dot up the rogues partner and sacrifice our shadow priest to hope to kill the partner, and even that didn't work.
Not to mention to "go on the offensive" the Spriest has to put up multiple dots and then start using casted spells. Its not like they can just Heal up and suddenly kill the rogue. Fade has a what 30 second cooldown, once the rogue gets on the priest (via shadowstep) no amount of frostbolts in the world are going to keep him from killing his target. Double sprints, double vanishes, Shadowstep, crippling poison, deadly throw, rogues can stick on a target if they want to.

[Eaglestrike]

Yes, 2 greater heals will top the priest off and keep the rogue from killing him without even stunlocking, brilliant. There is no offensive, the Rogue does so much damage in such a short amount of time we can't do anything to counter other then defense. Heck the best strategy we have had was Dot up the rogues partner and sacrifice our shadow priest to hope to kill the partner, and even that didn't work.
Not to mention to "go on the offensive" the Spriest has to put up multiple dots and then start using casted spells. Its not like they can just Heal up and suddenly kill the rogue. Fade has a what 30 second cooldown, once the rogue gets on the priest (via shadowstep) no amount of frostbolts in the world are going to keep him from killing his target. Double sprints, double vanishes, Shadowstep, crippling poison, deadly throw, rogues can stick on a target if they want to.

Fade is a 24s cooldown when spec'd for it. You can add on a glyph to make it a 15s cooldown too.

Try this sometime: When rogue opens, trinket KS -> Psychic Scream -> SW (to protect from a priest dispel). As that happens, cast Polymorph(glyphed for DoT removal?). Ideally he trinkets fear and gets sheeped instantly. If this happens open on the rogue, get DoT's on and start frostbolting(frostbolt rogue once, poly his partner after, force the rogue defensive). This will require him to use Sprint and/or CoS and/or Shadowstep.
If Shadowstep - Psychic Horror -> fade to remove crippling, frostbolt to snare.
If CoS - Dispersion -> Poly/nova once it's over.

Move away, get some DoT's up and GG, vanish doesn't remove DoT's, rogue can't vanish.

If the rogue goes to LoS and reset, get on his partner, stay in combat, dispersion when the rogue opens again, he'll have to asap to save his partner. But he'll need to have used CoS to remove DoT's, so you can sheep and/or fear him.

If this strat never works for you, go for a poly right off the bat instead of trinketing KS. If you're not sapped.

Remember that Vampiric Touch has a form of dispel protection, it does big damage if it's dispelled, so whenever possible, get that up.

Also remember to spellsteal the rogue to get shadow protection off of him and when you can spare it keep abolish disease off of him. It takes two globals to dispel the priest DoT's as long as abolish disease cannot tick, and two globals to put them on, with 100% hit rate and 30% dispel resist you should win that.

And finally, ice lance the rogue on any other globals to stack Winter's Chill. It's the most annoying dispel protection in the game. 40% chance to resist dispel and 5 stacks of it. It almost always eats one of the dispel attempts (of the priests 2) from my experience and with frostbolt, SW, VT and Winter's chill dispel should mostly be a waste of mana.

[Krye]

Consider the fact that I can run with 1600 resil using double 2-set bonus, only one resilience trinket. and no resilience gems. Then ask yourself again why your 800 resil priest partner is getting raped.

[Falaras]

Fade is a 24s cooldown when spec'd for it. You can add on a glyph to make it a 15s cooldown too.

Try this sometime: When rogue opens, trinket KS -> Psychic Scream -> SW (to protect from a priest dispel). As that happens, cast Polymorph(glyphed for DoT removal?). Ideally he trinkets fear and gets sheeped instantly. If this happens open on the rogue, get DoT's on and start frostbolting(frostbolt rogue once, poly his partner after, force the rogue defensive). This will require him to use Sprint and/or CoS and/or Shadowstep.
If Shadowstep - Psychic Horror -> fade to remove crippling, frostbolt to snare.
If CoS - Dispersion -> Poly/nova once it's over.

Move away, get some DoT's up and GG, vanish doesn't remove DoT's, rogue can't vanish.

If the rogue goes to LoS and reset, get on his partner, stay in combat, dispersion when the rogue opens again, he'll have to asap to save his partner. But he'll need to have used CoS to remove DoT's, so you can sheep and/or fear him.

If this strat never works for you, go for a poly right off the bat instead of trinketing KS. If you're not sapped.

Remember that Vampiric Touch has a form of dispel protection, it does big damage if it's dispelled, so whenever possible, get that up.

Also remember to spellsteal the rogue to get shadow protection off of him and when you can spare it keep abolish disease off of him. It takes two globals to dispel the priest DoT's as long as abolish disease cannot tick, and two globals to put them on, with 100% hit rate and 30% dispel resist you should win that.

And finally, ice lance the rogue on any other globals to stack Winter's Chill. It's the most annoying dispel protection in the game. 40% chance to resist dispel and 5 stacks of it. It almost always eats one of the dispel attempts (of the priests 2) from my experience and with frostbolt, SW, VT and Winter's chill dispel should mostly be a waste of mana.

This is some pretty good advice and no I don't Glyph for Poly but if it works I guess I'll try it. It's not like we really have the opportunity to build up momentum like that though, I know a Rogues ambush hits me for something around 8k crit so if he trinkets my initial poly -> CoS -> Ambush Ambush Ambush that can be a total of 24k damage which is almost enough to kill the priest straight out.

@kryee And its not like its normal to be running around with 1600 Resil, he still needs to do some damage. All I know is he uses Relentless Weapon/Offhand/Wand, Mainly full relentless with Wrathful offpieces, 1 PVE piece, and DFO/SP WG trinket. I don't think its wrong for him to gear offensively, in matches where we don't fight rogues his damage output is usually around five times mine which is why I don't mind his gear.

[Eaglestrike]

This is some pretty good advice and no I don't Glyph for Poly but if it works I guess I'll try it. It's not like we really have the opportunity to build up momentum like that though, I know a Rogues ambush hits me for something around 8k crit so if he trinkets my initial poly -> CoS -> Ambush Ambush Ambush that can be a total of 24k damage which is almost enough to kill the priest straight out.

Dispersion is -90% damage, it's pretty useful for countering things like CoS Shadowdance

And really, what I posted is what you need to be able to do in the fly to be good at PvP. Granted, if you can pull off those reactions and maneuvers perfectly you're probably 2400+ capable.

[Falaras]

Dispersion is -90% damage, it's pretty useful for countering things like CoS Shadowdance

And really, what I posted is what you need to be able to do in the fly to be good at PvP. Granted, if you can pull off those reactions and maneuvers perfectly you're probably 2400+ capable.

I realize Dispersion is a counter to CoS shadowdance but we also can't build up any momentum when dispersed, then once its over it just goes back to raping the priest. I know I'm not 2400 capable, I'm not 2000 capable, I've never even arenad on my mage before this week. I was just complaining about the fact that my partner can get blown up so easily and there's very little to nothing I can do to prevent it.

[Krye]

Watch this if you want to know how to handle rogues

http://vimeo.com/9201587

[Falaras]

Argument over, now we will never lose to a rogue again thanks to that video.

[Krye]

You have to listen to that music while you fight the rogues though